Anyway, I've probably missed out some part while reading the update or any other posts
However, I have a question for you and...
Is there a possible chance of changes made to crafting fee?
If you're unable to confirm it or wish to not disclose about possible changes or not, a 'Unable to confirm' would be more than enough :)
bumped. Looking for answer as well
Well, from the posts that you guys are constantly repeating, I do feel that you guys are pressuring for an exact answer that, to be honest and let's face it, is not possible as Eurydice is not given the 'OK' sign to release those information.
Instead of asking for a more specific answer, why not ask for a confirmation that they are handling these issues? why not ask if these solution are being taken into consideration, which to me, basing on the previous few posts that Eurydice herself wrote *though not very obvious;read in between the line or I actually just misread it*, are actually being taken into consideration or have actually been taken into consideration.
Wait, who are you talking to? My posts have been quite diverse and if there's any "exact" answer I'm looking for it's: am I the wrong kind of player for the game you envision? That is more about general then exact answers though. And tsengbang is just reaffirming your question, so who is this "you guys"?
Didn't Eurydice already log off for the day? Better wait for an answer tomorrow... or maybe Monday, depending on work schedule.
However, this post will be dedicated to bear
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Well, yeah definitely, give them some time, we should be more reasonable and they are definitely not messing with us.
We, should definitely give them some time, you can't expect a small team whom took days to build an AH from scratch to solve all your problem in one whole day, I say give them at least one week to clear all this mess.
We, should definitely be more reasonable, Why? Hey, if you read Old Preview Players Answer This (if you can), you'll then know why they've accidentally landed themselves into this pit.
They are definitely not messing with us, again Why? Come on, who wouldn't want to make a game they like and then keep it going? Why the hell would they want to purposely demote their own game? Even if so, they must in a 'going to be bad' situation in sustaining the game as a F2P Game.
What you were asking is,
1) What is the balance problem with high level gear being "more common than intended".
The Problem itself is very obvious, if you took notice or followed the /2 trade. There had been an increasing number of people selling high level gear such as Vog Cub/Sealed Sword Series and more. Due to this, there had been a great drop in the prices of each equip because of the initial cost of making one, without including the cost of the recipe, dropping from 5k CE to merely 2.5k CE?
2) What is the intended progression for a player like me?
I'm pretty such this pretty much covers most of it.
What Works, and What Doesn't
3)4* and 5* gear proliferation is not a new phenomena, why did you feel the need to bundle all of the changes with the AH and try to focus exclusively on that one feature until the community exploded?
4* and 5*, explained in 1). Next is, I would assume that they were planning to do these changes, but many people gave a lot of good suggestion and were actually pressuring them to have an AH asap and hence the bundle.
4) Given that my primary use of CE was crafting it's value has been slashed to 1/3 of where it was before the patch. Did no one consider that bait-and-switch is not a nice thing to do to players?
It's definitely not a nice thing to do, but some time they have to do it. They may have overdo thought?
Btw Eurydice did mention #14 of Question for Eurydice - RE When to expect Dev Responses?
5) Am I unwelcome in the game given the amount of real money I spend? Or rather, was SK designed for people who either have much more time or are willing to spend three times as much money?
All games are out to welcome players, in fact, or actually attract players. The reasons above are my reasoning for accepting this changes but I am still looking/hoping for a possible slight change. Given that SK is a game where free players get what paid players get but over a longer time, I believe that time = money and likewise. However, too many are possibly reaching the end game way too early than expected and are missing out the actual fun of exploring dungeons from bottom to top and crafting your own equipments.
From me,
Hi there, seeing that the current situation between the community and developer, I do not wish to bug you for any unimportant issue but I do feel that the players are constantly repeating issue without asking for an actual answer first but instead constantly give suggestion and are trying to force out an actual 'promise'.
and so, not in the name of the community but as a player myself, I would like to ask if there are an effort put into these areas and, if there's no objection, I would post these answers on the forum, hoping to help answer some of the problems that have been constantly reappearing.
1) Is there any nearby plan to change crafting cost?
2) Is there any plan to improve warning message of possible upcoming update?
E.g. Stating there will be a possible update between xx.xx hours to xx.xx hours. I do fear that people may end up requesting for an even more specific timing though.
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Their response (mnemosyne),
Greetings! Everyone on the Spiral Knights team is keeping a close eye on the feedback from the latest series of updates. When we have something to share with the community we typically do that with a post on the forums, through in-game mail, or with a blog post. When the developers or one of the community managers has an answer or a statement that we can share, then it will go out to everyone through one of those avenues.
That said, I'm afraid I have nothing new to share with regards to crafting changes, or any future updates. Sorry. As I said, we are keeping an eye on the feedback, and we'd all like to keep the players more informed prior to major changes. When we have more to share, we'll be sure to post it.
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Syor's interpretation.
So let me split this up a little,
1) regards to crafting changes, there could be no changes made, but that doesn't mean there isn't. I'll just keep my hopes high first.
2)They are definitely working on informing us earlier, but that's mainly, note mainly, on major changes. I guess I forgot to mention about minor changes like bugfix
You gave the impression that "you guys" were a problem in this thread, sorry if I misunderstood.
You restated what I said in expanded form. There is a reason why I referred to those three as "reasonably sounding answers". They are perfectly correct, reasonable and utterly besides the point. Filler if you will, it makes people who don't follow things closely feel that there is communication.
In fact, we don't know much more then we did when the patch was released. Nick gave some general goals but it doesn't really say how the changes are supposed to get us there. They are supposed to be the best option... but then there would be no need for an unbinding shop. And nothing so far explains the recipe price drop, on the surface it goes against the stated goal of making 4* and 5* stuff more rare.
Your speculative attempts at answering some of my questions seem to suffer from these same problems, that is reducing a multifaceted problem to a simple one liner and restating in a preferable way. To elaborate:
1) It's just a restatement of "high level gear is too common", yes I read the release notes. It certainly doesn't hurt other players, nor does it make earlier levels much easier as it's nerfed there, so it's not a gameplay balance issue. It also doesn't matter what was planned, since as I stated in the question, the game different in many aspects than it was originally represented. So what is the actual problem with this? That there isn't enough to do with your gear? Slowing things down certainly won't give us more things to do. Also, this is not the reason given, just speculation.
2) It doesn't, applying in-game time measurements is pointless on a diverse player population. If that was the official response then I'd know for sure that the only player they care for is one who plays for as long as possible (read, I'd leave ignoring my sunken costs). Doing the same thing over for a half a year is very different then doing it for a month, even if the total play time is different. The question stands, was I not supposed to enjoy the game, but did due to a mistake on their part?
3) This has only minor relationship to the 1st question. The crafting changes were minor and could have been out much sooner on their own. If the problem was as serious as the heavy handed measures indicate then the only reason to bundle is to give something else for players to focus on. If that was not the reasoning then I'd like to hear it.
4) It doesn't matter what was discussed behind closed doors. Nothing was done about the bait-and-switch. Fact is, I paid for crystals that were much more value, I have been cheated and sympathy doesn't help since they already hold my dollars.
5) This is untrue. Different games are designed with different play styles in mind. For example, a player not willing to pay the monthly fee for WoW is unwelcome there. These change does little to encourage people willing to pay to avoid the exploration to do so, just requires them do pay more. OTOH I was exploring but the balance is completely out of whack for me and I'm unlikely to continue if SK is indeed catering to a different audience.
There is nothing wrong with that, I would just like to know before I sink more time and money into the game. Being more upfront about their goals might have prevented me from doing so in the first place though.
Bump this. As I really wanna know it too. Any plans to currently make the CE alchemy cost less costly again?
I'm going to bump this as well. I think that OOO is ignoring us because they know how many people will quit if they give a solid NO to this question.
Second this bump. I would respect OOO a lot more if they'd give us a simple answer, or at least tell us the REAL reason behind their decision.
If this is a result from SEGA's higher-ups pressuring them, I understand completely. Even an answer like "company policy requires a more thorough method of generating revenue" would suffice as well - we all know top-level executives don't really care about what makes games like this great and are only concerned about the bottom line.
This utter silence though... it reeks of fear, and cowardice. And to think, all it would take is a bit of TLC to make things... well, not all better, but it'd be a step in the right direction.
but yea I still want a simple answer :)
Eurydice can't comment on something like this, really. C'mon. It's a heated and controversial issue that has a ton of shouting about it already, and one wrong word could make things worse - there is no -way- that she's going to ever say anything on this issue. I'm sure nick will say something if they decide to change it back or at least scale it back.
I do hope that they decide to restore original CE costs when they create the unbinding ability - they can gouge CE for people unbinding weapons and that's fine, being able to buy straight into the end game if allowed at all -should- be expensive.
Of course, everyone assumes it's about profits as such and not about a CE sink to counter the crown sink of AH. Imagine what would have happened to CE prices if crafting CE -hadn't- gone up. Of course, a more moderate auction fee like 5% and no CE crafting cost change would've had about the same impact on CE prices as we actually saw... but for some reason they are fixed on an extortionate auction house fee. Which can't be about profits, because they don't make money from crowns and crown sinks. It may just be to force volatile auction house prices - you can't buy out undercut bids until they are undercutting by 25% or more, it's just not worthwhile, therefore prices bounce up and down like crazy on all but the most common commodities.
However, well, the heat amplifier isn't much of a CE sink given the cost, but unbinding will be, so. I hope to hear from nick then, but it's a waste of time to demand an answer from someone who is surely not authorized to give one.
I sincerely hope they roll back the CE costs of crafting at least a bit.
When I first started playing, I bought 3500 CE, and it lasted me the better part of a month. Now I've gone through most of that in about a week. It's a very dramatic difference, and the fact is that I can't afford to play this game the way I want to. I enjoy testing out different equipment layouts and builds. Being able to diversify your character through equipment without having to create endless alts is one of the most attractive aspects of this game. With crafting costs the way they are, it's just not possible. I get that the developers need to make money, but I'm not willing to pay $30/month. I've been having a wicked time, but Spiral Knights isn't that good. I think it's fairly obvious that it's better to make money off of more long term players than by over-charging the community in the short term and losing players because of it.
Indeed. The price of the game should correspond to it's content. Spiral Knights' pricing does not correspond to it's content at all. I mean seriously, WoW subscriptions cost like 12 bucks a month.
Eurydice can't comment on something like this, really. C'mon. It's a heated and controversial issue that has a ton of shouting about it already, and one wrong word could make things worse - there is no -way- that she's going to ever say anything on this issue. I'm sure nick will say something if they decide to change it back or at least scale it back.
... [ snip digression ] ... I hope to hear from nick then, but it's a waste of time to demand an answer from someone who is surely not authorized to give one.
PFFFFFFFFFFT they wont talk because they are cowards and realized they have made a mistake or they don't want to admit it. Either way, they are slowly driving their game into the ground.
I've seen what happens when a vague answer is misread by already angry and mistrustful forum-goers. If it were my company, I wouldn't let anyone say anything until we'd decided for certain on a course of action and what it would be. Hinting about coming content builds excitement, hinting about pricing structure builds hysteria. The one is great to hint about, the other you only discuss when you have all your ducks in a row. (Hopefully you discuss it -before- the day you implement a major change if that pricing change is upwards. Surprising people with downward changes is generally much better received.)
In any case, this thread calls out Eurydice by name, and that was much of my point. She can't make announcements about certain kinds of information unless it's authorized. And if she does by some chance make an announcement on this point, it won't be an answer to a thread demanding an answer and bumped back up over weeks or months.
Nick, Eurydice, the community would like to know WHY have you NOT reduced the Energy costs for Crafting YET, despite the massive calls to do so. And why is the Heat Amp priced so prohibitively.
And why did you ignore several threads that talk about game-balancing, while we're on this chestnut.
Most of those several threads were in the WRONG section of the forum (They were, just sayin'. That's also my pet peeve...)
As for costs of crafting, they've only gone up once since preview. During preview EVERYTHING was less expensive because everything needed to get tested; maybe these "increased" costs were the originally intended price? In any event, it's clear that OOO is still collecting data about this issue.
If you really want answers, stop acting like you're entitled to have this game the way you want it. You're not. It doesn't revolve around you alone. You're irritating others when you presume that you know best. Honestly, the way you say things is much more important that what you're saying. Like Senshi said, OOO is probably worried that a certain group of players/former players will just twist any announcement into something unrecognizable. Also, it's really not good to call out a single GM----it really makes you look like you have an axe to grind.
They already made it clear, they said they wanted to make 4 and 5s harder to obtain, which does make sense, as before you could get all 5 stars in the first week, and 5 star is currently supposed to be the pinnacle for knights. whether they did it for money or for difficulty, up to you to decide.
and Nick said the heat amp was a premium item and they didn't expect a lot of buyers, deal with it. you're not effected by it, they didn't lower normal heat output 20% or anything.
Think carefully, what happens when you obtain all 5 stars? you think the repetitive motions to hoard money and get more fives is going to be so fun? better to have a fun yet difficult journey to 5 stars, don't like earning what you get? then you're on the wrong site.
running the same stage 10+ times to find one recipe, then running JK/tier 2 20+ times to get enough energy to craft it, then maxing the level on it after 2 runs.
There's nothing more fulfilling and dynamic than grinding in a non-grinding game.
why would they change the crafting fee? seems fine the way it is now
i think eurydice might have already been fired due to 3O's budget cut. firing non essential staffs during probation period incur much less costs.
plus whats to point of hiring someone to avoid answering any questions when they were doing it perfectly fine before.
purely speculations.
When did OOO have a budget cut? Also Eurydice isn't a mod, she was the Community Manager, she's who we are SUPPOSED to call out. It has nothing to do with axes to grind.
@Luden
At least two things in your statement are logically improbable. Please don't start stupid rumors "based on speculation".
@GodofSkype and anyone else expecting a response
Read Providence's response: If you really want answers, stop acting like you're entitled to have this game the way you want it. You're not. It doesn't revolve around you alone. You're irritating others when you presume that you know best. Honestly, the way you say things is much more important that what you're saying. Like Senshi said, OOO is probably worried that a certain group of players/former players will just twist any announcement into something unrecognizable. Also, it's really not good to call out a single GM----it really makes you look like you have an axe to grind.
Eurydice is NOT in a position to address the community regarding development of the game. She's here to collect data and maintain a relationship between the developers and the community. She is not on the development team, and she has no say in what goes into or gets taken out of the game.
The more you make unproductive threads like these, the more people like GodofSkype are going to find an excuse to bash Three Rings and make a bigger deal out of something than it should be. Stop acting like children.
I'm just asking a simple question, why are you guys over reacting to something as simple as this?
GOS has his issue and I just want a clarification from someone close to the team, even if it's an 'unable to confirm' response. Note: GM are not as close as the team.
and I'm just ignoring any other people whom comes up here and blabber about the many possibilities of what something can be seen as.
After all, I'm expecting a stupid answer for a stupid question, once again, hence the 'unable to confirm' response would be good enough.
Hi Lepreal! Again the community manager is responsible for talking with us and she's not.
Novareid, Senshi, and the quote from Mnemosyne are correct.
Here's the deal: We're still watching the data. No matter how much forum HWFO goes on about an issue, reacting prematurely without waiting for adequate gameplay data to come in for analysis would be plain stupid.
Calling any particular staff member out on the forums to demand that they "fix" or "address" the issue may feel good, but it doesn't change the fact that we must analyze a proper sample of the game data to see how a release--any release--is affecting our players' actual gameplay.
I'm starting to get the feeling that the only questions answered are the ones where a reasonably sounding answer that doesn't address the underlying problems works. A lot of "we're not deliberately messing with you" and "you should be more reasonable" and "give us time" type of answers in short.