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Lore Discussion: Fiery Goop that Salamanders spit (And now with the rest of the Lisk family!)

8 replies [Last post]
Mon, 09/23/2013 - 10:46
Ghret's picture
Ghret

This is just going to be a series of threads in which I am going to take various pieces of the Spiral Knights world, be they materials or concepts or other, and apply as much science as I possibly can.

How much science, you ask?

Let me put it this way - with the object in the subject header (the fiery goop Salamanders spit) - I have found out the most likely way that said spit is created.

First, the chemical that burns and makes that delightful red fire effect is: Calcium/Lithium/Caesium - Chloride. Any would do, but only Lithium or Caesium would be pyrophoric (self-igniting in the presence of warm air) to light the rest of the chemicals (But caesium is FAR too reactive to be consumed). Assuming that the spit IS created from a chlorinated Alkali metal then I can presume that the said molecule would have to be created. The initial thought would be some internal reaction to create the Lithium or Calcium-Chloride, and that is sensible; the stomach of a Salamander can be acidic (and chlorinated) to the point where lithium carbonate spontaneously forms inside their stomachs, but the sheer stomach-ache from this reaction (not mentioning all the other acid-based reactions inevitably going on) would make for one hell of a life. Evolution would undoubtedly scratch this method out.
So where else? Let us reconsider the idea of an internal synthesis, but replace the acidic nature of the stomach with a smidge more neutral one. After years of gremlin growth and industry it would not be unthinkable for acid rain - sulphuric acid and hydrogen chloride - to form, and if acid rain were to fall then if is entirely possible that a chromalisk would drink it and then adapt to thrive with it. And then it could consume some pieces of calcium or lithium carbonate after its drink of acid and the dissociated H+ ions could react with the carbonate groups and leave the alkalis to from chlorides with the chloride. Et viola! Alkali Carbonate that burns red!

But how does this compound not get absorbed and excreted by their digestive system, I ask myself? And I already had the answer before I even thought to ask. They have no intestines. Only a sack of walled muscle that allows the colonies of bacteria it received from its mother's milk in its youth to act as enzymes and fold and lyse the food it eats. The bacteria which was unable to survive the acidic environment brought on by the tart liquid the mammal drinks eventually died and their host along with them. Those that could would consume that which their host could not (grass and tubers) whilst they also digested that which the host could consume for nutrients and the like (meat) into molecules more readily absorb-able by the stomach walls.
This is what led to a freak mutation that left a poor chromalisk with bacteria that could form palmitic and napthanic acid (both components of napalm but with palmitic acid being a natural fatty acid) and a stomach wall that could NOT absorb it. And that's where the jelly substance comes from.
The way it is expelled is through the walls of the stomach convulsing explosively and forcing the accreted material up and out, usually also in an explosive manner. The reason why the stomach is able to do this is due to the fact that the stomach wall muscles resemble cardiac muscle that can be forced into action by the skeletal muscle covering the outside of it. A truly strange evolutionary adaptation. If I ever magically receive the ability to draw I will attempt to give a diagram of this organ.

Finally the reason why the regurgitated material is ignited at all is because of a pouch on either side of the Salamanders face that is able to hold material. The material in question being ground metal flakes. A protective secretion a.k.a. saliva stops them from harming the creature whilst being stored. When they need to be expelled the Salamander forces a vacuum within the pouches which causes metal flakes to gather at the enter/exit sphincter. When the Salamander expels the Alkali-carbonate/ethanoic acid mixture the creature may engage a series of muscles within its pouches which expel the now-dry flakes at a velocity that produces a spark, hopefully catching the expelled material within its arc.
The capability to expel an arc of fire would explain why Salamanders have such tough, broad teeth; for grinding down metals, no doubt.

And through these three processes; the accumulation of lithium carbonate in the stomach, expulsion of said material, and an ability to create a spark from the mouth, the Salamander can shoot fiery goop. The similar situation can be assumed to explain how other chromalisk sub-species can shoot their own special variety of goop i.e. diet and genetics.

Any questions?

What did I just read?
Exactly what you just read. If you want an easy-to-understand breakdown then give me a moment to let my brain process what I just wrote. Or ask the person behind you.
As for what you just read: You have just read a thesis on how chromalisks MAY have evolved a way to shoot fiery and other kinds of goop. Unfortunately I KNOW that what I just wrote would get thrown not only in the bin but would get mailed back to me after having been thrown into the bin to show me how terrible it was if I ever showed it to an accredited thesis committee.

So why did you do this?
Because I wanted to spend a couple of hours on this.

Mon, 09/23/2013 - 15:14
#1
Isekuube's picture
Isekuube
Derp. :3

What about the icy goop that the Tundralisks spit? Let's not be speciesist here.

Mon, 09/23/2013 - 15:34
#2
Feline-Grenadier's picture
Feline-Grenadier
Ho-hum...

Then are vials simply vials of Chroma spit reserved for later times?

Mon, 09/23/2013 - 17:49
#3
Battlegrinder's picture
Battlegrinder
Impressive Work, keep it up

I've done stuff like this before on a simpler level, and I must say you're much better at it than I am (though if you need any help with electrical stuff, I'm your man). I should show this to my sister, she's a chemistry major and would probably like it.

@DAt-Isey-Koobe: That's easy, their spit must contain a compound that has a freezing temperature well below the average air temperate, but higher than the Tundralisk's body temperature. What that compound may be, I have no idea. I guess that's another question for my sister.

Tue, 09/24/2013 - 08:57
#4
Ghret's picture
Ghret
Let me take your theory for a not-so-fun run.

If what you say is correct then that would mean that Tundralisks have a compound (or mixture of compounds) that allow them to stay frozen within their bodies, but when expelled as spit it begins to absorb heat and fall apart. Is this correct or has my sense of temperature gone with my sense of understanding on a honeymoon?

Anyway, here's the rest of my thesis' on the other 'lisks.

Chromalisk
These 'lisks are the progenitor of all other 'lisk sub-species which can attribute their various spitting abilities to how the muscles of the Chromalisk's tongue evolved to become the specialised oesophagus muscles needed to spit their stomach contents. (The particular path seems to point to a gradual drawing back of the chromalisk tongue into the oesophagus so that more of the tongue's length could be stored, it seems that it then became the muscles of the oesophagus and the Spitting Lisk's (as I call the Tundra, Salamander, Electro and Viral lisks) spike-like tongue becomes vestigial, relegated to push food around in their mouths.

But I digress once more, though not as severely, as to the nature of the Chromalisk's tongue. It appears to be just like a Chameleon's tongue in every single way. There are the accelerator and retractor muscles attached along the thyroid bone (Well, the 'lisk version) which lets loose and returns the tongue. Even the down to the presence of collagen to alleviate the problem of thermal sensitivity of muscles when throwing the tongue (although it also seems to be present in tongue retraction as well). The real difference is that it's tongue appears to have atrophied and been reduced to a connector muscle for bone-spike.
The bone-spike seems to be related to the 'lisk's own skeletal structure. Growing along with the 'lisk, repairing itself like a bone and even suffering any abnormalities that the 'lisk's bones suffer from.
This spike is what makes all those holes in our armour; sometimes even having forward-facing barbs to add injury to injury. And yet, there is something missing. Where are the backwards barbs? If the Lisks were a predatory specie, wouldn't they have backward barbs to reel in their prey? Only if they were insects. Can you imagine having your tongue trapped in the hide of an Alpha Wolver? Not nice. Which helps bring credence to my theory that Lisks are pack hunters, surrounding - say - a Wolver and stabbing it to death.

Kleptolisk
Effectively the same as the Chromalisk, except that it's tongue has actually specialised its muscles into a primitive hand. Probably to consume the leaves of the floaty trees in those Treasure Vaults they always seem to end up in. Though they still retain a short spike in the center of their hand, showing that they had evolved from Chromalisks AFTER the development of the spike-tongue.

Virulisk
The stomach of a Virulisk contains several colonies of bacteria that have been designated dangerous to life (This bacteria is usually inherited from the mother although there have been some cases of one Virulisk "donating" their bacteria). Thankfully, the stomach pH of a Virulisk is so high that the toxins produced are neutralised quickly into useful nutrients or harmless molecules. It is when they are expelled from this environment that they become hazardous. Without Hydroxide ions (OH-) to act as site-specific inhibitors to their various substrates the bacteria can now begin feeding on essentially anything, and pump out toxins. Thankfully, the bacteria also require Hydroxide ions to reproduce; so once the bacteria are expelled they will eventually die off, leaving their toxic remains behind - though they too will neutralised.

Electrolisk
I have absolutely no idea. Probably something involving dual stomachs where oppositely charged ionic matrixes are formed and then come together as they leave the mouth to allow their electron difference create a charge and excite their generalstructure my head hurts wtach this fuuny http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOG_UtLxh58

Tue, 09/24/2013 - 10:00
#5
Battlegrinder's picture
Battlegrinder
@Ghret

That's mostly correct. The Tundralisk spit likely has a freezing point so high that as soon it hits the air, it starts to freeze, and is nearly solid by the time it hits the ground (kinda like how water well freeze almost instantly if you dump it into liquid nitrogen). Since it comes out as a liquid or semi-liquid material, then it logically follows that the Tundralisk's body temperate is significantly higher than the freezing point of its spit (which would also mean that Tundralisk might be one of the hottest things in the clockworks, ironically enough). Example:
Air temperature: 70 degrees F
Spit Freezing point: 100 degrees F
Tundralisk body temperature: 140 degrees

Wed, 09/25/2013 - 07:07
#6
Ghret's picture
Ghret

My own idea involved an organic compound insulated from heat by a sticky saliva-like substance which was shed once the substance was spat out and allowed it - the substance - to begin an endothermic reaction which took in heat before its inter-molecular bonds fell apart. But that just seems silly next to what I thought of when I saw your explanation.

What do you think of the spit being a sort of organic liquid cooling system? By that I mean a system similar to lymphatic cells, where the substance travels along side the circulatory system bleeding off heat from cells into themselves. They then end up at special thermal nodes where their excess heat is bled off into the outside air. When the substance has bled off enough heat to near its freezing point then the anti-freeze liquid that these nodes produce keeps the substance from clumping together. It shouldn't be a far cry to get to a point where the Tundralisk has evolved the capability to rapidly eject large quantities of their freeze-spit as a method for removing large quantities of heat quickly, and a defense mechanism.

Wed, 09/25/2013 - 09:09
#7
Battlegrinder's picture
Battlegrinder
@Ghret

I think your heat-sink theory would work, however it does have few flaws. Active temperature regulation isn't usually done by reptiles, which would make Tundralisks a very unusual species (though to be fair, I have no idea how my system would work out the body temperature issue either). Having a cold-blooded animal with a preferred temperature as high as either of our theories suggest while living in an cold environment is a little weird. I'd also point out that if tundralisks needed to cool themselves somehow, it would be easier to just have blood vessels near the skin and cool them that way (elephants do this with their ears, IIRC). Having such a cooling system would make more sense from a biological standpoint and from a logical standpoint, as it would explain why tundralisks are so vulnerable to damage (any injury could tear open dozens of blood vessels/arteries) and why they are resistant to elemental and fire damage (the heat would cauterize wounds, and elemental damage doesn't seem to be as linked to kenetic force and physical trauma when compared to normal and piercing damage). But I digress. Either theory is possible, and its difficult to tell which one is more likely.

With the chromalisks dealt with (more or less) which monster family do you want to tackle next?

Wed, 09/25/2013 - 11:13
#8
Ghret's picture
Ghret

Going after any Constructs would involve talking more about their specifications and construction process than anything else; stuff like blade sharpness, maintenance, material stresses, stuff like that.

Doing Gremlins would involve some discourse about their physical structure and what adaptations led to it.

Fiends would involve more supernatural elements and talks about what the hell The Underworld actually is even supposed to be. Is it Hell, or is it Hades (or Tartarus, if you want to be specific)?

Undeads would be about what the creatures used to be.

Slimes and Lichens do interest me with ideas. Especially as to how Lichens can merge.

I don't think that there is much to talk about Wolvers (They're wolves, possibly dire). Except for how it appears to be that they can dig extremely fast without being specialised for it.

I have no idea where to go from now (except maybe towards Lichens) but I am going to discuss things of a less scientific bent not so far into the future. Specifically, Dead Gold. Look forward to that.

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