Spiral Knights - now that the new system is out

now that the new system is out

9 replies [Last post]

Thu, 08/29/2013 - 21:12

Viconaut

I think taking out heart res/hp sharing was a huge mistake and removed a great co op mechanic that worked in the games favor and made it more fun, unique and interesting. to be able to earn the parties trust by doing well in combat so they knew when they gave you half of their remaining health that it wouldn't go to waste and you would be around to help in getting it back. or to have to trudge through a horde of mobs to make your way to a downed comrade to pick him back up and continue the fight. dropping a pill for another ( i don't mind the item sharing so much as the Heart res being removed) and helping them fight their way to it on their last leg, diving in harms way and shielding them from taking their last hit before reaching it. that was GOOD fun and GOOD co op mechanics. the only thing that came close to that was classic NES games and the like but it was in the crappy form of just stealing an entire life. this was the only game ive ever seen that had anything like it. sure you had the issue of newbs being a life sink, but that was fine. you gave them the benefit of the doubt and if they didn't learn from their mistakes, and become a bit more cautious they lost that privilege and instead had to pay for their mistakes out of their mist or pockets. in a solid group you were able to rely on one another, work as a unit/ squad of four. a downed knight meant you were at 3/4 capacity not some random person died. cheesy or not, it made for some of the best comradery i have seen in a MULTILAYER game in a long time. you learned which fourth was strong in which situation, and leaned on them and gave them your health when fighting in a situation that called for their specific skill set, even if it meant dying to give it to them, knowing that they would spend that portion of the squads health better than you could at that moment. you also knew when it was your turn to lead the spearhead, accepted the health given and were obligated and allowed to be able to do more with it at the time than the rest.

Now it is just stale... 4 people alone in a group, no where near the same sense of co operation. its not a game breaker but you guys took a chunk of Spiral Knights heart out with this one. id pay for more than elevators to get it back. but even with the new spark of life system, why cant we still have our HP resurrection. continue to stop heat sharing if you want, take away the free revive per floor, that's just weird anyway. but the new system is dead, its just so lacking and dry, haltingly. i don't know, stale is all i can think of. now if someone is downed in a tight spot like an arena, one person has to stop, break the flow of game play and right click a picture after unlocking hud, go to the bottom of a drop down menu and click in order to bring the help they need back to life, usually costing the resurrecting knight their own life or a good portion of it in order to do so. as for the fallen knights (if they have the sparks themselves) most mid level players will) rather than watching a friend battle through the creatures of the room to get you back on your feet and then helping them fight their way out of the corner and wall of mobs they worked their way into in doing so, you plop down and instantly click a button to pop right back up again, no struggle, no co op.. just a number ticked down in the inventory. neato.

do people really think that thats better? more entertaining? anyone i have asked in game feels this way, and ive spent a lot of time in doing so, but i don't see these people on the forums, just flamers and the people im guessing who stopped getting heart revived after the 10th death on the same floor after "leeerooooy jenkins"ing around. im not saying take everything back and put it the way it was. i like a lot of the new ideas, some are ok some are great. the sprites are amazing. but is there any chance it getting heart revive/hp sharing back at a fair cost? anyone else miss it?

this is all just one bummed knights opinion, shared among the other 3/4ths of his squad. no need for le flames

Thu, 08/29/2013 - 21:42

Mystrian

Dropping items

That would be nice if it could return. I always liked giving randoms health capsules and vials. Now I have to avoid picking them up

EDIT: if we do get sharing revs back mabye the tradeoff could be crowns.

Thu, 08/29/2013 - 21:58

Wolfe-Knight

Hmm

I do feel that the risk with the old system before was nice but this new system does allow more freedom (although having 150 sparks is silly, we need a cap on that asap). If the old system were to come back it would have to be compatible with the current one. It may be hard to do but not impossible (sometimes I miss rushing over to rez a friend in the heat of battle).

Now for the pickups, many people still seem to misunderstand this. All item pickups are instanced so they appear for you and you alone. This means that if you have 3 pills and you see another one then use one you have and pick it up. I have people complain to me about not picking up a pill that they see but I cant.

Thu, 08/29/2013 - 22:33

Pdtopgun

I generally agree with this

The lack of item-dropping doesn't bug me as much, especially since they're all instanced now anyway, but I also miss being able to sacrifice your health to revive a fallen teammate. Like you said, there was something awesome about basically making a suicide run so that your best party member or two could get another shot at the enemies. And then those times where your whole party was hanging on with the bare minimum, living from heart to heart...fun stuff. I guess Seraphynx's powarz would cut back on the more dire situations, but that might also place more incentive on keeping anyone with one equipped revived at all costs. Parties just don't feel the same without the mechanic.

You know, with the elimination of Mist, there have been times when I'm actually LESS willing to use a Spark to revive than I would have with ME in the old days. That counter reminds you that you're playing with a limited resource (even if I have an ample supply of them), whereas before, I knew that ME would be back in just a few hours, so it didn't seem as big of a deal.

Thu, 08/29/2013 - 22:54

Viconaut

instanced items

yeah i understand how the items work, i get that if a pill drops everyone can pick them up. but even that took away from the whole co op imo. a pill was a bitter sweet gift, and it was a pill for the GROUP not for the knight who held it. with it came the ability to give life to the knight who either needs it more, or can make better use of it in the specific situation as well as the responsibility of living long enough to use it. a pill was basically a SoL that required Co op but you had to be alive to use it . it allowed you to give more life to the player you were about to heart res, or help yourself for having to pay for a baddies (or brothers) mistake. having one pill for the whole was rough, but it made it more important to spend the pill wisely and work harder together. and with the instanced items theres just more lack of that co op stuff i was talking about that came with heart revive.

Fri, 08/30/2013 - 13:43

Viconaut

hrm

i wonder if it isn't so much that people don't care or feel the same was as it is maybe just a lack of those players being active on the forums? or just people not feeling like taking the time to comment/post replies. i guess i was expecting/hoping for more feedback

Fri, 08/30/2013 - 15:08

Rhagnarock

my 2 cents

I did not read all of that since I'm at work and have to go back in 5 mins. But the short answer is this:

Heat farming

That's the sole reason the whole rez system got shifted, to prevent people from heat farming battle sprite and get a clear distinct advantage for people with guilds vs lonesome wolf.

Now you get more co-op since death means something. Before everybody was going Chaos with dmg trinket, no resist, full dmg, full ctr, full asi, if you die your teamate will pick you up, invinciframe, clear room, rinse/repeat.

There was no challenge and now that death is potent and unforgiving, people take more time to plan their tactic, going into PUG for RJP I see more planing in front of the boss than before.... And what's funny is I go berserk on JK after 2 mins of planing for nothing XD

Expect more feedback after school hour and when people get off work ^ ^

Fri, 08/30/2013 - 16:11

Wrdrei

I agree with you (Viconaut)

I also really enjoyed the fun co op aspects of reviving fallen teammates.
My runs were generally my buddy and I in a two man team, meaning that one down meant half the team down too. It was a lot of fun cheering him on as he charged the devil hordes just to save my sore frozen butt. It was just as fun to fight for survival, trying to get close to him when he fell to a trojan (which happened less often though, he's the better player).
I believe you (Rhagnarock) might have a point there, but I personally have to dissagree. I have found the heat gained for sprites (when on missions) to be negligible at the very best. I believe one or two lots of heat from other players won't really change that by much.
I can't really think of what might be an adequate exchange for the teammate res.
Bottom line: You have my vote to bring it back!

Fri, 08/30/2013 - 19:16

Viconaut

at the heat farming comment

there is much more challenge now that the difficulty system has been added. and i think the new stuff would fit so well with heart ressing. but as for the heat farming, they didn't have to scrap the whole HP share/heart res system to take out the ability to share heat. they could have just cut getting heat for heart reviving people all together. at least that would suffice imo

Fri, 08/30/2013 - 22:40

Tenkii

@co-op

Maybe because I started taking a liking to guns/bombs recently, but I feel like the co-op thing works well in Elite mode. With monsters' increased health, you want to kill them faster, so you work together. If you're the better player, you keep your lesser-skilled teammates alive by staying near them and helping them get rid of monsters, too.

Pet skills also seem more fitting to (remember to) use in Elite as well, all for the same reasons, too.

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now that the new system is out