So yeah the new pickups got added, and it seems that the drakon users got ticked off about this, saying that OOO made drakon completely useless.
It is not.
Sure the barriers have more damage than the fire shield thingy, but fire shield thingy boosts defense.
Its called BALANCE. Ever heard of it?
more attack and less defense = less attack but more defense
GET OVER IT.
Drakon's move was a copy/paste to begin with
wiki.spiralknights.com/Dark_Retribution
I've said it 100 times today, and I'll say 100 more times:
There is a good way to balance things and a completely terrible way to balance things: This is the later. If this were about balancing, a simple nerf in the damage would have been fine, but 000 just had to take it a step further and completely step all over 1/3 of their community in return. We were given these Battle Sprites to make combat either. So what if Drakon's barrier is a copy/paste? You still had to pay/chose to have this specific pet for this specific purpose with these specific moves.
Another point is that if the Battle Sprite's skills could have just been made into item drops like this, then what was the whole point of the Battle Sprite update? Wouldn't it have been more logical to just make the skills item drops if you were going to go ahead and do it 3 months afterwards?
So don't tell us to get over it, you should get with the program and actually try to look into what you're talking about before sticking your foot in your mouth like you just did here.
This whole update is just redundant if you ask me. A total waste of time.
So what? 1/3 of drakons moveset is nerfed. You still have 2 other moves to choose from, and artillery strikes are rare, so i don't count that as rendering an attack useless. Battle Sprites are not supposed to make you 360noscopemlgpro at the game, in my eyes, they're just there to aid less-skilled players when they are going on a boss run or something. Other than that, I think they're purely cosmetic items.
So what?
Well why don't we nerf your Battle Sprite next and see how you feel. Battle Sprites are used by all players of all skill-sets. I never said they're supposed to make like some ridiculous CoD reference, they were just implemented to improve game experience as a whole.
And you still didn't answer my question:
if the Battle Sprite's skills could have just been made into item drops like this, then what was the whole point of the Battle Sprite update? Wouldn't it have been more logical to just make the skills item drops if you were going to go ahead and do it 3 months afterwards?
Answer me that with a reasonable and coherent answer and I'll actually consider this post seerus. Until then, I just view this post and you as ignorant.
Deal with that.
First of all, I find it a bit off that they basically made a sprite's special skill into a random drop. There's no point in doing that in the first place, since it's supposed to be used by ONE sprite type. If they were going to do that, they may as well have made the seraphynx's heart attack or the maskeraith's cloak into drops.
Second of all, Nep never said anything about the artillery strike drop, so why are you even mentioning it?
The drakons barrier gives a defense buff, and lasts for much longer.
Also, might have said this before but I'll say it again:
Drakon: Easiest to use with the least reward
Seraphinx: 2nd easiest to use with the 2nd least reward
Maskeraith: hardest to use with the best rewards.
Its Drakons nature to be easy to use but with the least rewards.
Even so, but all of you that keep arguing still can't come up with a reasonable argument as to why this stupid item was created in the first place if we have Battle Sprites for this specific reason. It's still made the other 2 completely overpowered since you can stack these stupid things up and use them while using Seraphynx's shield or Maskeraith's invisibility cloak.
the barriers are so drakon users get used to using barriers and learn how to use them effectively, and so sera and mask users that like the barriers might use real money to buy the drakon pod.
If so, if they're to better promote the Drakon for more use, wouldn't that hurt the economy of the others? If OOO really is doing that, then why not do the same for the other two? Make drops of their skill for the users to practice their battle sprite usage.
.... That has got to be the dumbest and most illogical conclusion I have ever heard.
If these useless pickups were created for players to get used to using them, shouldn't it be for the Seraphynx and Maskeraith users purpose? Also, since everything can be bought with E which can be bought with cr which you can farm endlessly due to the fact that we have free elevators, why would anyone waste money on this game anymore? The only people left to spend actual money on this game are new players with a ton of cash and not a lot of sense or dedicated vets. Since most new players specifically join because this game is marketed as f2p, they aren't going to be very willing to spend money either. Vets aren't going to be spending that much either unless they see that this game is going to take because there isn't enough money coming in for this game.
God I hope this happens soon, I'd laugh maniacally when it does.
So TL;DR: Your argument is bad and you should feel bad.
This is what some not so bright, rich people think:
"Oh cool, there's a barrier, lets try it"
"Oh I liked it, and Drakon has it so..."
"Drakon is worth buying (gets parents credit card)"
Also, how do you think people get triple max UV's? A lot of them pay.
/laughs at you until in tears.
Really? That's what you think? Maybe back when the elevators still required mist, but not anymore. The Forge Prize Boxes offer UV tickets if you put in effort to hunt for crystals. Already scored 3 which all had UV tickets in them.
Edit: I've had enough laughs from this forum to last me a life-time. I'm going to bed.
Rich people don't LIKE to put too much effort and grind endlessly for a chance to get a ticket, And also for a chance to get the UV they want. So they buy E. You can farm endlessly since the elevators are free, but don't expect the farming to end in 3 minutes.
Now, I have not tested it out, but i'm pretty sure you can stack Fire shield with the barriers, and put a vortex in the middle, Making you king of the world. You HAVE proven a point, but i'm pretty sure they're going to either nerf barriers or buff drakon's fire shield.
The new barriers are simply new toys to play with and master. Vials do the same thing as any ranged weapon, and these barriers are like a swordies' vial. Heck, I see people using their vials as rarely as they use their pets, and these new useables are the same. Instead of claiming the end is neigh, humbly move on if you're upset, or try out new fighting methods.
barriers don't outclass drakon's barrier, it makes it less attactive. they are also kinda flawed cause they are supposed to be a barrier but they give no defense. they are also OP cause you can kit an enemy for 200 damage in T3 while with vials you do 15. either statuses are going to get revamped, of the barriers are going to get a nerf.
They should remove the barriers and keep the ''special'' (Artillery Strike, Ranger Signal Flare, Auto Turret Kit) ones. Those are kinda cool and different.
Personally i don't like em... more stuff that u auto pickup wich you don't need. I end up throwing alot of vials and barriers away because of the vaccuum loot system.
OOO should start making more new content as in bosses and lvl's that's what were lacking and stop with these silly overhaul's and gimmicky updates. imo.
I know that they are busy with a new boss and im looking forward to it.
Neo, the point of having battle sprites is to give us vanguards something to do, and to start a new sort of material economy.
Wait, last time I checked, Maskerwraith was nerfed about a week after the update. 2/3 BSs have been nerfed. And I think sera will be nerfed in a few weeks.
You're joking, right? The game even TELLS you it's supposed to assist you in battle. And you're STILL AVOIDING MY POINTS:
These pickups are copypastas of the skills
These pickups make Battle Sprites look useless
These pickups still make the Drakon users look like a bunch of morons for their decision
These pickups can still be stacked and do more normal damage than the Drakon's barrier when properly aligned.
But that's okay, I guess some people still want to stick up for these devs because they don't know any better. I used to be like you, but then I realized that if I've sunk money into a game, I want quality updates to go with it that are consistent with previous ones. Even if these guys are a small group of devs, that's no excuse for quality. It just means they need to take their time to actually THINK things through, but no. They just had to rush this update onto us. They had to give us these items that we didn't ask for and we didn't need. They just REALLY, REALLY HAD to ignore the wishes of paying customers and not even attempt to take a survey on whether or not we would even like the idea. If this is how a dev team treats loyal customers, fine. I'm not wasting another cent on this game.
nepe, again, calm down.
only barriers are "copypaste" of one skill, drakon's flame barrier. pets actually benefit from this, cause some skills can be used in synergy with the barriers.
drakon's firebarrier has another function, it kills enemies faster while protecting you, which is why it should be called a barrier. those orbs should be renamed imo. and we are not morons. barriers don't stack with each other, they stack with drakon's barrier only. I can kill a lumber with schorching barrier and another barrier.
and quit saying you've paid them like you've founded their whole game. they had to change the arcade to make it more interesting. how would you have? or better, do you know how much work they have done? are you really sure that pickups were so much important in the game till now unless they were pills? do you know any company that says "hew, we want to change this, do you agree?" on any change they make?
Drakon is actually the hardest Sprite to use effectively. Maskeraith requires you to use fast weapons, and other than that he's actually fairly simple. Seraphynx.. well, you only really have to aim with its first skill.
But Drakon?
His first ability is pretty much useless. Even Seraphynx's is better- and that has utility.
His second ability requires you to use gear perfect for the damage you're taking, since it multiplies your total armor value. Unless you do, you take too much damage to warrant getting hit. You also have to use weapons that don't get shut down by on-hit flinching.
His third ability might as well not exist unless you're fighting a gigantic enemy or you're using a Vortex. Even then, it doesn't deal a spectacular amount of damage.
Drakon is the weakest Sprite, even compared against the other Sprites, even though you need the most effort to use him effectively.
Maybe it's to cover Drakon's inability to inflict anything other than fire. Poison vials are like a Maskeraith's quills (though it does have longer range), so I don't see any reason to hate the new items or consider the Drakon useless.
Besides, the Drakon has added defense on its flame barrier, whereas the items don't. Not to mention that the ultimate variants of Drakon barriers allow for MSI or 73 normal (if you still have the normal harnesses) damage, six points more than the barrier items.
That means you can do shadow or elemental or normal.
Firebolt and Firestorm are like a gun and bomb, respectively. Now let those rustle your jimmies and we'll talk.
EDIT: If you have a Drakon, get a DVS. Then use Flame Barrier and go crazy. It's super effective. I die doing this with the new pickups.
1) OP I think the barrier has attack stat boosts too, which makes a better argument
2) They didn't nerf drakon as you said PETA
3) This has not somehow made all battle sprites useless as you said again PETA
4) No ones mind has been changed to think drakon users are morons. You still have 2 valid skills and it looks the toughest of all 3 sprites.
5) Drakon users can still use these items. Congratulations by proving the items are strong you proved drakon users can be even stronger using their barriers.
And MANY valid points have been made as an argument against you, but you appear to be skimming over them and taking out of context.
The pickups aren't important, and that's just what makes this even worse. They're wasting time on things we don't need and effectively ripping off Battle Sprite users in a whole.
And I do know how much work goes into a game, but what you're missing as it whooshes over your head is that these are just quick and cheap fixes, not an actual attempt to make the game better for the community as a whole.
Also, I'm not asking the devs to ask about everything (even though Warframe, ANOTHER indie game does Q&A's once a week) just that they should use a little common sense and ask about something that may extremely affect gameplay.
@PELICAN
Yeah, the same could be said to you, big beak.
It's so sad to see all you idiots stick up for your moronic devs. Guess none of you have played a decent game in who knows how long, that these guys have just brainwashed you into thinking that they're the best thing ever.
So.... So sad.... I pity you all...
pickups are important now or we wouldn't discussing about it right now. point is, they weren't. idk if they made changes to vials other than being more flashy, but pickups have now deen revamped to be at the usability level of pills.
Just because you do not know how to use a battle sprite. Does not mean that said battle sprite sucks. The Drakon's flame barrier is intended as a defense for frontline fighters, while the pickup flame barrier is an offense. Drakon's flame barrier greatly boosts your defense, allowing you to take a good chunk of you damage you otherwise would not. The new flame barrier pickups are for the spammers who never press their shield key and mash RMB. People who do not appreciate how much easier things can be for you with a good bit of defense. Battle Sprites can either be a useless hunk of polygons, or they can be your greatest ally. You just have to use them right. And with harnesses, you can do three different damage types, whereas the barrier can only do one. And you can get more than one sprite you know. Drakon can actually be the absolute best battle sprite if you USE HIM RIGHT. He is meant to help prevent all the "massive damage" that swordies take at close range, and help surpress deadly targets. Seraph is very appealing to players who don't have a few viable sets of 5 star gear yet, because of the bonus Defense and healing and whatnot. But both Drakon and Maskeraith can let you output huge damage, while avoiding some of the damage entirely. Drakon has a bloody AoE, that when coupled with a Gravitron or Electron Vortex can be absolute destruction. The Battle Sprites were made to go well with more specific loadouts. Just because your Vengeful Quills don't help your Biohazard do better does not make Maskeraith useless.
If the only thing you're doing is insulting other players over how they play their game and their own differing opinions, you might as well be another Batabii. If you don't like what the dev's dish out here, then stick to your Warframe or whatever other game might suit your fancy. OOO puts in miscellaneous updates like these all the time, and if you're not happy with it, at least be respectable to the other players while making your complaints.
Personally, I also have to agree that the update is not as game-changing as I would've liked, but it isn't hurting anything. Drakon users still have the advantage when they reach level 100 and pick their ultimate skills. Same with the other sprites.
Arkate, you're greatly overestimating how much damage a vortexed Explosive Firestorm does. It does some, but you can deal the same damage by planting two more vortexes. The only advantage to using it over another weapon (or just continually vortexing) is that it doesn't inhibit your movement.
For reference, I did some testing on T3 training bags, and against an enemy weak to your damage type, you deal about 700-800 damage in total.
Keep in mind that's a total over 5 seconds. There are other sources of AoE you can use that surpass that, and are easier to land in general.
Then look at Seraphynx; a first ability that can be used as a wall and doubles as a defense debuff, a second ability that spawns a lot of hearts and can slightly reduce the damage you take, a third ability that can bypass damage entirely for some stupidly powerful attacks. Maskeraith: a first ability that heavily reduces enemies' damage, makes them take slightly more damage, and deals a very large amount of extra damage when used in conjunction with fast weapons. A second ability that reassigns aggro and lets you move where you want, while eventually boosting your damage massively as well. A third ability that requires almost no setup and is incredibly easy to use in comparison to Drakon's.
A lot of people are really overexaggerating how useful Flame Barrier is. Yes, you take less damage, but you're still taking damage. Unless you get the highest-defense gear, it's like using a Fang of Vog except arguably less effective. Honestly, the most use I have out of Barrier is using the Backfire Barrier ultimate, which at least has some real utility..
"These pickups are copypastas of the skills"
All pickups are. Barriers = drakon barrier. Vials = Maskerwraith quills. Remedy/Health = Sera heart attack. I agree with this, but all battle sprites have unique skills to counter this.
"These pickups make Battle Sprites look useless"
No they do not. Battle Sprites skills are more versatile in some cases where you need to dish out more damage quickly. The barriers only deal normal damage and a status. Drakon can do elemental/piercing(?)/normal damage AND protect you from some attacks.
"These pickups still make the Drakon users look like a bunch of morons for their decision"
Maybe. Maybe not. I have a couple of friends who use their drakon to absolutely crush everything. If anything, the barriers actually HELP drakon users because you can stack a barrier pickup and a flame barrier to deal a good chunk of damage to enemies.
"These pickups can still be stacked and do more normal damage than the Drakon's barrier when properly aligned."
And THEN you can use the flame barrier to do even MORE damage WHILE getting a defensive buff. Flame barrier also lasts longer so you will still be protected while you are in the animation of using those barrier pickups.
Your attitude is downright ugly. Fix that first before you try to fix the game.
Now here's why the Drakon isn't ripped off:
*The barriers can be used alongside it. They don't replace the ability, they enhance it.
*The ultimate versions of the fire barrier are arguably superior.
*You can reuse it.
That said, the barrier drop rate could use a nerf.
This is tangental to the main points being discussed, but I'm wondering if anyone out there has tested the ultimate hazes vs. frenzied firestorm. I agree with Arkate that at least some of the hating, which I've heard quite often, comes from people that aren't fully utilizing what drakon is really capable of dishing out. Placing a frenzied firestorm so baddies kite into it and activate the bonuses can very quickly murder a entire room, as you have not only the immediate damage of the fire tick, but also the damage boost that can push you beyond max damage. I haven't put together any hard numbers, but I know that FFS adds around 60 dmg on the first swing of my acheron past the normal max on t3 jellies. Coupled with, say, a brandish charge, DR or DVS, it cranks out enormous amounts of damage, and like the ultimate hazes, the dmg and asi bonuses can persist as long as new baddies continue kiting into the FFS's AoE. Anyway, as I don't have a masker I would be interested in anyone's input as to some actual dmg numbers on the ultimate hazes for comparison.
narfle, you are getting me in the ankward position of not knowing which ultimate firestorm choose in 5 levels.
We just all have to agree on one thing.......
...Drakon's barriers look more boss.
Haha, sorry, Thunder ^^ In all seriousness, though, I am a very satisfied drakon user, and a lot of that has to do with choosing FFS. As long as you don't mind your sprite having the big, meaty arms, I would strongly recommend it.
The bonus of frenzied is 10%, right between a medium and a high damage bonus.
You sure? Looks like 15% to me. d24, solo, t3 regular jelly, max dmg, acheron first swing = 390dmg. Same setup with FFS, first swing = 449 dmg. Maybe I'm mathing it wrong. At any rate, I'm sure you have your hands on a lot more data than I do.
Acheron raw damage at D24: 473
put this up to max damage: 473 x 124% = 586
deduct slime shadow defence and normal defence: 586 - 65.5 - 131 = 390
Now add the 10% damage bonus: 473 x 124% x 110% = 645
deduct slime shadow defence and normal defence: 645 - 65.5 - 131 = 449
10% bonus.
haha,zeddy always when you come to the forums,numbers and defences and other mathematical things come ^^
not saying it is bad,but funny
topic: drakon's barriers can be easiely reused,and barriers have to be found,but the COULD nerf the drop rate of them, like only putting them in boxes
@Nep
Then don't use the new barriers. If you pick them up, then shut up and use 'em.
INB4 "Well I'm a derphead in a party in the average clockworks level on normal difficulty in T1 depth 1 and I am losing a ton of SoLs against a single Gremlin Lighter and I am wearing full Vog Level 10 Normal MAX Fire MAX Elemental MAX and a GOS Normal MAX Fire MAX Elemental MAX and two True Love Lockets and a Sword Damage Med on my Drakon with an ASI med Gremlin VH DVS and I haven't even bothered using my maxed out Drakon in an Elite Shadow Harness and there are tons of pills and I haven't touched my Drakon so I will blame a nerf that never happened to Drakons on the new barriers, which I should be using and thanking OOO for but why bother since I can bash someone's thread about it and force myself and other completely random strangers to make giant walls of text and starting internet fights because of something that the developers did so because the developers did it then it is the developers' fault so OOO is full of Shivermist Busters and the developers need to stop developing like terrible developers who cares that they are a small team with a budget I hate them even though I spend my $100 limit on them every month and I know I will get over this in a few minutes but I should still keep the forum moderators up to check on posts in case of swear words and links with viruses that I secretly put up with my posts that require advanced computers to open up those links with viruses that that computer protects against and everyone who replies will be bashed at no matter how valid their argument is because I am right the rest of you AT noobs can die in a hole
because I am just SOOOOOOO awesome so I will ignore all of you and reply TL;DR to everything."
Guess what? You have only one supporter who can't bother to take one minute of his life to get a profile pic. Therefore OOO will not consider unnerfing the Drakons, while the Drakons really never had a nerf. Stop acting like you have the advantage. Nobody cares about your rants. Nobody! Comparing the barriers to Drakons' barrier is just as equal as comparing Fire Vials to Firebolt. By that logic, Drakon is a copy-paste because even Firestorm is basically an AoA. If you are going to complain how underpowered Drakons are, then buy a Seraphinx or Maskeraith pod from the Supply Depot. Also, if you plan to act all "well you don't know what it is like to habe a Drakon and feel left out" then let me tell you that I have a Drakon too. Level 72 right now. Advanced Crystal Harness. All that. So stop your pointless rants and just admit defeat already. You lost already. So get out.
Also INB4 this from the INB4 above: http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_uri=%2F#/watch?v=oWOgUOjxGgU
U77654, switching away from Drakon does not stop Drakon from being underpowered.
Also, here's a fixed link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWOgUOjxGgU
_______________
...Like I said before. Maybe, just maybe, this means that Dray's gonna get a rework.
iwouldlovethatsomuch
"while the Drakons really never had a nerf"
From the test server changelog:
- Changed: The drakon's flame barrier attack power has been reduced.
- Changed: Reduced the defense buff for Frenzied Firestorm
- Changed: Reduced the damage and fire chance of the Flame Barrier
I'm assuming they meant "offence buff" by "defence buff". Maybe Frenzied just had a defence and buff and no longer does so. Either way, a nerf.
On the test server, and on the icon for scorching barrier, it had 4 orbs. This is now 3. That's a nerf as well.
Also note how flame barrier got its power reduced twice.
"Comparing the barriers to Drakons' barrier is just as equal as comparing Fire Vials to Firebolt. "
Yes, let's do that!
Ultra Fire Vial.
Damage: 50-ish vs zombies
Fire strength: +6
Fire chance: 100%
Fire damage: 4x65 (gremlins) - 5x105 (lumbers and anything with less fire resistance)
Total damage: 310-575
Range: Very, very long
Firebolt:
Damage: 240-ish vs zombies
Fire strength: +3
Fire chance: 50%
Fire damage: 3x59 (gremlins) - 5x105 (ice cubes)
Total damage: 240, or 417-765 if fire inflicts. Average of 328-502
Range: Okay I guess
Keep in mind that upper part applies for much more enemies with fire vial than it does for firebolt.
OMG THREE REENGS Y U PUT VAILS IN GAEM U MAEKING DAKRON OBSILEET
> more attack and less defense = less attack but more defense
Not when I can pop freeze barrier and kill (D19 elite solo) Wolver with full HP with it. Not sure from where ping are coming from, from enemy or from barrier, but if from enemy - you can freeze him in place and just stand there
Am I the only Drakon user who likes the Barrier Items?
It means I can use a Barrier of a Different element, and use my Drakon Barrier.
Dual Status affliction is such an awesome thing you know.
First of all, I'm not supporting Nep, I'm merely adding to the argument. I'm perfectly fine with the barriers, I just find it off how they only made drops of the Drakon's barrier skill. And I'm talking about after the sprite update, you can go ahead and say vials are like the maskeraith's skills or something like that, but they were before the battle sprite update.
Second of all, I don't want a profile pic, I prefer to distunguish myself from the other forumers in that I'm not a usual forumer, in case you haven't noticed already.
Okay I guess I prejudged you. Not the feline, I mean Sonosuke. So now that Nepeta has 0 supporters (and might have left), let me end the rage with this: If all the autoguns were not introduced until the Guntastrophe, then when the Guntastrophe comes out, would the Auotguns make Quills nerfed? If Fire Vials were introduced after Pets, would Fire Vials replace Firebolt? Did Flame Barrier and the new barrier items make DR nerfed (not including the damage nerf a long time ago)? And did Spitfires make Zappers and Frost Guns and Super Stun Guns useless? Just because something was added after something else, that doesn't mean the older item is AUTOMATICLY making the older items nerfed. Zeddy made a thread about using Sprite skills with other things, and that is quite a big thing to notice. Dreathuxy, do you mind graveyarding this thread? The fight has ended. Finish it for us.
You can use the new pickups in addition to Drakon's flame barrier.
They are active at the same time and basically melt everything you stand next to.
I like it.
Our concern is not with the POWER of the new pickups, it is with the fact that they have made the Drakon's moves less unique.