Beacause of how hard i think getting fire crystals why couldn't you make it so above the 2nd teir forging make it a 100% forge but with no perks if it fails. if not spending about 3-5 days just getting enough for a 2nd teir forging and failing is kinda horrifying no?
Forging Nerf?
I agree that it needs a nerf, whatever that may be. Currently i spend all my time grinding specific missions to get crystals; that's not how the game should be played!
Sometimes noobs pressure themselves to not have fun. Just because you're weak and stupid doesn't mean you can't have fun. And don't you see what would happen if SK doesn't have the flippin forge system? People would finish the game in 2 days, then get bored. This game is meant to stretch out how long it takes to reach endgame. This isn't a flash game, this is an actual legit MMORPG. You don't actually need to have to grind 24/7 to progress. Try to have some fun. K? Now leave me alone.
@shotjeer
Replaying the same mission 50 times to get a reasonable amount of crystals isn't fun.
Bonabopn: Then go into the arcade. Hurp. Y'know, that mystical place that nobody would wanna go to because it "wasn't profitable".
@malsvir-branea
But that won't get me as many crystals! Part of game design is making the player want to play the game the way you've designed it.
bona, that's not true. if you do S6 arenas or treasure vaults, you'll find more crystals than in an FSC depth. just use the party finder, or do a full t3 run.
Actually, you get the same amount of crystals from the arcade as the missions. That and the arcade isn't as dull and dreary as the missions.
You have a good chance to get more since you can get danger rooms, treasure vaults, and classic arenas in the regular clockworks (arcade).
There are actually some short missions with a high amount of crates/minute. It takes about 15 minutes to get about 26 crates on a particular mission. Each level has two fights and a few stragglers and lasts about 5 minutes.
It's your choice to grind and be bored or to play the game the way it was meant to be played and not be bored. Personally, I've never had to grind crystals. I've always had plenty. Then again, it might be because I play on Elite.
I got way too many crystals in arcade. Shining ones anyways. Heck, I'm getting less heat than shining crystals for my 4* items. As for my 5* items, I really don't care too much about levelling them, because seriously... Why the rush?
And why do people want to grind crystals so badly? That's not the point of the game. The point of the game is NOT to level your equipment. That's a side thing to me. I play for the enjoyment of going through dungeons, and frankly don't care too much about my weapons' level.
Levelling your weapon barely makes it any stronger anyways. Sure, the lvl 10 weapon is notably stronger than the lvl 1 one, but you'll eventually reach it anyways if you just play for fun. The bonuses the weapon gives are not too much (medium charge time reduction is barely noticeable, and one bar of HP barely matters much later on). Also, 5* weapons aren't that much stronger than 4* weapons. They difference in strength is either from the charge attack, or slight attack boost, which is miminal.
I'm pretty sure people who are not rushing through the game are having a much better time with both their equipment forging, alchemy and the game itself.
People grind for crystals because it's the only thing holding them back in the game.
@malsvir
Yes, but it shouldn't be a choice between more fun or more progression. That's why it needs to change, so the most efficient way of progressing is the most fun.
People used to complain about the mist energy system for limiting progression through the game, because that's what it did. 10 levels a day before you start dipping into your crowns to get energy to continue. If you only wanted to use mist, you crafted and were done for the day. Now you have unlimited runs and free crafting. OOO has to make money and the forge is better than the old crafting system.
Stop trying to go to 5* in one or two days. As Cyderiax said, 4* versus 5* is a minimal difference (maybe 5 to 10% damage difference, if that). The advent of the arsenal station made it more advantageous to craft more 4* items. The advent of the forge encourages you to go back to the arcade and stop playing this game like it's your job.
And in my opinion, you should have to choose between fast or fun. If you're not gonna play the game the way it was meant to be played just to go faster, then by all means don't have fun while doing it.
"And why do people want to grind crystals so badly? That's not the point of the game. The point of the game is NOT to level your equipment. That's a side thing to me. I play for the enjoyment of going through dungeons, and frankly don't care too much about my weapons' level."
It's essentially how you progress in the game, the point of the game isn't much relevant to this topic of conversation.
"Levelling your weapon barely makes it any stronger anyways. Sure, the lvl 10 weapon is notably stronger than the lvl 1 one, but you'll eventually reach it anyways if you just play for fun. The bonuses the weapon gives are not too much (medium charge time reduction is barely noticeable, and one bar of HP barely matters much later on). Also, 5* weapons aren't that much stronger than 4* weapons. They difference in strength is either from the charge attack, or slight attack boost, which is miminal."
Leveling your weapon is essential to upgrading it. At full level it also stops taking up the heat collected that would go to other gears. There's plenty of reasons to work toward the completion of your items' progression.
For instance, charge time reduction on bombs can make a significant difference regarding their efficacity and the safety in using them. It's often wise to upgrade them early.
"I'm pretty sure people who are not rushing through the game are having a much better time with both their equipment forging, alchemy and the game itself."
There's plenty to do when you're not bettering your arsenal. It still doesn't deter the fact that there's a very strong incentive in collecting the crystals in general. You can't really just ignore the tedious work, especially compared to the previous method before the update.
Your point of not bothering to level your weapon to 5* is ridiculous - the progression system of the game focuses on leveling up your equipment. If you don't level up your equipment, what are you even playing towards?
And if you make your players have to choose between fast or fun, you're a bad designer and your game will fail.
Everything that Thunder and Malsvir said is what I was saying. And at Bonabopn, replaying a mission 50 times for a single thing isn't fun I do agree, but it was your choice to do that mission for crystals. What I'm saying is that now without energy costs, you can do any level you want without having to worry about the energy to crown profit that you're getting. So if you want to bore yourself out of your mind, that's your choice, but stop complaining about it on the forums.
Shotjeer, you're missing the point. The developers can and should make the game more fun by making the most fun way the most progressive way. That's a flaw. An imperfection. Don't you see?
The new system is more tedious? For people on the old system who would only use mist for runs and would use their mist tank to craft, it would take 8 days to craft just from 4* to 5*. 7 for the 700 energy in FSC and the 8th for the craft. That's just for ONE item. A full set from 4* to 5* alone on only mist, accounting for no trinkets and only two weapons, would take 40 days. 4 weapons and 2 trinkets? 3 months. For the entire 5* set from 2* to finished, it would take about 5 months on crafting alone. Then bring in heating the items. It's more than half a year to do it without spending a dime.
On the new system with the forge, you can go exploring and find free orbs of alchemy, and if you manage to get enough crowns for some energy you can buy a few more to speed up the process. Meanwhile, you're progressing through the game at a pace you decide, not what a mist tank decides.
For the latest reply, it's pretty hard to do that, and I guarentee that at least 60 percent o MMORPGs do this. Nd BTW, what Tier/Star are you anyways?
Trinkets do not take anything from a level's heat pool. That'd be absurd.
I'm 5* already. As soon as i finish getting everything in my inventory to 5* lvl 10, i start something else.
And as for other mmos, most just copy where wow got their idea from, which isn't a particularly fun game anyway.
I don't have anything more to say for my argument. The devs can change the game to make it more fun; why don't they?
Did I ever say they did? If you would please read carefully, you can see that I am talking about the OLD progress limiting system: crafting. Trinkets cost energy to craft, ya know. Almost everyone knows that trinkets require no heat.
If you want to complain about the new progress limiting system (forge), please compare it to the old one (crafting).
If you are 5 star why do you even bother leveling up your items? They are already powerful enough, a +50 damage per hit boost isn't going to help. Maybe it looks more professional, but screw dat. And if the devs can change the game to be more fun, how? This is why we have a suggestions forum, for god's sake.So what's your suggestion?
The old crafting system was fine, if just dauntingly juxtaposed with the energy system back then. The Forge is strictly less forgiving, despite the full freedom of running through levels.
And in my knowledge, it was more profitable to keep at it with your CE to run through the FSC and use the gained Crowns to purchase more CE, assuming you survive the runs without the use of CE to revive. To be fair, your schedule for leveling items is more tedious in comparison.
"To be fair, your schedule for leveling items is more tedious in comparison."
It is not the schedule I used, because the early game in my time was ridiculously boring. This is the schedule a LOT of free-to-play players (or those without elevator passes) used back then before the new system.
The new forge is less tedious since you don't have to just run the "most profitable" run anymore. You can run wherever you want and still get your gear leveled up in roughly the same amount of time.
Now then. Since we are in a suggestion forum, throw out some ideas you have for changing the forge to be less tedious. You MUST keep in mind that OOO needs to make money. The "cash grabs" are because they NEED money to make this game because it is not free.
"So what's your suggestion?"
Bring back old heating method. Use the Forge as an alternative to level up items with extras. Make Fire Crystals plenty more valuable and rarer, they're called Rarities for Vog's sake. This is the way I believe the Forge should have been implemented from the start.
@Malsvir-Branea
I didn't state that you followed it personally.
Melonfish, there is one problem with that system. It's that OOO won't make much profit off the players that want to pay to rush through the game. If I can supplement your suggestion, it would be to make ALL rarities, including life sparks, rarer (heat crystals just moreso).
Heating would be less tedious, crafting would still be free but still pay-to-rush... But then again, how would you implement the old heat system WITH the forge? There's the one problem.
The only real advantage to the forge over normal heating is the prize box. Seeing as the box contains more crystals, replace it with some sort of exclusive accessories or just something else entirely. Something that'll draw the envy and demand from a lot of people.
Basically, make the two ways to level up items different and apart from each other.
There's plenty to do when you're not bettering your arsenal. It still doesn't deter the fact that there's a very strong incentive in collecting the crystals in general. You can't really just ignore the tedious work, especially compared to the previous method before the update.
In the previous version, I had basically everything at lvl 10, and lacked the crowns and purchase to upgrade anything, whether I was trying to get the recipe next up on the list for each item, or the energy to craft it. That was extremely tedious to me, and basically the only thing holding me back in the game. If I were to compare to the previous version, I'd actually like this one more. Bias reason of mines, but I right now have +500 shining crystals that I can't do anything with right now, because my 4* weapons are heating too slowly (and I didn't farm them, they just came on the go when I was playing arcade). The only thing the crystals slows down for me is the levelling of 5* equipment, and I lack the incentive to level them much since they're all basically over lvl 5 now anyways, and I can literally take my time levelling them. I guess my incentive on levelling equipment just isn't as high as other people's, so I don't complain about the forge as much. Also, forge boxes contains UV tickets.
I think it has been overdone. Guaranteed chance of get a 4* weapon from level 7 to 8 costs 60 fire crystals for a guaranteed chance. Level 8 to 9 cost 63. This is just too absurdly high.
@Shotjeer
You say if weapons are 5* why bother levelling them up anyways? Because 5* weapons usually don't outshine the 4* versions until level 5 or 6 or 7. And the game forces you to upgrade stuff into 5* if you want to progress. Plus, you HAVE to heat items to upgrade them at one point, level 5 for upgrade to 4*, level 10 for upgrade to 5*.
I don't get why people think that if you don't like the high cost of the forge that means you want it removed. Can't we just lower it?
~Ethanol
So at Melonfish, what would crystals do if we had the old heating system back? And at all those complainers, if forging gets removed, we'll be hit by a wave of protesting about level limitations
At Etharaes, so you're saying that 5 star weapons are weaker than 4 star weapons before they are leveled up to 5 6 and 7? And for heating to level up, that was my point. There is no star level after 5. And sometimes even if 5 star weapons don't outshine their 4 star counterparts, look at the charges. The Brandish lines have an extra explosion, the DA triples in power. Bombs have a much larger difference no matter what level they are (except for shards) Mist has larger radius, DR has more bullets, and Blast bombs have generally more power. Level one five stars are better than level 10 4 stars. Period.
You must be new to MMORPGs. Its always been the most profitbable run is boring because you know why? YOU GRIND THE RUN. Of course you are going to get bored of doing the same run everytime. The most fun levels are usually less profitable or drop less things because they don't give so much or because you don't usually do them. If you want to progress faster, then grind. If you want to go at a casual pace an enjoying the game go into the arcade. Always been like this in MMORPGs.
I'd suggest they would be used for the forging. How much exactly in comparison to the current state is up for debate. What I am saying is that the bread and butter of leveling items shouldn't make the use of crystals mandatory.
Another point I want to bring up is how an item will get locked at full heat when it's ready to level up, yet it still takes up from the heat pool when you reach the elevator at the end of a stage. The impractically divided heat gain ought to be aggravating for more than a handful of players. As a result, in the event that the player ends up running out of crystals to level up it seriously discourages keeping that item in your equipment when it's only going to sap the heat that would go for anything else.
As much as I hate how slow the forge is, I understand its purpose. However, I think the fire crystals in the Supply Depot are INSANELY overpriced. I'd rather pay 800 energy *once* to upgrade an item to 5* than pay 700 energy for 50 fire crystals, which isn't even enough to get one guaranteed level up past level 4 or so.
The problem with the forge is not that it slows the game down, it's that spending energy to speed it up is not really a viable option anymore.
Also, did they stealth nerf the Forge Prize Box drop rates? I got three while leveling my Divine Avenger, Polaris, and Sentenza during the first week or so after the update, but I haven't seen even one this past week or two while leveling a few other items (I always go for the 100% chance). I'm also not getting free levels as often anymore.
Melonfish, the lost Heat is indeed a shame, especially as it was said somewhere that it isn't lost.
I'd like a Heat Sash that collects any not used heat that you can then distribute (either item-specific, or preferably in general).
After all, Heat isn't what it used to be, Forge is where it's at now, so needing to equip the item the Heat is for seems a bit obsolete.
I'd be fine with a 30 day item costing a sufficient amount of Energy in the Supply Depot, if it can gather heat unanimouslys (is that the right word?). It could be a Heat bar where the Mist bar used to be.
Violatte, I got 1 box early on, none since. A friend got 5 overall, 4 with 3-UV Tickets in, if I remember right. And not just early on, but recently. I guess we're just unlucky.
heat is not lost. it's a graphic bug, but in the truth items that don't need heat do not recieve it. and pets too.
crystals on supply depot are indeed overpriced as hell. but fire crystals are commonly found in the clockworks so it's not a problem.
You say if weapons are 5* why bother levelling them up anyways? Because 5* weapons usually don't outshine the 4* versions until level 5 or 6 or 7.
and until you hit level 5 you can forge gear without worrying about paying too much. that's not the problem. the problem is crafting, that neeeds level 10. if OOO lowers it to 7-8 it would be way better.
Crystals would be useless if we had the old system. Unless if they provide extra heat.
Prize boxes are amazing.
Anyways, I also agree that prices in Depot are overpriced times a thousand, but oh well. Lower the prices is all we can say.
At Violette, it's the probability troll. You fail 10 times in a row at 80 percent sucess.
I suggest that the crystals can be used to upgrade items regardless of their heat total toward their level-up.
And by "probability troll" you surely refer to Finagle's Law, which translates into "Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong".
Murphy's Law has frequently and infamously translated as that, but it's actually more among the lines of "If there are two or more ways to do something, and one of those ways can result in a catastrophe, then someone will do it".
Both labels work, though.
What's with the urge to heat everything NOW?
3 days isn't much. Compare it to experience levels in any other MMORPG. You can still enjoy the game without having everything maxed out.
You're not supposed to go from rescue camp to the core in 1 day.