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Why doesn't Spiral Knights have Co-op Missions?

12 replies [Last post]
Thu, 09/12/2013 - 08:52
El-Odio's picture
El-Odio

Right now you might think "Herp Derp, we already have coop, n00b, we r alredy play togeta!" - but that's no what cooperative gameplay means. As things are now we are just people who somehow happen to be shooting and slashing at the same enemies. We rarely if ever get the chance to actually work together on anything: This game has no way to heal each other, there is no "real" aggro from monsters, the area wouldn't support kiting even if we had aggro. All enemies are just as well killable alone and if you play together it's not because you need to, but "because". There still isn't a real reason to play together, except personal preference.
(Leaving Shadow Lairs out, it's another story.)

But I guess that's nothing new to most of you. At this point I however have to wonder why I didn't see anyone question this in about the one and a half year I'm playing. I mean, seriously, it can't be no one thought about this when playing with others?
Regardsless of all that, what I'm getting at is the following: The developers already have a lot of tools to make us play not just in the same level, but cooperativly with each other. And it wouldn't be to difficult either!

  • Pressure plate - A pressure plate opens a nearby gate. A Heavy Statue must be placed on it to keep it pressed, and multiple pressure plates require all the Heavy Statues to be retrieved. A Knight may stand on the button to open the gate, but will not be able to proceed in the level until the Statue is retrieved, as there will be a Party Button on the other side of the gate.
  • Alternating Switches - Often comes in groups. Hitting any one of these switches will change all of them. These are often used to raise and lower large numbers of gates simultaneously, or change the direction of retraction for a row of consecutive spiked floors. They are colored purple and yellow.
  • Timed Switches - Hitting a Timed Switch causes something to happen that will reset after a short period of time. When the action has been reset, a knight may hit the switch again to activate the action again, and may repeatedly do so until the action has been completed. Timed switches are also purple and yellow.

With these, it should be a breeze to make people play dependant on each other. Finally let me spark your imagination with a few examples of what I mean.

  • Two Timed Switches in different lanes which together open one gate but only stay activated long enough to get back to the gate. (Disclaimer: There would be a switch behind it for permanently opening the gate as to prevent leaving someone behind)
  • A simple two player pressure Plate room
  • Four pressure plates for four gates. Behind them are four timed switches which activate the center gate so the group can advance

... Excuse the crudeness but I don't get paid for this so it will have to suffice.

Say, would you like to see more puzzel content in general? Would you like to see what the team can make of this?
And most importantly: Do you even want to play as a team?

EDIT: I feel the need to mention that those rooms are just examples for cooperative gameplay. At no time did I say that they would be empty and that you don't have to fight in them. "Puzzel room" does not exclude the presence of enemies and a great deal of their appeal might even come from splitting forces and managing different objectives while trying to stay alive.

Thu, 09/12/2013 - 09:22
#1
Thunder-The-Bright's picture
Thunder-The-Bright
don't forget lasers Odio.

don't forget lasers Odio. those are deactivable walls just like gates. exept any level 75+ seraph's user could just walk by, but there are things to counter that. a party button and some gates.
and +1e100000000 to the suggestion.

Thu, 09/12/2013 - 10:46
#2
Khamsin's picture
Khamsin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEt0-CXvO9c

Relevant.

Thu, 09/12/2013 - 15:22
#3
White-Past's picture
White-Past
It's so true...

There's nothing cooperative at all. Or very little co-op. I can only draw up a few, like how everyone shield-blocks a tile in IMF to prevent mecha spawns on the last part of the 2nd depth. I'd love these puzzles and co-op situations to be added to the game, but the devs would have to consider the fact that sprite attacks could be used as delayed gunshots.

Also, whenever someone has to leave in a multiplayer party, there should be a statue/drone to replace the person so that it can do things like push 4 player blocks or stand on a pressure plate if needed. Drone cannot do combat, but can be lifted/placed on pressure plates. Something like that.

Thu, 09/12/2013 - 20:07
#4
Troll-Lolo's picture
Troll-Lolo
Puzzles, puzzles everywhere +(900)1

I have also thought we need more Puzzles, like LoZ games. OOO has very few puzzles in the clockworks, we need some more puzzles in CW Tunnels, and possibly a third kind of random floor, Treasure Vaults are lucky, puzzles will be fun (a danger room style loot room at the end), and graveyard as the "challenge /unlucky" one. Of course there is some random regular CWs level in the mix.

Fri, 09/13/2013 - 21:38
#5
Lightplasma's picture
Lightplasma
If there were co-op missions,

If there were co-op missions, what happens the people that like to go solo?

Fri, 09/13/2013 - 23:46
#6
Krakob's picture
Krakob

If you hadn't noticed, a lot of the game's content is meant for co-op. It's not like you have to be in a group to defeat Vana or the Roarmies but that's how they were designed to be buttkicked. The SLs are pretty dependent on coordination in the team if you want good results.

Sat, 09/14/2013 - 02:01
#7
Batabii's picture
Batabii

When people can join or leave at any moment, you can't make any puzzles or areas entirely dependent on a specific number of players.

Sat, 09/14/2013 - 02:48
#8
El-Odio's picture
El-Odio
Answers!

I really like how Krakob completly ignores the very first sentence, Which is why I will completly ignore his comment.

@ Batabii: People can and do leave in all MMO games, yet all MMO games have content that can not be solved alone. It is simply solved by leaving them as it is, unable to go further unless they either find replacement or give up and go back. That's how it works in every other game. Always. Saying "You can't make multiplayer content for a specific number of players" is like saying "WoW, Final Fantasy 11&14, The Secret World and all the other MMOs are following an impossible concept and can not possible be successful".

@ Lightplasma: They spontanously combust into flames that will consume their entire neighborhood and enevtually open portals to hell from which their charred souls will reemerge to tempt others into going on a co-op mission alone until the earth is drowned in the fires of hell.
What do you think will happen with someone who tries to play content for several players alone, hm?

That all aside, yesterday they announced the "challenge mode that will allow players to work as a team in cooperative scenarios and compete with other teams for a high score". It is to bee seen what they mean, but that wording is rather promising.

Sat, 09/14/2013 - 06:54
#9
Mad-Wolver's picture
Mad-Wolver
@Khamsin I always use to hate

@Khamsin
I always use to hate getting the com in Dungeon Duos, since I played with 3 people it was like whoever got the com loses.

@El-Ordio How would the levels be created then?

Would the rooms be treasure/heartbox room because what if someone decided to fly solo but was hit by a 2 switch timer?

Since the levels predetermined will they have select "2+/3+/4 player Only Statums?"

Or will it get it's own gate stating it is a group gate?

Possibly a new mineral that corresponds to group stratums?

Sat, 09/14/2013 - 14:58
#10
El-Odio's picture
El-Odio
That's actually a really easy question

I guess you didn't think much about it, but that's okay, because I am here to take my time and lay out the obvious.
First of, there would be the possibilty to make co-op passages akin to Danger Rooms, but instead of energy it would require two, three or four knights to stand on pressure plates or hit switches at the same time. There are many ways to go about this, but it would be far from difficult, rewarding groups and still offering the comfort of choice.
Second would be that I am calling this thread "...Missions" like in the Missions you access from the Missions menu because it would be the easiest way to just have a section with missions for two, three or four people that tells you how many people you will need (but you can of course bring more, because, hey, why not).

I am sorry, I get really unfriendly after some time in the forums. But really, was that so difficult? What did you think, that I want these passages to be randomly spread about the clockwork without any warning that you might be stuck if you don't bring friends? That I chose to name this "missions" because I want it to be normal puzzle rooms?
Then again, you ARE asking exacly that. Did it make sense to you? Did it seem like something that would make sense to others?

Sun, 09/15/2013 - 02:03
#11
Subsequent-Support's picture
Subsequent-Support
New stuff. Nick said so.

Hopefully the new challenge mode will fix this.

Sun, 09/15/2013 - 06:22
#12
Narfle's picture
Narfle
+1

I agree, it would be nice to have some genuine co-op content in SK. Depending on the ranking/reward system for Challenge Mode (whatever it ultimately becomes), perhaps we might see some, however I would foresee a lot of complaining from some members of the community for having to... well, cooperate. I think OP's suggestion for a dedicated group of co-op missions for X number of players is the best option--that way those who are specifically interested in co-op gameplay can have their fun, and OOO can avoid snarking from folks who don't want to rely on their teammates randomly running into a co-op level in the CW. Could even be a fun new DLC, call it... The Legend of Alpha Squad, or something--Spiral Order is looking to form a new Alpha Squad to go looking for any evidence of what happened to the original members, players are called on to attend a series of advanced tactical training sessions for Alpha Squad candidates, something goes horribly wrong, mini-boss fight, etc.

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