Why: We now can basicly hit you with a damage of a gran faust in the time span of a second.
How: A: Repel the Acheron buff.
B: Stop being lazy like me, and do your best in lockdown.
C: If you have an acheron, do us all q favor and dont use it for pvp.
This is a serious thread about keeping lockdown fun, i will allow jokes, but do try to be as serious as possible
Silliest petition ever.
Btw, you could do a GF combo within a second too.
I agree with blueflood LOCKSDOWN without AT and Spark of life Revive will be more fun for everyone. Also an new leaderankboard as win/loss ratio + PRIZE for top10 ( or IDK of top?) to make this minigame more active ( well do pvp for an reason )
lockdown will indeed become more fun without AT and and energy rev ( 25 energy)
As for the prizes for top 10 on leaderboards it will definitely make more people play lockdown
it will also make lockdown more active , as people more people will play lockdown for the prizes
im tying acheron to that, the brandish itself wont give anyone problems, its the revs and AT thats going to make it annoying, look at this scenario. You kill someone right outside their base, they rev, come back kill you
In PvP, unfairness only exists when some people get access to things that other people don't. If everyone has access to the same equipment and everyone is fighting under the same mechanics, it would be fair. Gear and connection is usually the cause of unfairness since access to gear is limited by money and access to good connection is inherently different among players.
Can everyone revive with energy? If so, then access to revives is only limited by one's ability to gain sparks of life. Can everyone turn on their AT? If so, then people who complain about it being OP should just turn on theirs. A common excuse for not turning on AT is that it makes the game too easy. Well it wouldn't it be just as easy if your opponent turned theirs off? If everyone gets an accuracy boost, nobody gets a special advantage.
Well then that's a connection problem isn't it? But connection is much harder to whine about than AT.
And I gotta say... is damn easy.. super-fun.. and I feel super noob..
But a happy noob..
#Almighty Rider#
i said i left it off, i figured youd all make the connection, i was wrong
A: OOO needs proof that it makes everything else unplayable and unfair. Acheron is ridiculous but it isn't exactly game breaking
B: Have Fun and be useful, all that matters
C: No one is going to listen to you sadly, if they want to use it then trust that they will.
this guy in proto whod never played lockdown before, came in with an acheron and got 20k
Put him up against Ezho. And face it, PvP will NEVER BE BALANCED THE WAY YOU WANT IT TO! Or at least it shouldn't; Spiral Knights is FIRST AND FOREMOST A DUNGEON CRAWLER PvE GAME!!! Any new weapons that are added will initially be intended FOR PvE!
@Cradarc #7:
Your argument is based around the fact that fundamentally, everyone has access to the same "OP" gear and mehanics(AT) so everything is fair. Ok, fair is good. You know what game's really fair? Like, 100% fair? War. Everyone has exactly the same chance to win as the next guy. Does that, in itself, make it fun? Not in my book. Fairness is not the only factor here.
If you can substitute any and everyone in a game for a computer, as you can in War, and get the same result as you can with people, there's no point in playing. Things like AT and this Acheron buff raise the skill floor so that almost anyone can come into LD and have a good chance of beating any seasoned veteran by taking out their shiny new two-hit-kill Acheron, turning on AT, and mashing the cursor in the general direction of their opponent. Why do you think competitive counter-strike is played only on PC, and not console? Because the console version has aim assist, and that community agrees that a game with aim assist cannot be truly competitive. The ultimate goal of competion in any form is a test of skill, and AT lowers the skill factor.
All the while the skill ceiling remains at the same "height" with no way to evolve new playstyles or strategies. That means if the theoretically the two best players in the game (whoever they may be) played each other today, the matchup would be significantly less dependent on their skill and more on luck than it would have been two weeks ago. That's the reason I don't like T3 LD as much as T2 to begin with and prefer LoL or SCII or even Halo over CoD. The TTK (time to kill) is so low, one tiny misstep can cost you everything. With as little strategy as LD already has, making it even less about tactics and more about getting the first hit off and hitstunning your way to victory is the last thing this gamemode needs.
And not to mention, no one even brought up fairness before you.
@Doity:
-Acheron may not be entirely gamebreaking, but it does render GF 80% obsolete and a buch of people scrambling for new gear. Making a weapon obsolete isn't just changing the metagame, it's making the game worse.
-can you have fun when you know your opponents probably wouldn't have beaten you if the computer hadn't been helping them? I find it hard.
-this thread does say "how to help me stop it". Not "stop it! Stop it NAO!" No one's forcing anyone to do anything here, it's just how the OP thinks he can help make LD more enjoyable for everyone.
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@Arkate: PvP skill-compensated balance and PvE balance are not mutually exclusive. And is Acheron balanced in PvE now anyway? No, not really.
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@Pamyla: you are part of the problem.
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@Illusion #2: Anything you can do with an ASI VH GF, you can do faster and safer with an ASI VH Acheron. Exact time is irrelevant.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@Terrty #13: you could do that with GF, too. Or a toothpick, or Voltedge charge spam. Acheron just adds to (and currently sits atop of) the ever-growing pile of weapons that turn T3 LD from a skill-and-tactics-based mode into a jumbled mess of damage indicators and rage messages. Another reason for me to stay in T2.
I was not aware that people complain about things that that they think are fair.
1) My comment about AT was addressed to those who complain about people who use it. I assumed that the typical person only complains when they believe they have been killed in an unfair manner. How often do you ever hear someone complain about AT to a person they defeated? It's clearly not about making the game fun and challenging.
Notice that whenever someone brings up AT as OP on the forums, they claim it automatically helps people get more damage. They basically focus on the particular group that is skilled but use AT, and completely neglects those who fail to succeed even while using AT. I just find that silly.
2) Replacing everyone with a computer is called PvE. So you're claiming everyone who doesn't play PvP is not having fun in this game?
3) Please don't tell me you're one of those people who thinks AT completely removes necessity for skill. Giving everyone access to AT is just as restrictive to the "skill ceiling" as giving everyone access to trinkets or damage bonuses.
I'm willing to bet the two "best" players in LD miss more swings than they land. What decides when one guy will miss and when the other guy will hit? Oh yeah, luck. AT doesn't change that. All it does is equally raise both person's accuracy. Now both their hit rates will increase by the same percentage. When they spar, the significance of skill is not diminished.
If you want more strategy, go play chess. If you want more hand-eye coordination/reaction time, go juggle flaming torches. There will always be a skill cap and luck factor to real time combat.
4) If anything, I think having AT permanently enabled will challenge players to pursue higher levels of perfection. A persistent luck factor means you will never peak and every game requires high concentration and adaptability. It's much harder for a skilled person to dominate the match when his performance is more dependent on luck. This is a good thing because now he will have to work harder to reach the level of domination he desires.
You must keep in mind there's two sides to AT. It makes you land hits easier but it also makes it harder for you to dodge hits. Most "pros" are better at dodging hits than they are at landing them, which is why the striker class is popular. The pro and cons ultimately balances out. A person's inherent skill is unaffected.
They only people who could possibly be whining are those who somehow have a really high hit-miss ratio (without AT) but horrible dodging skills. In the current state of LD, I don't think such people exist.
Lockdown isn't going in the toilet because it started in the toilet and has steadily progressed downstream into the sewer ever since.
I've been part of the "no - AT" side from the beginning, pointing out all the people who abuse of the LAME feature. (Exile, Chris, Ruby, Bacon, Dredio and a HUGE etc)
Even when Deoghee start to use Brandish line with AT spam, I was the first who complain, because is DAMN EASY to play with AT.
To increase the NO-AT population, me and my friends create a bunch of tournaments (Spanish inquisition anyone?), challenges with HUGE prizes.. and I am part of the problem???...
Now you all complain about Acheron + AT.. but when my good old friend RockaFeller told to everyone that AT is CHEAP, you all choose to keep using it instead of joining the Thrillaus suggestion thread.
Why I love all this unbalance?
Because I realize that there's no best way to make AT spammers rage, than AT itself.
I got a Brandish ASI VH, and I'm making an Acheron, and be damn sure I'll spam like you all do.
I simply got bored of being the ONLY ONE who play without aim-assist, now I'll be the best spammer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
#####LONG LIVE AT AND MY ALMIGHTY ACHERON##### !!!!!
Dear ponyrider,
I like your forum posts. Always did.
But this one..
There isn't a single player who is serious about LD that doesn't support the Thrillhaus lobbies suggestion.
We all want it.
@Klipik-Forum
I know, it's just funny when he writes 1 second. It's nowhere near a short time when it comes to doing a GF combo. (Which I assume he meant to write.)
More importantly, Acheron is only safer i you can aim or have the computer play the game for you.
@"Pamyla"<-Really huge quotation marks.
"I simply got bored of being the ONLY ONE who play without aim-assist, now I'll be the best spammer."
bs, you are NOt the only one At all. yoU can'T be seriOus abouT thAt. if you aRe, Go rE-Think PLEASE.
PS. That tournament is going really slow :)
Maybe I didn't say it right.
I'll edit a few parts.
"I simply got bored of being the ONLY ONE who play without aim-assist that can really make a difference and keep going no matter the changes as a TRUE Lockdown Legend, now I'll do my best to become a AT Spammer Legend."
Much better.
Cradarc>If anything, I think having AT permanently enabled will challenge players to pursue higher levels of perfection. A persistent luck factor means you will never peak and every game requires high concentration and adaptability. It's much harder for a skilled person to dominate the match when his performance is more dependent on luck. This is a good thing because now he will have to work harder to reach the level of domination he desires.
While I get your meaning, this assumes that everyone uses swords and only swords. Gunners can't benefit from that unless they stop on each shot(which negates half the purpose of guns[friggin callahan]) and bombers can't benefit at all. As the metagame currently stands, swords will always be highly luck-dependent because it's split-second, random "prediction" and twitch reaction combined with notable latency issues - all of which lasts a mere 5 seconds on average in t3, so there's not really a whole lot of "skill" involved, unless you define "skill" as "reaction time, and nothing else."
Although bombers would also be unaffected(while everything else is... made "harder") if AT were removed, it would at least restore some semblance of balance between different weapon types(yea, I know that no one cares about anything other than GF v Acheron right now, but there are other weapons in the game).
In the end, making AT permanent might balance what little is left of the minigame, but it certainly wouldn't stop it from going down the toilet.
Everything-Is-Blue>As for the prizes for top 10 on leaderboards it will definitely make more people play lockdown
it will also make lockdown more active , as people more people will play lockdown for the prizes
It will also make it so no one cares about anything other than winning, and they will use every means(ASI Polaris, Hammer and Acheron) to achieve that end.
lolwat
There's no RNG involved in AT. It's more predictable than a Recon in a freeze stage.
Krakob>There's no RNG involved in AT. It's more predictable than a Recon in a freeze stage.
"Luck" read "effectiveness adjusted for reaction time, latency and connection stability."
Reaction time is skill.
Latency is geographical location and having a good ISP.
Connection stability is using an Ethernet cable and not WiFi.
"effectiveness adjusted for reaction time, geographical location, having a good ISP be available to you, having a good ISP, and using an Ethernet cable"
Doesn't sound any less like luck to me.
"Honestly the weapons don't matter so much compared to the mechanics of the game. AT and instant revving which reduces any penalty for dieing are the two biggest issues. The damage buff for any brandish doesn't mean crap since the damage payout would be legit if people were actually required to hit the person. As it is now, just swing anywhere with a brandish to get 20k or so."
Weapons dont matter ? Yes they do, they matter just as much as armor. I dont have any issue with Gran Faust players, soo much as players who run around spamming pulsar. Gran Faust requires some degree of sword skill to use, just like any heavy sword, soo if i die from it, it most likely means i was outplayed or juked into a swing.
Ive been away from this game for a while, but it doesnt seem like any damage based armors have been nerfed in the slightest, nor have they done anything about pulsar spam which is pretty much unavoidable in most circumstances because the projectiles are soo large. I also heard they buffed gunners soo that contributes to the issue even further.
I played lockdown for the first time in about 4-5 months and its pretty much still the same. Bad players using pulsar as a crutch, everyone being striker in damaged based armor to near instantly kill you with any combo, regardless of defensive based gear, because defensive based gear is terrible for lockdown.
Pretty sure at this point OOO doesnt care about PvP, which is sad because this game COULD have a very competitive PvP Arena. I could easily see this game as something that would be streamed or played competitively if they balanced out gear, sadly, i dont recommend this game to any of my friends, and im sure its the same way for many others. The gap in how unbalanced the classes and gear are, are simply too large. Simply by fixing PvP and gear alone, they could probably increase their daily player based by atleast 100k.
Anyways, root cause of this isnt Gran Faust, its damage based armor such as Chaos, Wolver thatre the issue, thats the only reason you can take such a big hit in the first place.
I was going off of the title of this thread.. putting my two cents in as to what really brings the game "down the toilet". And if you haven't experienced the onslaught of AT brandish, then you're out of touch with the current metagame. Right now it's pretty much the most imbalanced weapon.. and only because of AT. And the OP was talking about Acheron, not GF...
Out of everything I said you just focused on the first line.
Or maybe you're too pro for me and see things how they really are, that's cool too.
Look, AT was already a problem, but thats not what this thread is for, it was about the achy buff, while achy always did more damage than gf, now it does too much more damage, to the point where me, god-form, and some other guy got murdered by ttyook, because he could kill us in 1 hit, with an achy
@Alpyhappy
Having a good ISP available just means you need to live in a city. If you don't, you can't seriously be whining about your internet connection on these forums. Choosing a good ISP is a decision you make as a consumer and it shouldn't be too friggin' hard. Not sure how using an Ethernet cable sounds like luck to you. Sounds more like using a cheaper alternative to WiFi.
@Terrty
That's bullfeces. Acheron used to do less damage than GF and now it does exactly as much.
Acheron used to do more damage than gf"
What on earth are you on? May I recommend going to a doctor....brain surgeon preferrably.
and it does now, i remember, first hit of achy was more than gf
but achy wasnt annoying, because no one really had it, so no one noticed
also im confused, why are you usin OP as my name, i dont really care, im just wondering
@krakob ITS ON
@ kiplic #17 look, you should be happy i even care about making lockdown more enjoyable, most people who can do what i can dont even care.
@illusion #3
this isnt a petetion,
OP stands for original poster. It's just a quick way to refer to you
No, the first hit of Acheron did not do more than Gran Faust. If you have any proof of this, please present it to us.
"old photo"
patch has been live for what, maybe a little over a week
how old can it possibly be
The forerunner to the photographic camera was the camera obscura.[2] In the fifth century B.C., the Chinese philosopher Mo Ti noted that a pinhole can form an inverted and focused image, when light passes through the hole and into a dark area.[3] Mo Ti is the first recorded person to have exploited this phenomenon to trace the inverted image to create a picture of the damage of an Acheron before the update that buffed it to damage levels of the Gran Faust.[4]
-Wikipedia
^LOL
And good luck to Terrty. I will be quite impressed if he finds a photo.
Honestly the weapons don't matter so much compared to the mechanics of the game. AT and instant revving which reduces any penalty for dieing are the two biggest issues. The damage buff for any brandish doesn't mean crap since the damage payout would be legit if people were actually required to hit the person. As it is now, just swing anywhere with a brandish to get 20k or so.