Spiral Knights - Support issues and lack of response

Support issues and lack of response

20 replies [Last post]

Wed, 09/18/2013 - 03:38

Dead-Giveaway

I'm here for a friend of mine, a guildmate, asking on his behalf, because he cannot post here (before you ban me mods, read the post) the reason he cant post here is ridiculous, as the accusation has no merit, that being said, after a whole week of runaround, i've decided to post on his behalf here to get some answers, he is owed that much at least.

The player i am talking about is called "Blade-----" I censored the rest of the name since i do not know if naming him is against the rules in this situation, if needed i'll mention his name in another post if needed but i think his situation is precise enough to not be lost in the thousands of messages the staff gets.

Anywho, let's get to the substance, My guildmate was banned from spiral knights, why? for evading his ban, now usually this would end there but that being said, we're appealing this ban as this accusation is not only false and laughable but probably propelled by an angry player with a vendetta.

Now let's take a look at the facts

this players MACHINE ID has been using the same account, the same knight, on the same steam account from mostly the same ip addresses for the past 8 months at the LEAST (i doubt he knows how to reset it but then again, i don't know if his isp does routine switches)

He has been a regular customer to your company by buying ce on occasion and elevator passes

In my opinion, you cannot prove that he has evaded a ban so i come to suspect that the staff does not check background information about players before banning them and possibly bans them out of random in error.

Now here's the little ick

this player is married to a woman older than he is, with whom he de-facto fathers a kid old enough to play spiral knights, notice that 8 months figure? It's because 8 months ago, his step son was banned from the game on HIS computer, for probably stealing materials from a guild hall treasury (IMO this does not warrant a perma-ban on the first try, it's the guild fault for not regulating it's mats better but whatever) This kid now has his own computer on which he does NOT play spiral knights. this was back in janurary-february so 7-8 months ago, the ban was appealed but was refused, and such the ban was accepted, now if the staff had a decent banning system, they would have found this out within a week or so at MOST, or at least the minute my friend logged in, that was not the case however so i have no reason to suspect that this paragraph may be the reason for his ban, i in fact refuse to believe it.

Now here comes the insulting part:

for the past 2 days, he has not received any reply from support, the last item demanded was his paypal email and his last transaction on steam/spiral knights, now i can understand that these things take time but let me ask you this

1. does he not deserve the right to defend himself on this forum and not be treated like collateral?
2. does he not deserve at least a small explanation or idea of what the staff is doing and how to fix this tragic problem?
3. what proof does the moderation staff, have against my friend, who i am defending?

I am ready with a bunch of guildies of mine, possibly the entire guild, to put our accounts on the line as a show of solidarity that this man's ban is injust and wrong and i hope that this problem will be solved shortly, i hope this ban will be removed as this is outrageous.

if you see posts of support below, you can almost bet they are from our guild

- eternal legacy.

Wed, 09/18/2013 - 03:43

Dead-Giveaway

P.S i tried making this known

P.S i tried making this known to a game master about a week ago, he answered me 10 x quicker than they answer him, telling me to mind my own business in polite terms

Wed, 09/18/2013 - 03:55

Sherperd

This case should be studied

This case should be studied by the banning system.

Sherperd

Wed, 09/18/2013 - 04:10

Chaosknightblaze

This is insane

Seriously? All this over a petty argument??? I mean cmon OOO was sinking but i never knew it'd hit rock bottom (come at me bro). Take an innocent player and put him a situation like this and then ban him even though he has not crossed any boundaries of SK's terms. In my book this sort of matter can be "excused" since this thing escalated from an argument AND on false terms to add. My thoughts? Pathetic. If it aint broke dont fix it but in this case we are talking about monkeys on typewriters. This sort of stuff pisses me off, since i am a long time fan of the game and second of all have seen [scrap] blow up in SK before.

P.S i agree with Sherperd that this should be looked over again, this is ridiculous.

-Chaos

Wed, 09/18/2013 - 04:10

Scriggles

How do you.. evade a ban?

How do you.. evade a ban? This is preposterous considering you are either banned, or not banned. I'm pretty sure you're not given the choice to go and 'be banned'.

Wed, 09/18/2013 - 04:52

Hizzyloca

Frustration

such a ban without an explaination has been a constant source of frustration from the sk community please review and unban our friend hes a good guy.

Wed, 09/18/2013 - 04:53

Tay-Va

Actually, this has me

Actually, this has me concerned on a personal level as well as for my friend. My nephew and I both use my computer to play SpiralKnights. We are in different guilds and don't have the same friends, but what you're saying is, even if I don't do anything wrong, if he does, we're both banned? And then the other thing you're saying is a ban for any offense, even if you don't know what it is, can come at you from any time period and be enforced at any time?

Being banned can happen because of collateral damage? Guilt by association? I'd say this needs to be looked at again.

Wed, 09/18/2013 - 05:58

Usaada

Sounds familiar, actually...

This reminds me of a case in the past where a friend was worried that her account would be banned because she used the same IP and computer as her younger sibling, who also got banned. Of course, she stayed in contact and was allowed to continue playing. This player, however, is not being afforded that same chance at all.

I'm starting to think the policy for banning every user using that single computer (to prevent ban evasion) is a bit broken when it also starts banning decent users who just have siblings that horribly misbehave. Is the rule suggesting that we never allow a certain age group or a certain type of person to play the game at all? Should households not share computers? Is the moral: "Don't let your silly kids play on your computer, it'll hurt everyone who plays." ?

The offense should be per-account, not per terminal. This entire issue is the equivalent of banning MAC-Addresses on first offense, and is really unnecessary.

Wed, 09/18/2013 - 05:20

Dead-Giveaway

most likely thing to happen,

most likely thing to happen, this thread will be deleted and all of us banned from the forum, i don't think there will be any cooperation from the staff at all. sadly, i agree with our skype convo.

Wed, 09/18/2013 - 05:52

Dead-Giveaway

we found a little something

18. Termination. Either you or Three Rings may terminate your account and this agreement upon notice at any time without further obligation to the other. Further, Three Rings reserves the right to terminate the Site, Services and/or Games, or any part thereof, at any time without notice and without further obligation to you. IN NO EVENT SHALL YOU BE ENTITLED TO A REFUND OF ANY FEES OR PRORATION THEREOF. UPON TERMINATION OF THIS AGREEMENT, YOUR ACCESS PRIVILEGES TO THE SITE, SERVICES AND GAMES WILL TERMINATE AND YOU WILL FORFEIT ANY UNUSED SERVICES THAT YOU PURCHASED OR RECEIVED PRIOR TO TERMINATION. A member whose account Three Rings has terminated may not access the Site, Services or Games in any manner or for any reason without Three Rings' express, prior, written permission. Termination of this agreement shall have no effect on any payment obligation accrued prior to the effective date of termination. The following sections shall survive termination: 7(1) and (2), 8 and 14-21.

this in no way says that machine bans are in fact a thing, in reality, our friend might have a good chance at a consumer protection case, disregarding the "we can do what we want to your account" clause

I didn't come up with this, but its true, in all reality, three rings, you are breaking your own terms of service by this logic.

EDIT ; sorry for the double posting

EDIT 2 :

Behaving and Misbehaving
The most important part of Terms of Service relate to behavior: Common sense, consideration, and reasonable behavior are expected in the game. Together, they make Spiral Knights an enjoyable game for everyone. When a report is received about a knight who is behaving badly, a Game Master will resolve the situation as they deem appropriate for the good of the community."

and

"Account Security
Keep your account safe! - No one except you should ever know your password or have access to your account. It is forbidden to share passwords or accounts, grant someone else access to your account or access another knight's account. You are responsible for the security of your account data and are likewise responsible for everything that happens on your account, including rule violations of any sort. You can find more information on how to protect your account in this article about account security."

AND

http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Account_security

do not cover multiple accounts on the same computer, they don't cover a family member or any random person when they log in to their OWN account whether it be steam or otherwise for their OWN knight, their OWN spiral knights account for their OWN purposes. It only states that accounts can be banned if someone has your account info and uses it for ToS violating purposes, it also discusses hacking and such but does not discuss the GM's handling of these situations at all, I'll add more when it's found.

Wed, 09/18/2013 - 06:35

#10

Turbinator-Turb

I strongly believe that,

I strongly believe that, despite the company can terminate one person's account if they have the necessary evidence to do so but banning someone for evading ban?

I mean, yes, you may have the reason to do so but the player, aka my guildmate, ought to know how and why was it like that, even if the ban was gonna be uncontested.

I am a game master on another game I'm playing on, and as much as I understand that there are certain behind-the-scenes things are not allowed to let the public (or via support request) know but I don't see any reason why the person in mentioned in this thread can't even get anything (even if it's just short explanation of the ban) out of you guys if he already sent support request (with the possibility of necessary documents)?

Every other games I knew of, allows their "banned" users to appeal their ban and they should sort of getting a short explanation on why was he banned (not just "banned for evading ban" but slightly elaborate on it), even if the so-called appeal was/will be rejected.

Wed, 09/18/2013 - 06:38

#11

Zurgh

there is no way he deserves this ban

He has been such a great guild master and probably one of the nicest people I've met in this game.
There is no way he would do ANYTHING that is against the rules..
This case should be studied by the banning system again! :(
We miss you!

Wed, 09/18/2013 - 06:55

#12

Leeroyj

I hope a fellow guild mate

I hope a fellow guild mate has an opportunity to clarify the situation he is in.
thank you for your attention on this matter.

Wed, 09/18/2013 - 06:55

#13

Leeroyj

I hope a fellow guild mate

I hope a fellow guild mate has an opportunity to clarify the situation he is in.
thank you for your attention on this matter.

Wed, 09/18/2013 - 07:03

#14

Famousexe

Head Guild masters slice of the cake of justice

As the founder of Eternal Legacy I find that this is most outrageous.

I speak for my entire guild, my fellow spiral knights players in the community and especially said (unjustly) banned fellow guildmate/Co-Guild Master when I say the following:

as a veteran player of this game I have seen and heard of many stories and situations in which players have been banned/punished majority of them were valid with evidence supporting said claims however in SOME cases there were players who did get an opportunity to appeal the ban.

what makes this situation any different? isn't managing a gaming community about having the right facts, figures and details PRIOR to making a judgment on a player(s)?

also i would like to say that this is what those of us in the business love to call poor management. as a company your biggest asset isnt the game or the revenue it generates but the players who play this game and spend both large amounts of time, effort, energy and MONEY on this game.

by attempting to isolate "fabricated/unsupported/unjust" claims of "TOS breaches" it simply makes your positions as developers and community moderators look incompetent and woeful.

I would hate to be in the position you guys are in because by alienating players without JUSTIFIED and PROVEN evidence and hard facts you will only be harming your infrastructure. you as a company may have the power to ban or get rid of players but we ultimately have the power for forfeit the game entirely if we as a community are not given the respect we deserve and part of that is being given a chance to let our voices be HEARD AND RECOGNIZED we are not numbers.

OOO you all need to check yourselves SPECIFICALLY the communications management team and the people responsible for moderating player involvement/activity

how dare you try to insult us as a community by acting in such a manner.

you are a business we expect you to act like you are worth doing business with and if not then we can VERY easily take our business elsewhere and take everyone else with us.

in short: belittle the players => loss of players through rejection and alienation => word spreads through the gaming community => more players leave => loss of revenue => loss of credibility and reputation => game fails and you lose

Wed, 09/18/2013 - 07:06

#15

Little-Juances

"1. does he not deserve the right to defend himself on this forum and not be treated like collateral?"

1. Obviously no, unless you want the whole forums to see his paypal details and personal stuff.
Like right now I know he's married to a woman, he has a stepson... stuff a psycho killer would want to know...

As tragic as the story is you can't prove it's true either. Sharing it with everyone is meaningless as cold as it may sound.

Wed, 09/18/2013 - 07:12

#16

Dead-Giveaway

@juances Obviously i didn't

@juances
Obviously i didn't mean posting his personally identifiable information on the forum, but hes being ignored by game masters, does he not deserve to be able to post an appeal here if the game masters are possibly ignoring his support requests?

second you don't even know his spiral knights name, let alone any personally identifiable information, you did a very big jump to come to that.

another thing, we can actually prove it, if three rings holds detailed logs per user, we can prove it quite easily, in fact, if we can get steam logs, on what times he played spiral knights and such, that would contribute even more, sharing it with everyone on this forum gets posts, it gets noticed, it at leasts gets peoples attention, if enough attention is brought to this, i hope it can get formal responses and some dialog going on either his unban, or a complete refund of his account, as this ban was completely unjustified until proven otherwise, the burden of proof is on three rings as they committed the action, not our guildmate.

That being said, if three rings wants to "play ball" we can make our case here.

Please in the future, contribute something constructive, not pessimism, thanks.

Wed, 09/18/2013 - 07:38

#17

Leeroyj

i do not think its necessary

i do not think its necessary to shout / insult / be sarcastic / be challenging. to be fair, we all know the system is blind - & often it is - as Juances puts it - difficult to know the "truth". and so, usually, blanket rules apply. in any case, most ppl will claim to be innocent, even when they are guilty. to put things in a broader perspective, there have been people put to death, for crimes they did not commit. having said that, its really tough when u r on the receiving end.

but what I hope this thread opens up - is a platform for knights to explain their situation to the developers - so that the developers can consider reviewing on a case-by-case basis. understandably, there will need to be logistic support to do that sort of thing. hopefully, it can be done.

thank you for your effort in continually trying to improve on a system - whether game-wise. or in terms of managing conduct of players, in your virtual world.

Wed, 09/18/2013 - 09:47

#18

Archaeanthus

Communication and appreciation

First I'd like to say that I feel it's very telling so many people have taken this opportunity to leap to our guild members defense. That's telling, and I couldn't ask for a more perfect example of why I joined this guild, and in fact why I continued to play Spiral Knights well past what I had considered to be my personal due date. What I find most striking about this situation is that the fellowship, understanding and continuing support/appreciation that any member of our guild might show to another, regardless of rank or association is EXACTLY what a game company should strive for. There are a lot of people playing this game, and it's absolutely absurd for me to assume that the OOO staff are going to be able to address each issue that arises with the care and interest that I wish I could see, but the telling issue is the complete lack of support. When you find yourself in this position as the owners, developers and contributors to a title such as Spiral Knights what you've done is created a community, one in which you represent the central authority. I've had a tremendous time playing your game, to the point that I made purchases based not on need or desire so much as a legitimate belief that you hard earned that much from me, and that a purchase of some variety for the sake of supporting an amazing game was truly owed. Lately I've found myself growing away from a number of games, not dissimilar to this one, not due to a lack of enjoyable content or faulty gameplay but because the relationship between the staff and players was of unfortunately poor quality. I'm continually distressed by the fact that appeals to potential financial loss and gain seem to be the most efficacious and forthright manner of garnering attention from employees in these circumstances, and the response is often negative despite the overwhelming presence of mitigating circumstance.

As a reasonably close friend to the player in question, and a fellow guildmate I have been left with absolutely no choice but to attempt to defend him because it seems that otherwise your staff would leave him defenseless. I hope you understand when I say that I'm not attempting to threaten, or cajole, but attmeping to provoke understanding when I say that even something so small as a forum response from a staff member in this thread would go a long way towards restoring my faith in modern gaming communities. I hope you understand that "the bottom line" may be a financial phrase, but in this case refers to your players sense of satisfaction, and the relationship of trust and appreciation that you mutually share.

Thank you for your time.

Wed, 09/18/2013 - 18:05

#19

Dead-Giveaway

still no acknowledgement from

still no acknowledgement from the staff lol

Thu, 09/19/2013 - 08:06

#20

Eurydice

Community Manager

OP, this isn't your first

OP, this isn't your first rodeo with the forum rules, but for a refresher: per the forum rules, please send ban appeals and related issues directly to support so that they can be seen quickly and escalated appropriately when necessary.

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Support issues and lack of response