Aren't those words not allowed on the forums? Correct me if I am wrong. -nevermind, it was fixed-

And I am sure some forumgoer will point out all the economy destroying things in this post, but I won't be that forumgoer.

Eliminate Crowns Entirely

So if crowns are gone, what happens to the game's pay model? Would a variety of items be locked behind paywalls and be completely inaccessible to free to play players? If not, what method would Three Rings use to profit from the game?

The dual currency system is a necessary one in a free to play game like this so paying players have a reason to be selling the paid currency energy to others. Unless you can explain how this can work and not screw either free players or Three Rings then I don't think it would work.

Understandable and Sensible Crafting

Three Rings already hand players free orbs to reduce or eliminate energy costs, depending on how much you want to grind. If you don't want to grind then you use the paid currency. That's part of how they make money.

Better Gear and Upgrades

You want a 5 star weapon to have exactly the same amount of power as a 0 star weapon? I'm not against alternate effects at upgrading (although this kinda exists to a degree with split crafting paths - you don't have a chaos cowl at 2 star for example) but progression of increased power and defence should go hand in hand. They don't have to be mutually exclusive.

Don't nerf gear at lower tiers.

I imagine this is to stop players just rolfstomping everything in sight, especially important if players are joining parties with other knights. That said, higher tier equipment is still noticeably stronger in the lower tiers, if not as much as you'd hope.

Normal Pet Heat Progression

It's a material sink, and a much needed one. It's amazing that stuff like Flame Souls and Reaper Ribs are worth more than trash now. Perhaps the heat progression could be scaled so that low level sprites gain more heat from runs than currently so that players get a feel for sprite progression early on, while higher levelled sprites have the same very slow heat progression to continue encouraging material consumption.

Auto-Attacking Pets

I don't want my pet auto attacking. Heart Attack is at its best when it hits a large group on enemies at once. I'd be annoyed if my pet fired it against a single enemy. Likewise, it would be a problem if it used the angelic barrier by itself, forcing me into a lengthy cooldown when I want to use heart attack.

If it's an option then that would be fine as I could continue to personally activate mine. Only thing is, how would you approach multiple skills? It seems unlikely that the AI would be smart enough to "know" the best time to use each of its attacks.

Weapon Heat Levels

Ingredients such as what?

I think the drop rates of heat crystals aren't really that bad, although I can't speak for normal setting. I don't have a personal problem with the random drop system for them because I still get quite a few in each run. That said, I certainly have no issue in making the acquisition of them more standard, but chances are it would have to still play into the idea of limiting player progression since I'm sure that's the intention of the forge.

Drops Redesign

I think no matter what drop system is used there will be players unhappy with it.

I imagine a number of players would favour solo if it means more profit to them. Meanwhile we have players preferring to solo now because they have to run around collecting loot themselves.

I like the current system. Even though watching knights swirling around in circles picking up loot you can't see is funny. I've always liked playing with others both for the gameplay advantage and for the social element, and now I don't have to sacrifice loot drops to do it so that's a bonus for me.

Bring Buddy Revives back

I like how players are encouraged to not lie on the floor waiting for someone else to pick them up so I would be happy to not see these return. However, I would be happy to allow for health sharing between two living knights, similar to how we could drop a health capsule before for an injured knight. This allows for the team work in helping knights that have taken a beating while not putting the burden on active players when someone gets KOed.

Better Market Mechanics

You can search by item (eg Light Shard) using the search box at the bottom-left of the AH window and then sort the results using the option at the top-right, so you can sort by buy price for example.

You can list an item as buy only essentially by putting the starting bid price the same as the buy now price.

I don't sell a lot of high price items so I don't have much of a comment on the costs.

No Bound Items

You can unbind for energy, although of course the costs of doing so are much higher than if you were to craft from scratch and the supply depot sells premades at a cost less than the unbind fee.

I'm positive the reasoning for this is to encourage players to craft their own equipment instead of just getting them from end game players. Even though they could buy premades from the depot, the high costs surely act as a deterrent to that. I feel you're unlikely to see any change in this.

Minimalist UI

Yeah, sure, why not? I like the current UI but I can certainly understand why others would have an issue with it.

I don't like any of the suggestions, and disagree with your reasoning.

They're either outright annoying, or just go against what's sensible in the game.

Niichi had more patience and willingness to type a lot. From me no more than: No, it all feels just wrong.

(Even the UI one; I don't like the current one, but you including rotating just made it a no for me too.)

I agree with Thunder on everything he has said(in this thread).

Eliminate Crowns Entirely
Get rid of crowns entirely and replace crown costs and drops with energy equivalents.

Without a forced dependency on a Paid currency, the income for this game would drop dramatically. Without the ecological system where paying and free players depend on eachother, the game would collapse. I'm not talking about just the economy, but everything.

A single currency would greatly reduce complaints over the "cost of energy". It would also add to the lore and make the currency have a sort of integrity.

No-one cares about the complaints about cost of energy. The cost of energy is as much as people wish to pay for it. The higher it is, the more it promotes people buying energy with real money. There has already been a system implemented for players to get by without using energy, it's called Orbs of Alchemy.

The knights of the spiral order crashland and have to create a makeshift currency to get by. They use crystal energy, which is useful and in abundance, to do so. It makes sense.
It would also reduce the crown clutter from defeated mobs.
It's understandable that you could harvest energy from monsters in the clockworks. Why would mobs carry coins?
This is just something that makes sense. If crowns have no purpose, why have them?

Lore and logic has no place in a debate where the entire economy and existence of the game rests in the balance.

Understandable and Sensible Crafting

Once again, you're destroying everything just to make it "fit the lore" in your eyes. I can easily explain how the crafting works lore-wise if you can't.

Don't nerf gear at lower tiers.

Higher gear is not only ridiculously overpowered in lower tiers, but so is the skill of the player. Snarbolax isn't a challenge, even in proto gear. Why do you need to make it so it's even easier? If you don't like the difficulty, play on normal.

Auto-Attacking Pets

Battle Sprites are not pets. Monster Pockets are pets. Battle Sprites are Knight Abilities, their processor parasites off the Knight's suit HUD and targeting systems. Thus, ordering a Battle-Sprite would consume the majority of a Knight's concentration, preventing them from engaging in intense combat of their own. Mechanically, sprites would mess up everything: something that has infinite health should not be allowed to attack nor draw aggro in PvE. And to balance the fact that you're having enemies have their health slowly sapped for free, the Battle Sprites would have to have absolutely pathetic offensive abilities, completely undermining the whole "auto-attacking" system anyway. What would stop your pet from attacking that pit boss first and causing all Yesman to turn into overtimers, or detonating blast boxes in Danger Rooms, or toggling switches unnecessarily in IMF?

Again, it just makes sense and suits the lore better.

Stop saying this when you haven't even bothered to explain or ask someone to explain the current lore.

Drops Redesign

Anyone who picks up loot puts it in the loot pool. Multiple people do not have to pick up the same loot drops.
The loot is then distributed equally among the players at the end of a dungeon.

Including alts? Yeah, good job destroying the anti-alt system.

This leads to understandable styles of gameplay. Partying up makes things much easier, though it also reduces what each player gets.

Most players would never party up if they knew loot was split.

This doesn't lead to favoring solo runs, though. Partying makes runs much quicker, and more reliable.

Not really. Other people tend to mess things up, rather than make things go faster.

Bring Buddy Revives back
Pretty obvious. More teamwork & more fun.

If you're not even going to bother to fix the problems that were with the original revive system, then don't bother suggesting this.

Better Market Mechanics

The marketplace should group all items of any type (like all Light Shards) into one and only display the cheapest one to Buy. (not bid)

What about the people who want to bid on items rather than buy them out?

And allow just listing for buy, without bidding options. This speeds up the economy and makes trading simpler.

Set buyout price to X. Set starting bid price to X. Problem?

And lower listing costs to a cap of 5%. Preferably 0% or 1% for realism, but I assume 3 Rings is milking it for all it's worth. 10% is unrealistic and TOO DAMN HIGH!

If you don't like the Auction House's fees, then use the trade channel. IT'S FREE! Cramming your items on a permanently active database isn't cheap. Not to mention this is a big crown sink. You don't like high energy prices? Lowering auction house fees will cause energy prices to rise! And unrealistic? 10% final sale fee is unrealistic?

No Bound Items

Have you any idea how many 5 star players there are, and how many unused items this could potentially throw into the circulation of economycirculation? Especially since now that players can craft heaps of 5 star items for free with the new Orb drops. Why don't we just make the entire game free while we're at it?
The third storey window is open. You can either go willingly or by force.

Sorry, but all these ideas seemed kinda naive. I hope I didn't come off overly rude. (I was aiming for blunt)

If four people attack the camp, it's much easier for them to overwhelm it, but each one will want a cut of the spoils.

Unfortunately this sort of system can discourage party play, or make Soloing levels absolutely out of the question. Making it so that enemy difficulty doesn't scale up with increased party members means that soloing later levels will either be WAY too hard to be worth the unshared loot, or a 4-man party will be WAY too easy. Think about it: something that one person finds challenging, three people will find a breeze. Something that a 4-man party find challenging, will be impossible to solo. The system that Three Rings has chosen is a pretty good decision.

It's possible that your ideas be implemented. But they'd have to be all implemented at once, along with a massive overhaul, or none at all. They really wouldn't work on their own.

The assumed equivalency in the value of drops automatically balances this for you.

assuming is not automatic. testing is required on the actual value ce has. ce prices has gone down to 5k and up to 10k. as hex said, it's the value that players give to it, but we don't know OOO optimal value, nor an actual value, always that there is an actual value of ce.

balancing things towards what they are cannot make the balance significantly worse in any way

I feel this statement is very very wrong. balancing towards what it was before your change will have consequences, and those will have to be balanced. you are silly if you don't see that it's not only value of the drops to be balanced.

The idea here is that instead of gaining more base attack power each generation, swords would differentiate by gaining different style of gameplay and different suites of effects.

would differentiate

diversity is good. diversification is not. if I like a playstile, now I can choose between many weapons. with your change, I would be compelled to choose one. too much detail into one weapon will make it an hipster wepon good for only one propouse. making that on all weapons will make every weapon situational, actually killing all those all around weapons that are out there. brandishes, sealed lines and pulsars are popular becuase you can use them everywhere. the only thing bad about those weapons is that they are too good right now.

Farming lower tiers is completely eliminated with a linear with respect to depth reward system. Balance the linear growth to what is currently in place and you get the same reward for depth 15 and double or triple the reward for FSC.

it is already balanced. we don't need this because it would either be exploitable or would kill rewards for lower tier players.

I don't see the issue with high tier players helping noobs. It'd be like a high tier player giving a noob 400 ce. It wastes the high tier players' time and effort and isn't interesting.

I have made my statement with friends, not random noobs. you make them see how powerful they will possibly be, but then they hit t3, your weapons are not so OP anymore, and they die because of lack of skill.

Currently I'm 3* all around gear with a lvl 10 pet.

were you here before the pets came out? do you feed your pet regularly with some high star materials? or you just throw shards at him?

You're forgetting pets are still food-locked for leveling.

and so are weapons. with fire crystals. it's the same thing.

For weapon leveling, presumably you'd pick an ingredient that is about as common as the heat you'd usually use to 100% level on average. (like the second the last ingredient for each level) Boom. Instantly balanced.

I would laugh, but there is nothing to laugh for. fire crystals are uncommon. 2* mats for 3* are common. 4* mats for 5* is even more common. if you are talking about 3* mats for 3* knights, those are fairly rare, and you should use them for your sprite. it's not balanced.

I agree with hex for the parties. also, I'm gonna make a reference.
double difficulty of what?
double damage dealt by enemies doesn't solve anything. even doubling the health they have doesn't. inflated enemies are not difficult, they are only longer to beat. old enemies AI? that would solve the problem only for the skilled players that can handle it. please explain how difficulty would be balanced.

For revives, yeah I wouldn't be too opposed if no revives existed at all.

you don't know what are you talking about. enter t3 and advanced and start dying. oh, you will.

Even with the current system of binding/unbinding, any person can just give their account to someone else when they're done with it.

except it's against the ToS. you either break the rules or pay, while with your system, what hex said.

why not adding gear instead of basically destroying everything? or you meant so before?
no, you are suggesting gear specialized on doing one thing, being hitting more enemies (range), locking something into a wall (lasers), buffing. thing is the game doesn't need it. weapons like that would be situational, compelling one to get more gear, instead of making them do a choise like OOO is doing right now. also, one of the game's strong points is simplicity. (and the reason why 90% of the people out there have a polaris or a brandish.) you are just throwing in lots of effect that will need a balance of everything, while we (again) we already have data of the unbalance here. we don't need new things if OOO is working on fixing the problems we have.

Pretty sure pet feeding optimal strategies are not explained to noobs. "Preferred food".

newbies should get skill according to the difficulty of their tier and the strenght of their weapons. and you chose the wrong thing. morlin tells you that all food info is on biscotti, which is in the same room, and tells you everything about food.

So make pets a heatsink, not a material sink. Or just make those ingredients appear just enough more frequently to cover the leveling cost.

like mats aren't common enough. and like we need a heat sink. leveling something from 7 to 10 needs time, fire crystals or not. another thing you need to balance out: the forge was created to balance free elevators. so if you remove the forge, you have to balance a lot.

Anyway, taking longer to defeat enemies as one knight means that they'll have more of a chance to get you in a bad position and deal some damage. Also they're all targeting you now. It's not just "lol just takes longer".

tell that to all players that have an experience with wolvers, devilites, kats, zombies, retrodes, lumbers. all those are prevedible to say the least. with their windup, you know exactly what they will do and when they will strike. only a large number of devilites that surrounds you is a threat, but that is the same thing as turrets: you need to sincronize with their speed, and you'll get hit 1-2 times.
also, health trinkets and UVs will take care of whatever problem you can have with them.

it's not only "oh no there'll be too much good stuff in the market". it's the consequences it will have. you say that prices will stay up? you have to remove the unbinding fee, and the added value of rarity, which for some 5* items is a lot. you can't rely only on the UV market for a cr sink. becuase a currency sink is the only thing we need from that.

other things I didn't tell are because I'm tired fisically and mentally. this thing requires a hge amount of balance that you don't seem to see. the things you suggest will have consequences that you don't seem to see. if this discussion goes on this way, I'll just quit it because you are not seeing.