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Exchange Weapon Levels for UV Rolls for 5 Star Gear

19 replies [Last post]
Thu, 10/10/2013 - 10:15
Momofuku's picture
Momofuku

Suggestion first, explanation later:

Allow a Level 10 5-star weapon/armor a single UV roll in exchange for turning it back to Level 1. No double or triple UVs, obviously.

Explanation/Thought process:

Problems in a nutshell

  • How can we add new means of adding UVs to weapons without making it utterly broken and abusable?
  • What else can I do with 2500 Radiant Fire Crystals sitting in my inventory if I'm uninterested in making more weapons and can't sell them?

One disappointing thing as a result of the new forge system was there was no additional way to obtain UVs through this method. Granted, this is far too ideal compared to how broken it would be, although I would have preferred a UV at the same rate that Forge Prize boxes are awarded--which doesn't happen often anyway. I believe I've netted about 3 Forge boxes altogether from fully heating ~8 weapons since the update.

In general there are only two ways of obtaining UVs on a given equipment:

1. Roll it via Punch for 20,000 crown.
2. Craft it via Alchemy machine.

The strategy given #2 is to mass craft (ie. ragecraft) 2-star weapons in hopes of getting a UV. You end up with a bulk of gear that have no UV at all just cluttering your inventory that you can either sell for a loss in the Auction House or a greater loss via NPC. And hope this was the better alternative to the crown sink NPC, Punch.

The other problem as a result of the new forge system: excess Radiant Fire Crystals for end game players. Especially apparent for players who have all the gear they want and grind Vanaduke for cash. While recipes to convert high star crystals to lower star ones were nice, it actually costs a lot to convert them all (I believe it'll cost 50k in the crafting fee to convert enough radiants to get enough shining crystals to fully heat a 4 star weapon, roughly.)

Thus, by "resetting" a 5 star gear from Level 10 to 1 for a free roll, you create a new purpose for Radiants: exchange 453 for a 1-UV roll. You get to turn your fully heated, UV-less weapons into something possibly better instead of having it sit in your inventory as a niche item or something to vendor to the NPC later for 30k.

You can't abuse this method because you would have to fully heat your 5-star weapon all over again for the free roll, which takes an entire day or two, and even then you'd still have to work for heat. Not to mention you'd have to grind for the Radiants too, since not everyone in excess of Radiants has enough for more than a handful of rolls. The amount of runs you'd do to fully heat the equipment would more than net you the 20k needed for a single roll, too.

Obviously this would not work for lower ranked weapons since they are too easy to heat up and require fewer crystals. And performing 2 or 3-UV rolls should remain with UV tickets. It also cannot be a direct Fire Crystal > UV exchange since it's too easy to speed run for boxes and crystals only. The requirement of needing to heat weapons up again for the UV roll is necessary in preventing abusability.

Discuss.

Thu, 10/10/2013 - 10:32
#1
Khamsin's picture
Khamsin
.

On the one hand, I like the concept, on the other hand, those fire crystals are supposed to push your towards crafting new items.

Personally, I'd much rather see eternal orbs able to be traded in for UV tickets at some ratio. Since eternals aren't the biggest bottleneck for crafting, fire crystals are, those excess orbs could be let off through UV ticket trade-ins.

Thu, 10/10/2013 - 10:37
#2
Toeni-Sevan's picture
Toeni-Sevan
Unsure

With new gear coming around hopefully soon. (If it doesn't get delayed) I don't know about this kind of method.
20k versus resetting my weapon or armor is largely in favor of the 20k.
While this isn't an abusive change, I believe it would only cater to the few who have excess crystals, even now I'm trying out new kinds of gear and still scrounge for crystals. I realize many on the forums fit this criteria, but the playerbase as a whole probably doesn't. It's a good idea, but I'm not sure about how it can potentially discourage crafting new items to use.

Perhaps if we could reset weapons of 2* and up and balance the UV's it could become a system everyone could use. Resetting at 2* gives only low, 3* low and med, 4* low-high, 5* low-VH/Max. Or maybe just 2/low, 3/med, 4/high, 5/VH/Max. I'd go for the prior, since many would have problems with a guaranteed Max/VH. I don't have many decked out weapons or armor like some people do, but I'd understand why they would feel offended if they UV they spent so much on suddenly became easily available.

Thu, 10/10/2013 - 10:48
#3
Khamsin's picture
Khamsin
@Toeni

"but I'm not sure about how it can potentially discourage crafting new items to use."

This is my concern as well. A number of players don't actually have too many fire crystals, rather they're just stingy and don't want to craft new stuff when they like what they've got. This "solution" doesn't really help widen the appeal of playstyles, in fact it favors narrowing them, since once someone has UVs they like, they're even less likely to try crafting new items.

Thu, 10/10/2013 - 10:53
#4
Draycos's picture
Draycos
Very relevant. While this

Very relevant.

While this does give another use for Radiant crystals, it neglects the other ranks...

Khamsin, I think one of the biggest reasons for externals being worth less than radiant crystals is because of their bugged drop rates that lasted a week or so after the update.

Thu, 10/10/2013 - 10:55
#5
Little-Juances's picture
Little-Juances

Reseting the weapon to level 1 would give 9 chances of UVs in the form of tickets from forge prize boxes.

Thu, 10/10/2013 - 10:57
#6
Khamsin's picture
Khamsin
@Draycos

"Khamsin, I think one of the biggest reasons for externals being worth less than radiant crystals is because of their bugged drop rates that lasted a week or so after the update."

They still seem substantially more common than crystals. I'm sitting on something like 50 eternals and only like 300 something crystals.

I won't ever burn up all those orbs, even if they did offer orb downgrades.

Thu, 10/10/2013 - 11:59
#7
Momofuku's picture
Momofuku
Regarding node 90684, the

Regarding node 90684, the problem with changes vs additional function is that changes to existing UVs will undoubtedly upset people who have invested a lot into the game already. Given that SK has not had any rollbacks due to updates no matter how big or small, changes to material/equipment do affect the economy in a big way. UV balancing, without sufficient trial and error, is largely speculation about just how "balanced" they actually are.

I can understand the arguments regarding the shift in application of the fire crystals to make more weapons vs making your existing ones better. However, their original intent hasn't really worked, at least for me--having an abundance of fire crystals doesn't suddenly increase my desire to make more weapons, only orbs do. Having an infinite number of Fire Crystals doesn't change the amount of heat and grinding I needed to level up the weapons in the first place, before or after the Forge update.

Having more crystals doesn't make me want to get Orbs to spend the crystals on, the converse is true: having more orbs makes me want crystals to spend on heating them up. But the orbs requirement is strict--getting 3 Eternal orbs don't do me any good unless I also have 3 Elite, 3 Advanced, and usually 3 Simple too. The orbs drops are balanced in the sense that you aren't supposed to have an abundance anyway, but fire crystals have no application unless you have an item to heat.

The other thing is that this suggestion specifically applies only to Radiant Fire Crystals and none of the other lower tier weapons, and so the requirements to level up those weapons stays the same. Meaning if you are in T2 none of this applies to you anyway. This option simply allows you to grant 5-star weapons that you have crafted another means of obtaining UVs without necessarily being forced to spend 20k crown to roll. Or otherwise ditch it for mass crafting 2-star weapons or buying the UV from another person.

It is definitely not meant to cater to the masses, and that's kind of the point--their continued goal is to still collect the gear they need to progress. It's the same with Punch though: if you're scrounging up money to buy your first set of T3 gear, rolling for UVs at Punch won't be of much interest for you either. Punch exists much for the endgame players in the same way, a means to spend excess crown. This option is much the same; a means to spend excess Radiant Fire Crystal, which are obtained throughout d22-29; twice as many depths as all the other crystals are found in.

@#5: Given the rate of Radiant Forge Boxes, I can see nothing wrong with this. It's not like you can abuse this by resetting it to Level 1 mid level, the number of Fire Crystals to spend is still high as well as the time/effort commitment to heat in the first place. You can't heat weapons faster by bringing more 5-star weapons with you since it is divided evenly among them, additional players/alts in missions don't increase the amount of heat dropped either, and you can't share heat or even fire crystals.

Worst case, the Radiant Forge Box rewards can only apply for the first time you level a particular weapon up, or just lowered rate. Not a big issue.

The cost is intended to be greater than the 20k needed to roll for a UV. It's not a source of constant UV rolls which is a good thing. It's a nice alternative while still serving as a Fire Crystal sink, a resource many endgame players would like to make use of, without making it a gamebreaking advantage.

Thu, 10/10/2013 - 11:58
#8
Feyi-Feyi's picture
Feyi-Feyi

Momo, don't touch UVs. First rule of SK.

Thu, 10/10/2013 - 12:00
#9
Bitsbee's picture
Bitsbee

But I thought the first rule was-

Thu, 10/10/2013 - 12:20
#10
Draycos's picture
Draycos

@Feyi Why the heck not?

@Bitsbee And he was never seen again...

Thu, 10/10/2013 - 12:25
#11
Bitsbee's picture
Bitsbee

No, I'm still here. Feyi covered my mouth when I was going to correct them that the first rule of SK was-

Thu, 10/10/2013 - 12:25
#12
Khamsin's picture
Khamsin
@Momo

"However, their original intent hasn't really worked, at least for me--having an abundance of fire crystals doesn't suddenly increase my desire to make more weapons, only orbs do. "

Yes, orbs make you want to craft more, but fire crystals are the real bottleneck. Having fire crystals spent on something else simply causes those orbs to pile up even more.

Thu, 10/10/2013 - 12:39
#13
Momofuku's picture
Momofuku
@Feyi/Blitsbee: I touch them

@Feyi/Blitsbee: I touch them all I want! Touch them all over! >:O Be thankful I didn't talk about giving armor a "species type" too, where wearing Skolver/Snarbolax gear made you part beast and ...nevermind.

Of course the first rule of SK is to not mention anything about the new UV coming out with the gunner update...

@Khamsin: Fair enough--but it is an interesting problem. People who have the desire to craft a lot of gear will always be short of Fire Crystals, yet the people who have no such interest just let them pool up and wish there was some other way to make use of it. There isn't much of a way to help the former people without leaving the latter with an even larger pool of crystals they have no use for. Currently.

I can only help the latter group, which if people play the game long enough they will end up getting there.

Thu, 10/10/2013 - 12:37
#14
Khamsin's picture
Khamsin
@Momo

If people let their fire crystals pile up because they reject part of the game... that's really their own fault, not a playstyle we should encourage.

Thu, 10/10/2013 - 12:38
#15
Bitsbee's picture
Bitsbee

Can I touch it?

Thu, 10/10/2013 - 22:26
#16
Feyi-Feyi's picture
Feyi-Feyi

Draycos:

because Uvs are the only thing keeping A LOT of players in SK.
I don't want the system I spent all that money to be changed.
I want to keep my damn rewards, and make them as hard to obtain for everyone as they where for me.

Fri, 10/11/2013 - 04:18
#17
Draycos's picture
Draycos

Why does conquering a frustrating, entirely luck-based system mean everyone else should have to deal with it too? Just because you did it before them? Players have had a massive amount of time to use their pay-to-win buffs; isn't that an advantage in itself? Of course people shouldn't get them for free, but having a consistent means of progression instead of winning on your first roll and still being set back after your hundredth is fair, and above all else, way more enjoyable.

It's kinda like having to climb a broken ladder even though you could just build some stairs. The guy at the top of the ladder says you can't do that because it'd be unfair to him.

Kinda.

Fri, 10/11/2013 - 05:15
#18
Khamsin's picture
Khamsin
@Feyi

"because Uvs are the only thing keeping A LOT of players in SK.
I don't want the system I spent all that money to be changed.
I want to keep my damn rewards, and make them as hard to obtain for everyone as they where for me."

[Scrap] happens. I spent over 100$ in assets back in the day to get a shadow key when they came from lockboxes. Now you can get them for like 5$.

Fri, 10/11/2013 - 06:38
#19
Momofuku's picture
Momofuku
:X

An interesting parallel is that this applies in real life too--the wealthy elite or corporate heads do what they can to prevent the middle class from rising to that level (or making it harder), also known as "kicking the ladder," referring to having climbed the corporate ladder and kicking it off so that those climbing behind you don't make it to the top.

But I digress--I'm not arguing that point. It would be foolish to change the UV system without heavily considering how it impacts people who invested heavily into them vs those who can't afford to obtain them right now.

I still think this suggestion doesn't really... change things that much? There's no way this method would become anyone's primary means of rolling for UVs, as it takes far too long to gather the resources to do so. It's not meant to be a drastic change, but a "nice to have" and serves as one more fire crystal sink while rewarding the player in some useful way, especially endgame.

The combination of gathering fire crystals and heat, neither of which can be shared, as a means of rewarding a single UV roll, would be nice. It simply gives the endgame player an option of re-heating the things he has and likes, without being forced to make new equipment if he is perfectly happy with what he has, or his true intent is to make his existing gear better.

And because it is only an option, it doesn't affect the player whose primary goal is to obtain more gear. The new T3 player would play with this function but soon realize it's not meant for him just yet, because it took him so long to get his gear maxed already, and once he rolls a DMG Low Beast on his Divine Avenger he'll realize it's not worth the 453 Radiant Fire Crystals and heat he gathered in the last week--for now. Just like how he won't think the 20,000 crown spent on rolling a UV via Punch isn't worth it for now either.

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