I'm not new to Sk at all, but I've always wondered something. Most swords do half and half Normal and Elemental or Shadow. But it seems that every piercing sword does Pure Piercing. It's not a special event or DLC weapon like the Rocket Hammer that does pure elemental (And came out MUCH later). Most swords do half and half to make them do decent damage to even enemies that are resistant to the secondary half. Was this pure piercing damage put in to balance Fiends? It's just always seemed very odd to me and wanted to know if anybody knew the reason.
What's up with Piercing swords?
Thu, 08/15/2013 - 10:26
Thu, 08/15/2013 - 11:19
#2
Danke, Kamerad!
Thanks, Bopp.
Actually my theory was that the Piercing sword would be INEFFECTIVE towards fiends if it was slpit with normal, I'll have to clear that up next time. Also I acknowledged in my post that the Rocket Hammer came WAY after.
Thu, 08/15/2013 - 11:59
#3
ah
Hmm. Fiends are certainly the hardest family, and the buffing of greavers and the addition of the gorgonzolas (my name for them anyway) does not help. So it did make sense to have a really strong weapon made for them. Maybe that's why the first stroke was long, wide, and fairly fast. That was my favorite sword stroke in the whole game. Now that it's shorter, it's not nearly as powerful.
Yes, I know that you already knew the thing about WRH. :)
Thu, 08/15/2013 - 13:08
#4
I can try to pour some "videogame logic" on it.
All the other swords are just normal swords that simply hit hard, much like a calibur, but infused with elemental or shadow powers.
Thus they deal normal damage as part of the physical impact and 'magic' together.
A piercing sword... píerces with it's pointy tip. It doesn't have the blunt force to cause normal damage.
It's silly, probably not true, but it would make sense if the first swing of the flourishes wasn't a sweep :v
Thu, 08/15/2013 - 14:42
#5
first stroke
The first stroke makes sense, if you think about the razor-sharp tip of the sword slashing the enemies. This is basically the kind of sword that Zorro uses. Famously he cuts a Z into his enemies with those slashes.
On the other hand, there's no way the sword should be knocking back anything, or chopping minerals at all.
Thu, 08/15/2013 - 16:33
#6
Thu, 08/15/2013 - 18:32
#7
Normal and Piercing are the "physical" damage types. Elemental and Shadow are the "energy" damage types.
Projectiles and explosions can deal whatever they please, but physical attacks must be at least part Normal or Piercing.
All weapons and monsters follow this rule.
Thu, 08/15/2013 - 20:59
#8
Bopp knows a lot about piercing swords because she studies them in the lab.
Fri, 08/16/2013 - 03:27
#9
I imagine it was to balance out the sword being faster and longer-reaching than other swords. Split damage is purely an advantage in the current implementations of it.
Fri, 08/16/2013 - 04:21
#10
One thing I can't understand
One thing I can't understand with the piercing swords is the combo.
With swords which are essentially fencing swords, the first strike should not injure at all because of the nature of the sword(long and thin, and only sharp at the tip, which even the models reflect). You are meant to stab, not slice. You'd end up slapping enemies with the sword the way swing one is.
Thus being said, the swords first swing should do a lot less damage than it currently does or should simply be changed to a stab, like the 2nd and 3rd swings do.
Fri, 08/16/2013 - 05:21
#11
Knight logic
@Bzzts
The slash would allow you to slice at someone, but only if you could get your target at the perfect range to hit with the tip. Still, The whole Animation for the rapier-like weapons is kinda strange and abit jumpy compared to other animations. Just don't wear a Rose chapeau with it. Your feather freaks out.
Fri, 08/16/2013 - 05:55
#12
it's funny
Just don't wear a Rose chapeau with it. Your feather freaks out.
It's funny that piercing swords and those chapeau-tabard costumes arrived at exactly the same time, as a unified "three musketeers" design element. They're supposed to be perfect for each other.
Fri, 08/16/2013 - 07:51
#13
Yup, I remember the
Yup, I remember the post.
Become a Knight of the Rose, a sacred order of brave and especially dashing heroes whose numerous adventures are the subject of many folk tales. The Knights of the Rose were said to be peerless fencers, believing that their blades were like the flowers of their name: a delicate thing of beauty that hides a vicious sting.
If you've recently acquired a flourish sword, the Rose Regalia items are an excellent match!
And we get a weapon with a jerky stab animation and a feather with spaz attacks. Nice job, OOO.
Fri, 08/16/2013 - 07:59
#14
@Bzzts
The most common type of fencing swords, foils, are used only for thrusting because that's how the scoring system works. They use a electrical circuit system that is only activated when the button at the end of the blade is depressed. HoweverRapiers (aka actual swords, not sporting equipment) have sharp blades, so you can still slash with one. It's not as effective as stabbing, but it's not impossible.
Fri, 08/16/2013 - 08:03
#15
response again
And we get a weapon with a jerky stab animation and a feather with spaz attacks. Nice job, OOO.
I don't know much about the feather --- I'm not into fancy costumes and accessories --- but I like the sword. One of the best features of Spiral Knights is how there are various kinds of weapons, that actually feel different to the player through the keyboard and mouse. I'm glad that the piercing swords have a different attack pattern from other 3-stroke swords.
Fri, 08/16/2013 - 08:16
#16
Unique stabbing
I'm not saying it's bad. The rapier style swords are probably some of my favorite. I was just saying it looks abit jerky. that might just be an illusion from the feather and flowing cloth of the Tabard.
Fri, 08/16/2013 - 08:18
#17
Thanks for the info! :')
I put down pretty much all I knew about that type if sword, but from what you're saying, the power of the first strike really ought to be lowered to reflect how the real sword would work?
Just that some people almost exclusiveLynn use the first swing because of the range AND power. Would help balance the sword.
It's a good question. I don't know the answer. Here are some random remarks:
Piercing swords are weird in other ways. For example, most swords let you run at full speed while charging, or give you a big penalty (about 20%) to speed. But piercing swords give you a medium penalty of about 10%.
Piercing swords were introduced long before Warmaster Rocket Hammer. Sometime in 2012 (if I recall correctly) the range of the piercing swords' strokes were downgraded from long (as long as DA/GF/Suda/Trig) to medium or short --- presumably due to complaints about Lockdown.
As you probably know, damage calculations at the high end are a bit counterintuitive, in that split normal+special swords do just as much damage as a pure special sword would. (See this classic analysis for example. Nowadays, Zeddy and his friends have a deeper understanding of why this should be.) So it's not that a pure piercing sword is better against vulnerable monsters than a normal+piercing sword would be. Rather, a pure piercing sword is just worse against resistant monsters than a normal+piercing sword would be.
So your theory is that these swords were made pure piercing, to balance the fact that they were "too" effective against fiends? That's reasonable. My only complaint is that the range downgrade makes them much less effective against fiends than they used to be.