Spiral Knights - Half-Hearted Suggestion: Remaking the Cautery Sword into a line of semi-healing weapons

Half-Hearted Suggestion: Remaking the Cautery Sword into a line of semi-healing weapons

32 replies [Last post]

Fri, 10/25/2013 - 13:56

Raisinfist

Not much to say here- the Cautery sword as-is is a joke. Nightblade extends to 5* and does better damage against Slimes than the Cautery Sword when both are 3*. Also, Cautery Sword deals Normal - Nightblade is better than it against Gremlins.
So, let's change it.

Proposal: The Cautery Sword line extends to 5* and is changed to a low-damage healing weapon.
The 3* Cautery Sword should do equal damage to a typical 2* Normal-damage weapon, ie. Calibur. It has a usual attack pattern - three swings, normal speed. Each star-level upwards will do less damage than the equivalent Calibur-line sword.
The charge attack is limited-use: you can only use the charge when you have done enough damage to enemies. The amount of damage you have done is shown as a line on the charge meter. When the line reaches the maximum, you may use the charge. (Since it is limited like this, you can cancel a charge if it's ready by pressing 'Shield'.)

The charge will do different things for each weapon:
3* Cautery Sword: The charge will produce a small area in front of the user which lasts for one second, in the shape of a green heart (with the point back towards the user). The user is not in the heart and will be immobile from the charge long enough that they cannot move into the heart. Any Knights inside the area will immediately be cured of all Status Effects.

4* ['Revitalizer' - I need a better name for this]: The charge produces a slightly larger area in front of the user which lasts for one second, in the shape of a white heart. Charge mechanics as before. Any Knights inside the heart will instantly be healed.
Following Autofire's helpful post, this will now have different healing levels in different tiers:
-In Tier 1, it will instantly heal 1 pip of health.
-In Tier 2, it will instantly heal 2 pips of health.
-In Tier 3, since the damage of monsters is considerably higher, it will instantly heal 5 pips of health.

5* Scalpelissimus: The charge produces a large area in front of the user which lasts for several seconds, in the shape of a red heart. The user starts inside the heart, but is immobile for the same length of time. Since this is the 5*, there are special benefits: the large heart will heal all Knights inside at the same rate as a T1 healing pad while they are in it and will grant a temporary damage reduction while they are in the heart.
Again, after Autofire's post, I tweaked it to have different healing levels in different tiers:
-In Tier 1, the heart will last for 4 seconds and will heal a maximum of 2 pips of health.
-In Tier 2, the heart will last for 6 seconds and will heal a maximum of 3 pips of health.
-In Tier 3, the heart will last for 12 seconds and will heal a maximum of 6 pips of health.

Post feedback below, please!
-Raisin

Edits:
26/10/13: Scaled the healing levels of each weapon to the tier which they are in (tyvm, Autofire).

Fri, 10/25/2013 - 14:08

Autofire

You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

Hmm...

How does it scale is lower tiers? The 4* one would be broken in T1. (Okay, who cares about that? xD)

Otherwise, it doesn't sound too bad.

Fri, 10/25/2013 - 15:09

Arkate

NOPE!

Obsidian Edge.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 07:52

Raisinfist

Arkate, how does that comment help at all? /sigh...

@Autofire
I haven't thought about that yet - I guess perhaps, then, it should be scaled as such:

3*: Cures all status effects.

4*:
-T1: Heals 1 pip/bar of health.
-T2: Heals 2 pips/bars of health.
-T3: Heals (5?) pips/bars of health - in T3, after all, you can die in 3 hits if you have no relevant defence (see: Kats and Bomber armour.), so a significantly larger boost is needed.

5*: (Note: The user starts inside the heart)
-T1: Heart lasts for 4 seconds (ie. 2 bars' worth of health)
-T2: Heart lasts for 6 seconds (ie. 3 bars' worth of health)
-T3: Heart lasts for 12 seconds (ie. 6 bars' worth of health) - see above.

I'd have to hope that'd work better. Thanks for pointing it out - I'll edit the OP now.
-Raisin

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 07:57

Thunder-The-Bright

gods ain't gonna help you, son.

nick said there will be no other ways of healing besides the one we have. in short, no player controlled healing.
want to know why? I can heal before any battle, and so I crush the difficulty of the level.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 08:04

Raisinfist

Thunder, did you read about the whole 'you have to do x damage to enemies before you can use the charge' thing? It's a way to stop spam of it - the healing levels are low, the damage of the weapon itself is subpar, and you can't 'stack' charges. The only way this could be abused would be to get a Gremlin Mender with a non-difficult enemy, eg a Gremlin Knocker, and even then the healing would be slow enough to be tedious.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 08:08

Thunder-The-Bright

gods ain't gonna help you, son.

oh, I kind of jumped that part for random reasons it seems.
ok then.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 18:39

Qwote

I'd like to see a gimmick like this in the game

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 12:20

Raisinfist

Anyone else have an opinion? If this goes well, I might actually start thinking.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 21:01

Hexzyle

When you're this swag this world just bows at your knees

Looks good. Why not just have the Cautery Sword start on its own line though, since its charge is different to the Brandish?

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 07:10

#10

Senka-Sae

Welp.

Reminds me of the SS charge attack + effect. I like it. Alot.

+1.

So, supposing the 3* works as a sword-like remedy capsule, I see no mention of the ability at 4* and 5*. Does it carry this ability naturally, or will it just lose it for the healing ability? And if not, technically we could have the 3* and 5* separately, both healing /and/ curing status ailments. I do particularly enjoy the buff-mechanic for the charge; but how much are we talking about here? Two monsters? Three? Five? Vanaduke-size cupcakes?

As well, I can assume the mechanic will use the damage system; that's ingenious, but wouldn't it feel slugging to charge if we have a 4-man party consisting of 3 other brandish users wiping out every viable thing the support class could defeat to recharge the weapon (then again, I guess that's the parties fault; but it's a fairly common scene, so why not mention it)?

Yet, once more, +1.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 12:46

#11

Raisinfist

@Hexzyle
I only picked the Cautery Sword because it's useless ATM - any takers for the WHB, anyone? - and, eh, I guess it'd be better to make an entire new line for it and make new names for them all, and it'd reduce the scary amount of Brandish crafting in the world, but I just haven't been bothered. I don't think I'll change that right now - people might be fooled into buying one of them still, and also I'm tired.

@Senka-Sae
No, it wouldn't carry the ability past 3* - it'll be replaced by the healing. I think the idea I had was to have each star level different, for use in different situations - you could indeed use two weapons in the line for different purposes, but you essentially sacrifice a slot for an otherwise more viable weapon. It's only any good for soloing at 5*.
It's sad to say this, but if your entire party isn't going to give you opportunities to get healed, you can't heal them. If they still carry on after you've explained it to them, then leave the party and find some different people who'll actually let the weapon be used to their benefit.
I take it your unusual comment about 'vanaduke-sized cupcakes' is to do with the damage reduction effect for the 5*. Truth is, I haven't worked that out yet - perhaps it should provide the same buff as the 'Defence Up' orbs which one of Seraphynx's ultimate skills drop, but for 1 second at a time (like LD's guardian shield - the effect only works when you're in the area of effect).

I still need a name for the 4* weapon. Any suggestions?

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 14:33

#12

Fehzor

I liked my two suggestions for the sword better:

0. Enemies killed by the sword will drop extra hearts sometimes (like... heart attack... but I suggested that before heart attack... o_O). No upgrade to 4/5*.

1. Cautery sword to work like Fang of Vog on the charge attack, but 3*. This would make it awesome for slimes.

4/5* healing weapons seem a bit much tbh.

Sat, 11/09/2013 - 10:07

#13

Raisinfist

@Fehzor

The only problem I have with that is that it now just becomes a spammable weapon - massive DPS on the charge (albeit with a risk of self-immolation) against everything, drops hearts to heal which may or may not effectively negate the self-immolation - as well as making the original Fang of Vog obsolete. If you have to give up the opportunity for 30k CR and then some for an obsolete sword, you may as well just remove the sword from the game and give everyone 3-UV tickets. The only reason people use the Fang is for the RJP - now this weapon, thanks to the damage cap in lower tiers, will replace it entirely.

The swords don't provide that much of a boost, so they stop being a 'healing weapon' in that they don't provide sustainable health buffs. It's more like a 'stop-this-party-member-from-dying-in-1-hit weapon'. Or just stop them from burning to death.

Sat, 11/09/2013 - 10:25

#14

Dekuinanutshell

This is my original comment.

The healing just seems a bit too OP for 6 pips in tier 3 thats just asking for no healing at all, the only counter to this would have to be that the charge is very long to do, and its incapitation abilities are hard to counter midbattle OR the above, with an extended CTI and you cant get hearts.

Sat, 11/09/2013 - 10:53

#15

Senka-Sae

Charge is based on how many damage points the sword can dish out, so it's pretty limited in that sense. 6 pips in T3 is okay-ish, the sword would work like a portable damage-based Tier 1 Heal pad.

Also take note that each sword has a different mechanic, so in order to heal effectively you'd need to both switch, power up, and have the room and time to be able to use them before being mauled to death by the next Thwacker. Two single-person items and one AoE item; it doesn't seem particularly too OP since you need to charge for each and every one of them.

Sat, 11/09/2013 - 11:42

#16

Raisinfist

I should note that one person equipping two or three of these weapons would have a separate damage/charge bar for each one, and that the amount of damage 'surplus' is reset each floor upon going down the elevator.

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 05:16

#17

Red-Right-Hand

Hmmm....insted of healing,

Hmmm....insted of healing, why not just increased heart drop? Nobody wants to wait for healing....

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 09:09

#18

Raisinfist

Hearts despawn. This is more convenient - you can wait until everyone needs the health, and then use it.

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 12:11

#19

Navarchus

This is convenient and I really like it.
G'job, man.

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 21:30

#20

Masterreeve

idk, i never did like the

idk, i never did like the idea of a weapon that could heal. Granted, with the system that you're talking about it seems hard to spam it, but i always thought of weapons as something used to kill things, not to heal. Best to leave status and condition altering moves to the sprites. Also, like many other weapons in the game, i don't think the cautery sword was ever really meant to be used long term. It was just something OOO put in to increase the variety of weapons without having to be locked down with the idea that every weapon needs to be end game material. It's fine to give the sword a rework, but I'd say leave it at 3* with just the status recovery and focus on improving other gear that have end game implications like Winmillion or Deluxe Vitasuit.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 11:06

#21

Raisinfist

@Masterreeve:
Some things I object to a little:

i always thought of weapons as something used to kill things, not to heal.
As it is, SK doesn't have 'classes' as such, and it should stay that way, because it's far better that way. Even so, if it did, it doesn't have a 'support' class - there are plenty of offensive sets, but there isn't any way any more to help your teammates AT ALL except by grabbing aggro. So what if it's called a weapon? Some people would consider journalists weapons, and they don't tend to fire small pieces of metal at very high speeds. It doesn't need to be offensive.

Best to leave status and condition altering moves to the sprites.
Why? Is there a reason why Sprites have to do ALL the support work?
So suppose somebody just starting the game picked, let's say, Drakon for its ease of use and direct damage abilities. All this while they've probably been soloing - T1 is hardly difficult. Later in the game, they start wishing they could help out their party members even if only so that they'll be invited back, and then they're stuck. This is one reason why I think there should be some kind of support weapon.

i don't think the cautery sword was ever really meant to be used long term.
Does it really matter that it's the Cautery Sword which I'm modifying? In one of the earlier posts, I said that I could have made a whole new weapon line, but I'm starting to think that it'd be a waste to leave such useless niche weapons lying around to trick newbies into wasting CR.

focus on improving other gear
This isn't so much improving as replacing. The Cautery Sword as-is is counterproductive - it really needs to go.

< /trm>

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 17:42

#22

Il-Mono-Il

Arkate has the point

Make the cautery sword upgrade to obsidian edge, instead nightblade.

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 06:54

#23

Misty-Wellington

If Cautery Sword can heal like this, make Wrench Wand the noob equivalent. (I've noticed most of the weapons in the game have their 0-1* versions)

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 12:44

#24

Raisinfist

@Monocelha
Erm, why? This'd miss out the 4* sword entirely, discontinue the Slime damage bonus, and add a whole stack of Shadow damage, never mind slapping on some Poison as well for good measure. Really, that'd be pointless.

@Misty-Wellington
Wrench Wand is 2* - awesome idea, given the model - so perhaps a reskin and a slight size decrease to make it 1* would make it fit in pretty well. It can't do any harm, right?
Let's put the effect for this one as a temporary defence buff, like for instance 15 seconds, rather than a status heal or health healing, so that people will still buy the 3* and further versions.

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 11:03

#25

Raisinfist

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 23:02

#26

Fehzor

No.

0. FoV is a trophy weapon = why we want it. Because 2/3* knights get FoV to fight the Jelly King.

1. It was intended as an either or thing. Not FoV+heart drops.

2. Actually, both would probably work. Would you spam fov's charge w/ less damage for 2 hearts per enemy mid T3?

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 00:56

#27

Masterreeve

I make you black, bluue and red all over

@Fehzor
uhm... did i miss something, or did we miraculously switch from Cautery sword to FoV in this discussion?

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 01:54

#28

Jenovasforumchar

nice suggestion

I really like your suggestion about making that cautery sword beeing able to heal or support in any way. Add a something like a Vitahelm and you get a full healer-like appearence.

Back to topic: Your idea is a good choice to help other people while not beeing able to abuse it that easily.

@Misty-Wellington and Raisinfist
Do NOT touch my Wrench Wand: This sword stands out alone each other sword by having a unique charge attack that no other sword possesses.

A Wrench Wand charge is actually the only Sword that can release a bullet that shoots further than most of the guns, maybe even all guns (by saying this I can't include Winmilion since I don't have this one yet).

If you change the Wrench Wand, you destroy a piece of SK.

(Sidenote: I heated up a Wrench Wand to 10 and never regret it since this weapon is only epic)

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 10:05

#29

Raisinfist

@Jenvos
It does shoot further than a Winmillion - Zeddy did a whole bunch of tests.

Well, you may as well leave the 2* Wand as it is, and make a smaller version with a T1 skin and a different charge for the 'newbie version'.

@Fehzor
... Still off-topic. I'd like to ask what you think of this suggestion, rather than what you think should be done with the Cautery Sword. This is a discussion about a healing weapon. Not so much about the Cautery Sword.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 15:18

#30

Raisinfist

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 17:10

#31

Dibsville

+infinity

This would be a beautiful addition.
Not much to explain.
/clap

EDIT: Didn't check the date.
Still +1 anyway because why not.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 17:08

#32

Masterreeve

I make you black, bluue and red all over

Don't bump your thread after a month of inactivity, it was inactive because all that could be said on the topic has been said.

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Half-Hearted Suggestion: Remaking the Cautery Sword into a line of semi-healing weapons