Spiral Knights - Healing weapon maybe? And other ideas. READ READ ^

Healing weapon maybe? And other ideas. READ READ ^_^

20 replies [Last post]

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 16:46

Arzyg

I did a thread on this in general discussions, but realized it best fits in the suggestions section.

I vote to have some type of bomb or sword like the menders that allows a player to heal themselves and party members. The monsters damage is so high I think that would balance the field.

For one, the enemy side has those ridiculous menders as I said and those annoying heal fairys. I am entirely positive that people are spending so much energy at deeper levels because they just die wayy too fast, if you fail to block once, half your health disappears. Heart capsules and health capsules don't drop nearly as much as they should to sustain a full group. Why is it that monsters do abhorrent amounts of damage? Even when I have full 4 star 8 heat armour? I am trying to see the good in Three Rings, make me believe you still care about your players. I have played soo many MMORPGs and each time I left because they ended up after the money and not the general satisfaction of their players. You have an opportunity here for something really great.

I appreciate the Auction house update, it has made trading a lot easier. Now how about you making it a little easier to survive long enough to find things to trade without so much loss on the part of us players? :) Take my suggestions seriously please. I believe they would make our population a lot happier.

Here are some options:

1. Dial down enemy damage a bit, the game becomes tedious when the monsters are ripping away at us with attacks coming from so many directions. blocking is just not adequate.

2. Dial up the health restoring drops OR reduce revive costs, it would really help. We spend so much energy on Alchemy that you guys could at least meet us half way and make somethings easier. Must I question your humanity? I sense Spiral Knights heading towards a singularity and not the good kind, but you all can easily change that.

3. And Finally, consider implementing a Healing weapon/bomb thing. Since you can materialize an auction house and training arena, I don't doubt you could find a way to make it happen. It really wouldn't detract from the game at all. A new branch of Alchemy and recipes would also benefit you, no?

Work with me here Three Rings Ent. I would help in any way I can to see one of these suggestions happen. Heck, I'll beta test anything you want even.

So fellow Spiral Knights and Three Rings staff. I'd love to see your thoughts... even if you want to flame me :D

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 17:04

Madadder

hmmmm so in other words

hmmmm so in other words reduce the difficulty and reduce the need for health capsules? no

its always been part of games where the enemies get the good stuff: more health, more armor, more reinforcements, more healing, more damage. you're just trying to remove all challenge from the game.

the healing weapon alone BREAKS the game as it will become the de-facto secondary weapon that knights must carry and its even better for those renting more weapon slots

now how about a group healing capsule? or maybe a regeneration based heal? that would be better. as for monster damage learn to block and control your enemy

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 17:17

Arzyg

I love the group healing

I love the group healing capsules thing that's awesome! :O. As I said these are all suggestions. A starting point for something maybe that would increase survivability for all. And yea, enemy control is difficult, especially because 80% of the time (if not more) we are around obstacles and traps that also eat away at our health... that brings up another point... Humor me.

Why don't the enemies get hurt on the traps I mean I understand the flying ones not hindered by grounded traps and fire elementals not hurt by fire .etc but as for the rest, let em have it! We have so little room to work with as it is. Can you disagree? lol

I just wanna see something drastic done because the damage/defense ratio is just whack to me.

I still stick to my suggestions tho. Also, Breaks the game? They already broke it, from what I hear... might as well melt the pieces and do something with em xD hahaha. All jokes aside. Player survivability is my main concern, it needs to be looked at, for real.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 17:53

sushi247

Legacy Username

Yes please

I love the idea for a healing 'weapon.' As a player who is prone to zoning out and/or lagging horribly, let me tell you how one mistake can make you dead. Forking over energy after lagging is rather depressing, IMO. A simple remedy would be healing weapons. It could be a gun that heals one bar of HP per shot. A more expensive AoE-heal bomb could be implemented. These would take the place of other weapons, and players who want a gun, sword, and healing item would have to pay for an extra weapon slot. If soloing becomes an issue (I dunno how, just throwing it out there), make it so you can't heal yourself.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 19:23

aeolianmode

Legacy Username

Healing weapons will never,

Healing weapons will never, ever happen. That would completely break the revival system, which is in place to punish reckless players (and of course, intended to be an energy sink.) Group healing caps, or perhaps healing vials, would not be a bad idea.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 20:10

Dwelkin

A healing weapon encourages camping out and healing to full after every group of enemies. It would slow down the game a lot, and also remove the tension between having to kill enemies in danger rooms to get them to drop hearts/capsules and not getting hit in the meantime. Even without considering the economy, it would be terrible design and I'm glad it's not in the game.
Also it would make Vanaduke completely doable! For that alone they will probably not do it :)

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 21:01

Aliencereal

Legacy Username

I just got to tier 3 today

Just got to tier 3 today and wow! I love how this game is difficult and requires serious skill, but you've got a point. Monsters hurt! and having a healer in a party would be cool. I don't want to have classes of course like every other MMORPG. But healing gear would be awesome! A party with: One bomber, Sworder/gunner, Sworder/gunner.... and then bam! A medic! oh it would be great. Especially cause I would enjoy healing other players. I think how deaths and revives are should stay the same though. I hope 3 rings reads this stuff! ( After they fix the mess right now ;) )

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 21:11

Madadder

@Aliencereal tsk tsk yet

@Aliencereal

tsk tsk yet another person falls victim to the holy trinity of tank, dps, heals....

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 21:15

Daystar

Legacy Username

If healing weapons were

If healing weapons were added, they would have to function like this:

Make it so that you can only heal recently taken damage. When you get hit, the health is "lost" in purple (or another color), kind of like now, except it stays purple for about 10 seconds. After 10 seconds, it actually empties. Within those 10 seconds though, you can be healed for the amount you lost. If you get hit by more than one attack before you're healed, it cuts the previous healable amount in half (so you can't be fully healed if you lose all your health within 10 seconds).

A healing sword might be odd, but I can definitely see a "heal ray" or aoe "healing gas bomb." They would have to be very slow shots/charge times to avoid making it spammy, but not so slow that you couldn't actually function as a healer in combat. There could also be ones that have a chance to clear status effects.

Overall I think this is a good idea. It might take some tweaking to balance right, but it would add another level of complexity to the game.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 22:42

Arzyg

I have seen games where the

I have seen games where the enemy AI will focus on the healers if they are healing (like when we try to kill the menders and fairys first) If they do implement some type of healing weapon or something. Programming the AI to chase after the player healing would keep that challenging aspect in the game, I think.

I did Vanaduke for the first time today we had to revive 3 times, spent quite a bit of energy between the 4 of us. I also noticed the boss rooms have like no breathing room deady obstacles, respawning boxes, enemy hordes... it's enough to drive someone mad, the level designers are MAD hahaha it's really exciting though. I am just asking for a way that would help us save energy for something more useful. New recipes(i.e Alchemy) would also make Three Rings some profit as well (which is obviously their main objective now).

@aeolianmode: It would not break anything, no one is perfect and parties are still gonna die, the levels are ridiculous enough to ensure that the deeper you go. This concept is entirely possible, it just needs someone who knows what their doing to do the math. LOL x)

Everything can stay the same, like @Daystar said.. it would just involve a little tweaking here and there of all the games mechanics (I know, easier said than done). Personally I don't wanna rain on my own parade, but Three Rings might just see this as too troublesome. The game is OK the way it is...Playable and even enjoyable at certain times, but I am being a realist here and know that spending all this energy all the time to revive is insane. Putting a little bit of the control in the players hands goes a looong way.

I guarantee the population will be much happier. Happy players will definitely find ways to spend energy. They will want to play longer because they can go deeper a bit easier now (buying energy to bypass the 100 a day limit). Especially with Alchemy as high as it is and people who cant use real cash using crowns to buy energy to preform their own alchemy. I just see the positives here.

Now that I think about it... this would probably solve more than one problem this game has hehehehehe. x)

Thu, 05/19/2011 - 00:46

#10

Ufana

I think the only way to do

I think the only way to do this without screwing it up would be weapons / status effects that make it more likely for mobs to drop hearts. And reduce overall heart drop rate. This should make things stay about the same except that players will have some control over WHEN hearts will be more likely to drop.

- Maybe just add this mechanism to the poison status effect to make those weapons a little bit more useful.
- Or pick some random weapons to make new variants. Like p.E.: leeching vortex - does no damage, +20% hearts from things that die inside it.

Thu, 05/19/2011 - 03:31

#11

Fallout

this was suggested AAAAAGES

this was suggested AAAAAGES ago, and a dev stated how it would be a game breaker and that they would not implement it. and i agree it would be a game breaker.

Thu, 05/19/2011 - 10:31

#12

Arzyg

Yea, fair enough

Yea, fair enough. I guess we will all just have to stick with the certain terminals where our equipment Pwns, or go in with really well suited teams (demo experts and such).

Still, for the love of God and all that is good in the world, give us more love in the clockworks, more more more heart drops! D: Maybe some pills that increase physical and elemental defense for a whole floor or something. <333333333333333333

Thu, 05/19/2011 - 15:43

#13

cheeserito

Legacy Username

I don't think an AoE healing

I don't think an AoE healing haze bomb would be game breaking if implemented correctly.

Basically- have a reeeeeeaaaallllly looooooong charge time before being able to plant it, and have a cool down period of at least 60 seconds before being able to plant another one. And then, of course, the blast only lasts 3 seconds, and will only heal 3-4 bars in that time. That way, if you're really hurting for health, someone could smack down a healing bomb and get every one back from 1/2 a health. Even if 4 people in a party all dedicated a weapon slot to it, if they seriously wanted to all plant one at the same time it would be a full heal (and in most cases unnecessary). But it would also leave every player in that party with only 1 weapon (unless they purchase more weapon slots- which costs CE!) to deal with all the baddies.

Also, I think the person using the bomb should be able to walk around slightly quicker if charging the bomb (reverse of the graviton bomb/vortex) because: if they get slowed down instead, they'll never be able to plant the bomb, enemies are simply too quick (basically they'll end up dead if there's combat going on), and that's what healers tend to do anyway. Gremlin menders get to plant their little circle of healing quickly and dodge the hell out of there.

The bomb, from a bombing perspective, would be horribly inefficient. But it would be oh-so helpful. And it lends itself to people still being able to die, and there's the added benefit of people wanting to capitalize on more weapon slots (250 CE per, if I'm not mistaken).

I know that the devs have said that they never intended on making a "healing class", per se, but as an avid Cleric player, I would LOVE to see just one healing weapon, and will continue to support every suggestion of making healing items (simply because I think that the healing haze bomb sounds like the greatest thing ever, while still being balanced). ; u ;

Thu, 05/19/2011 - 15:48

#14

Elegies

Legacy Username

A healing gun could be fun,

A healing gun could be fun, to go along with the idea of "gunslinger priests." Each shot replenishes a heart, long reload time or something, would be tough to balance but not impossible. And it would be fun to target friends with a weapon. Let's be honest. Lol.

Thu, 05/19/2011 - 16:37

#15

Panache

why has no one recommended or

why has no one recommended or mentioned the idea of vampiric weapons or something similar? The other option would be to have healing "weapons" use energy when you use them, and or have a limit per level...

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 07:15

#16

Pawn

I like status resist boosts

Right now gameplay isn't deep enough to have healing 'class' weapons IMO. I don't think the strategy of battle really lends itself to that, since it's pretty much block here, hit there, and kiting any and everything is a breeze.

On the other hand being able to get a temporary boost to fire/ice/pierce/etc resist would be cool and not gamebreaking. Maybe tie it into the alchemer guns somehow so that guns get a boost to their utility. Someone in the part with a fire alchemer has a 2nd charge attack that allows them to shoot teammates giving additional fire resist. Something like that.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 18:36

#17

Panache

If i was to add extra

If i was to add extra resists, i definitely would use opposite elements, so Earth gives ice resist, ice gives fire resist, energy resists sleep... you know

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 06:40

#18

Gigafreak

Legacy Username

The game was intentionally

The game was intentionally designed so that you have a limited amount of health per stratum. Any and all healing must come from hearts (which you must fight for), health capsules (which you must also fight for), or the health generators at the end of an Arena round (which you must fight a LOT for). Energy Revives are the only way to get around the "fight for your health" rule, and that's why it costs a much more important resource.

A source of unlimited healing would simply remove a huge amount of the risk in venturing into a Danger Room or Arena, for example: If there are just TWO people alive, one can shield-push the last monster while the other heals up for revives, and then heals up the whole party before you destroy the last one and call in the next wave. A large amount of the game design was balanced around the limited-health model.

You can cosplay a Mender with the Magic Cloak set and the Wrench Wand though.

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 09:09

#19

eclipse5632

Legacy Username

I was talking about the idea

I was talking about the idea of healing weapons with a friend and he suggested some sort of bomb that leeches HP from enemies. It doesn't have to be like this, but he said that there could be two areas of effect -- an inner, smaller circle and a larger, outer circle -- and enemies in one area would be hurt while players in the other area would be healed (proportional to how much damage was dealt). This gets around the problem of people just spamming it after every set of enemies (since they won't get healed unless there are enemies in the right AOE) and makes it so it takes a bit of skill and positioning to use, even compared to other bombs. Though, instantiating a temporary health system like Daystar mentioned as well might not be a bad idea, since overuse of this bomb could still lead to broken-ness. Only being able to heal a half, or maybe even a quarter of the last amount of damage you took would be a good way to regulate the use of this item. Also, this weapon obviously wouldn't deal a whole lot of damage since its primary purpose is just to heal up a bar or two.

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 09:17

#20

takezo

Legacy Username

Differentiation

I wouldn't say I think there's anything wrong with the current system, but it's interesting to think about. What if they added a new complete line of gear: hat, robe, shield, and "heal wand" sword, 2-4*, and you have to be wearing the whole set for the wand to work? As long as you can't heal yourself, it would certainly become a new gameplay tactic -- healer heals teammates, teammates protect healer. I think sword vs gun or bomb since having to run in and heal and avoid damage might be more fair in terms of requiring skill.

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Healing weapon maybe? And other ideas. READ READ ^_^