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Chance for forge success

6 replies [Last post]
Wed, 09/11/2013 - 09:31
Zeemote

It looks like that you have a bug in “chances” for forging in high levels on 4 star equipment, or just misprint. (it seems that it works wrongs with 4star stuff only)
When I use 2x forge (~70% success) in high levels, it almost always fails with 4 star stuff...
It very annoying... because getting forge crystals is a very long and boring process. So, after calc of probabilities it's clear that most cheap and fast way to forge is to use second switch (2x) wich has ~70% - ~80% chances. But it don't work in a way in which it must...

My row history:
Heavy demo suite (4 star) 7 level to 8 – 2nd switch (70% chance) failed.
Heavy demo suite (4 star) 7 level to 8 – 2nd switch (70% chance) failed.
Heavy demo suite (4 star) 7 level to 8 – 2nd switch (70% chance) failed.
Polaris (5 star) 6 level to 7 – 2nd switch (75% chance) failed.
Polaris (5 star) 6 level to 7 – 2nd switch (75% chance) success.
Heavy demo suite (4 star) 7 level to 8 – 2nd switch (70% chance) failed.
Heavy demo suite (4 star) 7 level to 8 – 2nd switch (70% chance) success.
Heavy demo mask (4 star) 8 level to 9 – 2nd switch (70% chance) success.
Argent peace maker (5 star) 6 level to 7 – 2nd switch (75% chance) success.
Heavy demo suite (4 star) 8 level to 9 – 2nd switch (70% chance) failed.
Heavy demo suite (4 star) 8 level to 9 – 2nd switch (70% chance) failed.
Heavy demo suite (4 star) 8 level to 9 – 2nd switch (70% chance) failed.
Heavy demo suite (4 star) 8 level to 9 – 2nd switch (70% chance) failed.

It's not a full history... because I begun to write it down after several failed forges.
It's clear that chances to forge successfully for 5star stuf are close to 70%...

PS: the new forge mechanics are so annoying... :( it forces me to repeat missions wich I don't like...

Wed, 09/11/2013 - 17:13
#1
Batabii's picture
Batabii

Why don't you just use the max amount and guarantee success? Clearly it's cheaper than all these failures...

Thu, 09/12/2013 - 02:54
#2
Zeemote
No, 2x forge must be cheapest

Yes... you are right. I'll use 3x forge for my 4star stuf... now.
But 2x forge must be cheapest if it'll work as "declared"... it's a bug report.

Thu, 09/12/2013 - 13:22
#3
Little-Juances's picture
Little-Juances

No it's not. Someone did the math with probabilities and all. In the end, you would only save like 5 crystals unless you're extremely lucky to always level it up on the first try.

Even if it worked as intended (I'm not confirming it isn't), it would be a waste to not use the 3x option as you lose the chance of double level ups or 25% bonus for nothing.

Fri, 09/13/2013 - 10:22
#4
Zeemote
...

"Someone did" is the wrost argument. Probability scale is progressive... it's more than 70% in the beging.
Calc, choosing optimal options, etc are the different topics, and may be interisting, but it is not related to the main theme - "the bug".

Anyway, the problem(bug) exists and it should be checked and may be patched.

Fri, 09/13/2013 - 13:00
#5
Momofuku's picture
Momofuku

Expected cost = cost / probability of success

(Intuitively, if your probability of success is 100% then expected cost = cost)

Your cost is always a multiple of "x" where your options for every level up is 1x, 2x, or 3x.

As seen in the Forge wiki page, your chances of success vary with the star requirement of the weapon, and the level of the weapon itself.

So the easiest thing to solve for is the break even points: at what probabilities do your 1x and 2x expected costs equal the 3x cost?

1x = 30%
2x = 67%

Since 2x level up is generally between the 70-80% success range, you "should" be getting the most out of your crystals leveling this way. But you're not getting that much more out of them (5% savings for 70% rate, 17% for 80% though). However, there are many claims that the percentage isn't correct and people are getting numerous failures doing so.

This doesn't take into account chance of double level up or prize boxes, which I have no way of knowing what those chances are. I generally get one double level up per 2 fully heated 5 star weapons, but that in no way implies any evidence.

This means there's really no reason to ever forge under 100% chance unless you enjoy losing fire crystals for no benefit.

What they should have done is actually increase the reward with lower percentages. And actually charge more fire crystals for lower percentage.

1x = 100% forge, easy stuff
2x = 60% forge, chance of UV, chance of double level up
3x = 30% forge, higher chance of UV, higher chance of double level up, prize box

This leads to a lot of interesting situations--people who just want to level up their weapons can do so easily. But once you have 1000 fire crystals built up and nothing to heat up, why not reward people for dumping 3x into a weapon to try and get a UV (same chance as forging)? Not to mention it's only 30% chance to level up, and ONLY on level up do you get a chance at UV, making it a HUGE fire crystal sink for end game players who have too much fire crystal and nothing to do with it.

Sat, 09/14/2013 - 14:55
#6
Zeemote
yep... you are right. But

yep... you are right. But even 5% does matter if you have a lot of 4 star stuff to forge.

But I think savings will be a little more than 5% (if chances will be as declared), because of the law of large numbers and the normal distribution.

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