Guild Training Hall, Tier 3, Elite Iron Harness.
Dazzling Light Ray vs fiends: 76 (This is the one that is supposed to deal increased damage vs fiends and undead)
Disintegration Ray vs fiends: 82
I'mma mail support and ask them for a reset star.
It's official, OOO have zero idea how to balance things
Wed, 09/25/2013 - 19:47
Wed, 09/25/2013 - 20:08
#2
-----
zero
what
Wed, 09/25/2013 - 20:12
#3
Probably didn't factor in the
Probably didn't factor in the defense debuff when doing the damage balancing in the test server.
Oh well, all I use my pet for is the MSI anyway. Pet attacks are a joke and a half.
Wed, 09/25/2013 - 20:24
#4
@Retequizzle
Really? Because I've been using my Masky's Vengeful quills in Vana's room, Jelly King's room, and in dangerous situations when I need the debuff inflicted upon monsters. Spread poison is awesome.
Wed, 09/25/2013 - 20:26
#5
@OP
Ouch. Drakon FTW
Wed, 09/25/2013 - 20:29
#6
my 2 cents
@ Retequizzle too busy spawning 169 seconds single defense orbs with my Seraphynx to even bother anything else...
yeah you read right... 169 seconds... with 1 defense orb. Gathered by 3 different knights
210 seconds is the record so far for me as single seraphynx defense buff.
@ Zeddy to be fair... since when SK is balanced anyway? We should call this Wolver Knights, not Spiral Knights
Wed, 09/25/2013 - 20:32
#7
NOPE
@Kathrine-Dragon
Maskerwraith is probrally the most OP one
@Zeddy Wow, that is a little crazy, eh, it's like the cautuary sword vs nightblade.
Wed, 09/25/2013 - 20:38
#8
Not that I'm backing them but...
Maybe it's just part of a rough first release. They probably have fixes for it coupled with the arcade re-vamp and all, explaining why they haven't launched a fix yet. I mean that's not the only blemish, what with Violent HA being less-than-lethal, Auras breaking to ally sword attacks, Haunted Haze ghosts dealing single-number damage values, Firestorm being useless for damage.....
...Not making quite the case here am I?
Better use a reset star fast though, can't use 'em after you max out at Lv 105.
I reeeeeally hope you didn't max...
Edit: "First release". And then I realized there's a test server...
Wed, 09/25/2013 - 22:24
#9
balance is a fool's master
It took you this long to figure that out?
Wed, 09/25/2013 - 22:52
#10
Just wow
I can't really figure what to say to this. Do OOO ever bother to at least try test out what they make?
@Mihara They were working on this for SIX MONTHS. Six months to make a rough first release? I suppose it's acceptable by the low standrads we have come to expect.
@Whimisicality It's not like we haven't figured this out before, it's just that there is zero possibility of arguing that this is balanced. People who claim Mad Bomber and Chaos are balanced as it stands can at least claim that OOO seems to put extra weight on the second least occurrent status in this game, curse.
Honestly, this game is more imbalanced than Wizard101, where one of the seven classes can gain immunity to two of the other classes.
I give up, I will never make another thread about balance ever again. This game is a lost cause.
~Etha
Wed, 09/25/2013 - 23:35
#11
Balance pet? Pfft...
Don't you guys get it? Battle sprites are nothing but icings on a cake. What really matters is the knight him/her self and the weapons their carry ( they are the main DPS here, not the pet ).
Maskerieth's first ability is the best out of the three abilitie it has, the debuff is cool, but the cloak and the haze is pathetic
Seraphynix's first ability is crap, but heart attack and aura does a great job of defending.
Drakon's three abilities are all offensive, but still, since you can't spam them (activate all 3 of them simutaneously ) they are not all that great.
My zeratul (lvl 20~ maskerieth) does a good job debuffing the enemies in both JRP and FSC, but have no use in danger missions other than giving me additional damage/defence bonus. (it is a pet for the soloist, and I am a support knight... nailed it)
Their balance won't make much difference to the game over all so there is no point of complianing. They are just something OOO pulled out of their hat to allow us spend more time on the game. Their abilities ultimately affect the game lay very little.
Thu, 09/26/2013 - 00:20
#12
Balance is only half the issue, don't they test for BUGS? I mean come on, Violent Heart Attack isn't even an upgrade!
Thu, 09/26/2013 - 00:56
#13
@Midnight-Dj
Deadly cloak is probably the most overpowered out of the rest of the battle sprite skills combined.
Thu, 09/26/2013 - 02:43
#14
Deadly Cloak is good, but the long cooldown/short buff duration keep it from being Scorching Barrier/Caustic Quills (either ult) tier IMO. It's probably third best, ahead of Valkyrian Aura because of how easily you can abuse the double attack bug.
Thu, 09/26/2013 - 02:59
#15
@Midnight I might have to
@Midnight I might have to hold ya there, Discentigration Ray with the right harness tears anything in a vortex to pieces.
But yeah, maybe they are just icing that tastes better when you attack WITH them. Of course they're not gonna destroy all by themselves, they're support. But that doesn't mean they have to be THAT piss-poor on their own. I nearly cried when I got Firestorm simply because I didn't realize it was a status-only attack.
Whoop-di-doo. Fire. Hey don't I have fire swords and an Agni in my pockets somewhere?
Thu, 09/26/2013 - 03:13
#16
This is what the testing
This is what the testing server is supposed to be for.
I really don't get why they even have a test server when they make it so hard to actually practically test things in it. I tried testing out the battle sprites (a masker) when they were on preview and after about 20 minutes of feeding the sprite trying to test the ultimates I gave up, so no wonder stuff like this slips through. If they only want to give a couple days to run new content by the players at least make all the contest immediately testable.
Best thing OOO can do with new content is get it on to preview as soon as possible, keep preview open and updated as much as possible, and let people who want to test things (like our resident mad scientist Zeddy) access it by request (without the payed user entry fee). I used to play a little game called realm of the Mad God and their test server was open more often than not, which resulted in a community of people who discussed problems frequently with the developers and each other. A result of that was very few bugs and mistakes passing through to the live server.
No one expects the Spiral Inquisition! Our chief weapon is communication. Communication, availability and thoroughness... Three! our three chief weapons are communication, availability, thoroughness and shiny red uniforms.. Four, our.. I'll come in again.
Thu, 09/26/2013 - 04:55
#17
@Whimsicality
Spiral Knights having questionable balance is no secret. However, this particular example stands out as being extra offensive because they were released at the same time. Chaos and Mad were balanced with one another for a very long time, then one of them got changed and I guess they just kind of forgot the other?
Iron Slug lacks the stun on Callahan, sure, but I guess OOO figured with the relatively high amount of base damage, Slug would be overall more useful?
I just can't think of another example where one option so thoroughly destroys another equally presented option. There's Haunted Haze and Violent Heart Attack, yes, but those are bugs and bugs are hard to fix. This is just numbers and it should take a developer, with access to the exact workings of the mechanics and damage system of the game right there are their fingertips, something like 30 seconds on a calculator to figure out how to make the fiend bonus laser stronger than the defence debuff laser against fiends.
Thu, 09/26/2013 - 05:20
#18
@Zeddy
What about Blitz Needle vs. Callahan? They're both 5* piercing guns, however one is better in basically every way that counts.
Thu, 09/26/2013 - 06:10
#19
@Warp-Master
Not really. With some ASI under the hood, Callahan is safer than Blitz against a handful of targets. They're too mechanically different for a direct comparison.
Dazzling and Disintegration are identical except for the part where Dazzling is supposed to do more fiend damage but Disintegration actually does more damage to everything, including fiends, and also applies that bonus to anything else that attacks the target.
Thu, 09/26/2013 - 07:36
#20
just get a maskeraith and shush up
I chose a Masky and I'm glad I did. The Caustic quills debuff the monsters to the point where its a two hit kill. The cloak hides you from pursuing monsters and with either ultimate skill... you can either stun surrounding monsters when you come out of it or you have damage and speed bonus. The hexing haze is extremely helpful for knocking off health (ex. JK... with the dmg med vs slime perk... I do 230 dmg per hex).
Hence, Maskeraith is the most OP out of the 3 pets.
I have seen the Seraphynx in action and I can say it impressed me. The aura is just awesome as you can walk amongst enemies unmolested and the disintegration ray (WITH the appropriate harness) completely demolished anything in the laser path. Also, when dey be droppin them defense thingys... Longest I had was 205 seconds.
The Drakon? Hmm... the only thing I've seen useful with the Drakon was the attack where you have orbs floating around you (giving you defense boost and speed boost) is pretty OP. Other than that... I don't see its usefulness.. unless you just want to start a barbecue in the wrong spot because you can't aim right.
Maskeraith > Seraphynx > Drakon
Case solved.
Thu, 09/26/2013 - 09:17
#21
I've got a level 100 Maskeraith, but I don't see why that has any bearing on the fiend bonus laser being weaker against fiends than the opposing ultimate.
Thu, 09/26/2013 - 12:26
#22
No bugs with Drakon...I'm not aware of any bugs, anyway.
My L62 Drakon-
Firebolt (Full upgraded) - About 160+ damage, with about 65 bonus damage per tick on the fire status.
That awkward moment when your Sprite deals more damage than your 5* sword. (One of my Swords is Leviathan Blade, although it's only level 1 right now, because the forge is a real pain).
Shoulda' gone for Drakon. ;)
Thu, 09/26/2013 - 13:12
#23
mighty, firebolt has the same problem as DA charges, and so do firestorm and, apparently, fire barrier.
Thu, 09/26/2013 - 13:23
#24
@Thunder
I've never had any problems with the Firebolt, and I use Flame Barrier 99% of the time, and again, I've never had any problems with it, but I'm not sure about Firestorm.
Thu, 09/26/2013 - 13:35
#25
.
Drakon's firebolt is still pretty weak considering that it only has a chance to inflict fire and the initial bolt only hits once. Seraphynx's Ray hit multiple times.
Thu, 09/26/2013 - 13:49
#26
ermh....
Maskeraith cloak is the most overpower sprite ability.
And if you deny that then you don't know how to use Maskeraith properly. Simple as that.
Poison is not even close to a 40 secs cooldown invisibility and dmg buff...
Spamming Maskeraith poison only means you should've go with a Drakon instead, cause Maskeraith is all about prioritizing targets and special OHKO move.
Seraphynx laser is the most useful thing you will use against any boss... and if you don't then you are just ignorant... it deals overall 40 dmg more from a blitz and with the combination of Maskeraith quills (and cloak dmg buff) you can do normal dmg to the mask phase of Vanaduke...
Seraphynx aura is a "go now" ability that grant you the choice to walk over spikes trap w/o harm and can shield you from 3 trap dmg ticks.
Drakon first ability can stun each 16 seconsd, 2nd ability can be ult to MSI boost that is AWESOME (also shield you from traps, didn't check much though) and Drakon 3rd ability is awesome to dmg a pack of mobs
Overall: All sprites ability are good, you may use one over the other, but I can make them all work on different scenario and be awesome with it.
Maskeraith user should always pick up the strongest mob as they can cloak, wait for aggro to switch and finish it easily, while Seraphynx support/heal/distract and Drakon just charge in and bash on everything in sight... They are all good, yes some has little bug (did not know about the Sera aura being canceled, but I never use it in a fight scenario, it's useless and not his main purpose)
Edit:Drakon's firebolt is still pretty weak considering that it only has a chance to inflict fire and the initial bolt only hits once. Seraphynx's Ray hit multiple times.
Stun each 16 seconds vs defense debuff each 16 seconds... the first ability IS NOT ABOUT DAMAGE. Get that out of your head
Thu, 09/26/2013 - 14:52
#27
@Rhagnarock
You are aware that, in addition to inflicting poison, Caustic Quills do about 1500 damage (double that with vengeful) on their own every 16 seconds, right?
Thu, 09/26/2013 - 17:28
#28
@Rhagnarock
Stun each 16 seconds vs defense debuff each 16 seconds... the first ability IS NOT ABOUT DAMAGE. Get that out of your head
That's concussive firebolt. I never said that, now did I? What about the people getting the other ability that just makes its explosion bigger? I wasn't counting the ultimates at all. Stop assuming stuff out of nowhere. I was comparing the skills before the ultimates. Also, Concussive firebolt only has a chance to stun-it's not garanteed.
Thu, 09/26/2013 - 21:33
#29
I've heard a lot of people saying Firestorm doesn't even HIT half the time..
Fri, 09/27/2013 - 00:28
#30
Depends on how you deploy it.
Depends on how you deploy it. It stops on any sorts of walls, enemy shields included. That means if a Trojan happens to get in your way or a mecha decides to defend just then, it'll stop short.
For some reason, I can't take it seriously when people say Masky's cloak is OP...
I mean I get it's the 2nd highest ATK boost, not too far below spark revs, but it's only 2 seconds. Anything you can kill in 2 seconds with that boost, you can kill just by being good. When I go to FSC, I don't waste that on Trojans, I just blitz 'em. Rather make and poison shock pots if Masky's coming along.
Now yeah, I can see using it to get heavy progress on a boss, but situations like that point me to Firestorm and Discent. Ray so I may not know. I'm a support, not a solo.
And technically first attacks are about damage, ultimates or not. Each sprite gets an attack, a support, and a special so to speak, though the special May be geared toward attack or support itself. Sera is denial attack, Drak is potshot attack, Masky is compound attack. Drak just gets the functional short end of the stick sometimes, even more so when most 5*s farm a FIRE palace for funds. Prolly why anyone who gets him that high tends to think so. No additional damage from burn. Not on slags at least...
Fri, 09/27/2013 - 05:00
#31
@Mihara
I'd like to see someone try it with DVS on Vana's mask.
Fri, 09/27/2013 - 05:42
#32
I'm sorry, what was that
I'm sorry, what was that Zeddy?
My dazzling light ray sepharynx couldn't hear you over the sound of its prettyfulness and lack of bugtennaes. :P
Though in all seriousness this is another hilarious example of OOO being completely unable or unwilling to crunch numbers properly.
Although I work with a lot of excels and numbers at work, so I can appreciate how easy it is to let things slip.
It's still silly ^.^
P.S. We should test it on GitM lost souls.
Fri, 09/27/2013 - 06:06
#33
Frenzied Firestorm is by far
Frenzied Firestorm is by far the most epic aoefest ult imo. A large stack of mobs will really crack out attack power. In order to use it you really have to make sure there aren't any obstacles in front of you. It wont work if you try to use it on mobs you don't have line of sight on.
Fri, 09/27/2013 - 10:28
#34
@Aiden-Curry-Puff
To my awareness, Lost Souls are neither fiend, nor undead, nor have any defence at all so both lasers should deal identical damage to them.
Sat, 09/28/2013 - 04:47
#35
Well, OOO does not make good
Well, OOO does not make good decitions about numbers.
I mean in terms of damage,a fully upgraded maskewraith, outclasses the dragon in damage in every way.
Should this be taken care of as well? I mean, sprites were in development for a long time, should at least those little things have been thought of first?
Also as said above firestorm does NOT hit 90% of the time.
Sat, 09/28/2013 - 01:17
#36
I'm surprised that apparently I'm the first to report thinking that a coding error when implementing desired behaviour seems more plausible than an epic arithmetic fail when deciding what the desired behaviour would be. ...but yeah, hilarious testing fail either way.
If result when applying to Lost Souls is not the expected result, it might _elucidate_ the obscure mechanics going on under the hood, if only a wee bit.
Sat, 09/28/2013 - 05:38
#37
elthan, due to the cloak, maskeraith's abilities should do more damage by themselves, but drakon can deal damage on all three abilities so it's balanced.
that being said, causic quills deals a maximum of 900+ damage with the 4 quills limit on an effective target, while targeting something with dvs or blitz (effectivly getting rid of the limit) it does 1200+ damage. still have to try the last one out though, I'm basing on zeddy. anyway, drakon's fireball does a maximum of 260 damage on 4-5 different targets, so summing up 1040-1300 damage over 4-5 targets. anyway to hit more than 3 targets you need them to be in a singular poisition and (practically) to be zombies or retrodes. also there is a little chance to get those enemies in high numbers outside of FSC. not counting fire, that does an average of 85 damage oer tick (way more if it's a zombie, but that's another story, because of the places in which you enconter slags in packs), which counts up for 340 damage I guess.
then there is the balancing factor of the fact that drakon spreads damage way better than maskeraith (don't tell me haze, firestorm can be better, also flame barrier.).
Sat, 09/28/2013 - 06:03
#38
@Thunder-The-Bright
Ya, but the dragon is very sitiuational, the maskewraith can deal loads of damage easier and ultimates are devastating, yes dragon can spread damage, but the make, once upgraded can outclass the dragon in EVERY sitouation.
Sat, 09/28/2013 - 21:00
#39
Yeah...
Defense doesn't mean anything in this game. Offense is all the rage now.
The troika, spur, drake scale, cobalt, divne, grey feather, cutter, plate armor, jelly, skelly, and several other things need buffs.
They just aren't balanced. I am sick of seeing everyone wearing wolver suits. I am tired of seeing the brandish lines, I am tired of seeing the sealed sword lines.
I am just sick and tired of it.
The drakon is crap compared to the maskeraith and seraphynx, and the maskeraith is still the best sprite.
OOO should actually take advice sometimes.
Sat, 09/28/2013 - 22:47
#40
The only "buff" sudaruska needs is stun on the second hit (more of a bugfix)
Cobalt set is SUPPOSED to suck. It's noob gear. They already buffed it by giving everyone the recipes for free. Which some people take as a sign that they never need to buy a recipe ever.
Cutter line isn't that bad. It could use other lines, but the current 5* swords are at least on par with leviathan blade.
The Ironmight Plate set is fine. Though perhaps Volcanic could use some resistance besides normal.
Divine set is just fine.
Jelly set is just fine.
Skelly set is GREAT! It just needs some branches.
As for the sprites, all they need is some bugfixes.
Sat, 09/28/2013 - 23:11
#41
Cobalt needs to do what it
Cobalt needs to do what it says on the tin and actually be a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none armor set. It's no wonder that newer players keep wearing it when even the Hall of Heroes character describes it as such. I think the best way to handle it would be to cut its Piercing defense in half, and then give it equal amounts of Elemental and Shadow defense. That way, it provides at least some benefit no matter what you're fighting, but by the same token there's always a better, more specialized option out there.
Sat, 09/28/2013 - 23:21
#42
@Batabii
Actually, Volcanic armour has both elemental defence and fire resistance, so it's overpowered compared to Ironmight. Only the shield is missing elemental for no particular reason.
And Cobalt really should be an inverted Chaos, having 2 resistance to everything.
Sun, 09/29/2013 - 00:00
#43
Oh really? I guess I never looked past the shields.
I'd prefer it if they leave cobalt alone, but stop saying it's "all-around" when it's clearly not.
Zeddy, that's basically what Divine set is. Maybe instead of having 2 resistance to all STATUSES, make it have equal resistance to all TYPES (shadow/pierce/elemental) however, I'd still prefer that be separate from the cobalt line.
Sun, 09/29/2013 - 01:19
#44
@Sirius
The cutters are among the best normal damage weapons out there although not useful for all situations of course.
I personally picked up a Dread Venom Striker. Something people should take note of is that it can speed through its rotation of 10 hits in a matter of seconds so even though it only has a slight chance to poison it can be very misleading. The poison almost halves an enemies damage dealt meaning dread venom is pretty awesome if you wanna play a more tanky style or just want something to fluff up your enemies hits.
Sun, 09/29/2013 - 18:23
#45
they will kill us they will kill you
Perhaps if you moved this to Bug Reports then the moderators would consider reading this thread.
Sun, 09/29/2013 - 20:07
#46
dat balance.
If we're talking about sprite skills being useless, can we talk about Violent Heart attack not doing damage and Caustic Quills not working on anything bigger than a scuttlebot?
Sun, 09/29/2013 - 22:36
#47
VHA does do damage, it's just pitifully small and not showing on the display.
Mon, 09/30/2013 - 06:26
#48
@Sirius
"Defense doesn't mean anything in this game. Offense is all the rage now.
The troika, spur, drake scale, cobalt, divne, grey feather, cutter, plate armor, jelly, skelly, and several other things need buffs.
They just aren't balanced. I am sick of seeing everyone wearing wolver suits. I am tired of seeing the brandish lines, I am tired of seeing the sealed sword lines."
Uhhh... now? That has always been how the game has been. Nobody has really ever used any of those things you listed (except divine, it was used in the past but easy to get snarby gear has made it less useful). This isn't a recent thing. For two years that's the way things have been. The only thing really new is that chaos has made brandish spam affordable so there's a lot more brandish spam than sealed swords.
Mon, 09/30/2013 - 07:58
#49
@Sirius
Regarding the "I see brandish/sealed sword way too much" comment, what else where you expecting? Those respond are the only elemental weapons easily available to players (the hammer needs OCH). Most players in LD don't have elemental defence, so equipping one of those swords is the logical counter.
Mon, 09/30/2013 - 08:28
#50
Indirect Damage is Best Damage
I thought the idea was to use the quills to poison, not for their direct damage. Quills are op at vana and jelly king boss room. It's poison all the way down.
I'm done.