Spiral Knights - Brandishes: What's a reliable line to pursue?

Brandishes: What's a reliable line to pursue?

26 replies [Last post]

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 12:26

Modicu

I've recently started getting into the Brandishes, as I've started to like their charge attacks, especially because of their capabilities and raw power. However, I was wondering if there was a particular one that can maximize the output of the weapon. I have a Combuster that I just recently made, and a Blizzbrand lying around in my inventory, and when I can, I'm going to forge it up to level 10 and upgrade it to a Glacius. I would try going for the Voltedge, but PVP isn't a thing I'm fond of. (I only have 60~ Krogmo Coins, anyway, not like I can really do much with those.)

Currently, I've been hearing talk that the Combuster is a great, and definitely reliable, sword, as the enemies ride the full barrage of fiery explosions, allowing for maximum damage output. Due to this, the enemies also receive the heavy knockback from the explosions, which is useful for clearing enemies away and allowing for some breathing room. Hearing this, I decided to go along with making the Blazebrand into the Combuster, and test this out for myself. It's definitely proving to be useful in tight situations, especially against the Slags within the Firestorm Citadel.

What are your thoughts?

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 13:06

Zeddy

Acheron does more damage so it's better.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 13:10

Warp-Master

Zeddy is right. Acheron, Argent Peacemaker, and Final Flourish are the only swords worth using anymore. Vendor everything else.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 13:23

Arkate

Argent Peacemaker.

Is certainly a sword.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 13:24

Wolfe-Knight

Wolfe-knight applauds

@warp

Acheron beats final flourish at beasts, and is semi-viable at fiends, so FF is not really worth it. Also if you are going ele guns there are a few better options (alchs for example).

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 13:57

Warp-Master

Uh, yeah, I meant Divine Avenger. For guns, Alchemers (because you can exploit them more easily and effectively than the other guns; Prismatech and Shadowtech deal the most damage so they're the best) and Blitz Needle (because Nick has a stake in it being ridiculously overpowered) are the only sane options.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 14:13

Khamsin

Divine Avenger? Haven't touched it in a long time. Combuster is much better.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 14:47

Traevelliath

Any Brandish line works. Yes, the Acheron is better damage, but that doesn't mean it's the only option.

You guys make it sound like that you can only use the Acheron and JUST the Acheron. You also seem to imply that the Sealed Swords are incapable of doing any damage whatsoever. Believe it or not, before the Brandish Charge got changed, Brandishes were the hipster alternative to their stronger Sealed Sword counter-parts. If you're not charge spamming your Brandish, they still do comparable damage. Debatably the DA's charge is better than the Combuster's in FSC, due to larger AOE and similar damage.

I'm sorry but it just pisses me off when people make it sound like there is only one weapon that can be used in a given situation and if you use a different weapon, you're an idiot that should just quit the game now.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 14:52

Arkate

The DA charge is much better than the combuster's in FSC. It covers a larger area in the tight arena and doesn't light up those blasted oilers. The Voltedge is better than both though :P.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 15:08

Khamsin

@Trav

That's not what I'm saying. I just haven't touched my DA because a brandish is a lot more versatile. You can do high damage combos, you can do tap shots, you can release a point-blank charge, or you can use the charge from a distance. Using a DA, you generally only have the first shot, and maybe the charge attack as options.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 15:28

#10

Traevelliath

However... when you flat out say"Combuster is much better" and "Acheron does more damage so it's better," it makes it sound like there is no other option. You guys are just casually dismissing alternatives because "Combuster/Acheron is better" without actually stating why.

At this point I'm not even sure why it's such a black and white choice, but it has been drilled so hard into my head that I've stopped questioning it.

(Although admittedly the Gran Faust vs Acheron debate is more one-sided...)

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 16:43

#11

Zeddy

@Travelliath

Regarding Acheron.

The game is fairly neatly divided into "Enemies resistant to shadow damage" and "Enemies not resistant to shadow damage". You won't find undeads and gremlins mixed up anywhere, but there will be gremlins with constructs, gremlins with slimes and gremlins with beasts.

Well, that's perhaps a truth with modifications. A handful of silkwings in RJP, that poison city area, sometimes gremlin menders, slime turrets and mecha knights spawn in undead arenas, but generally speaking you have 4 of the enemy families in one group and the remaining 2 in another.

For this reason, if you're a swordsman, it's a good idea to pack a shadow sword. Currently there are two primary shadow swords: Gran Faust and Acheron. Acheron is much faster and can kill more things faster due to its charge attack not being slow, weak, and suicidal.

You could also get the tentacle sword, but it's hard to get and deals less damage than Acheron.

Regarding Combuster.

For the other half of the game, you'll be fighting fiends and undeads, often grouped together. You'll need either a piercing sword or an elemental sword. Brandish has a safe, powerful charge attack and flourish does not. Brandishes inflict strong statuses almost all the time and the status flourishes inflict moderate statuses almost never. The base damage of any Brandish is much, much higher than any Flourish.

So you get a brandish because Brandish > Flourish. Flourish has slightly more range I think maybe? Wasn't that fixed? I'm honestly not sure. I've heard it could be a bit faster perhaps?

So the question is which brandish? You could get Glacius and freeze your enemy with one charge attack, making them easier to dodge and safer to follow up with attacks on. You could get Voltedge and shock your enemy with one charge attack, making them easier to dodge and safer to follow up with attacks on.

Or you could get Combuster and kill your enemy with one charge attack, making them dead. Dead enemies are very easy to dodge.

Granted, part of this is due to enemies having reduced health and damage, penta-hearts, nerfed AI, abundant sparks of lifes and blahblah making actually being concerned for your own survival a non-issue. The way I've seen it, either you've got a grasp on the game's mechanics and enemy AI, and you're thus able to dodge attacks without relying on statuses, or you're bad at the game and even using Glacius you can't stay safe.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 18:11

#12

Tech-Knight-Die

"You could also get the tentacle sword, but it's hard to get and deals less damage than Acheron."

It does...? D:

Thanks!

~Tech-Knight-Die

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 18:33

#13

Halandin

But the poison... I want the

But the poison... I want the poison...

Really though, I wonder, is the poison worth the less damage? Maybe just the carbine for poison? Just rely on my maskeraith? Decisions, decisions...

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 18:53

#14

Zeddy

@Tech-Knight-Die

Well, actually...

There is the matter of poison. Strong poison's not something to mess around with. On, say, a gremlin, strong poison would present a 22.75% reduction in shadow and normal defence, meaning an increase of 44 damage per hit for Obsidian.

This is actually more extra damage than Acheron has over Obsidian. Acheron wins out by a smidge again when you factor in max damage.

However. While Obsidian can catch up to Acheron's damage after poison is applied (against gremlins, who are weak to poison), Acheron is able to just inflict all of that damage straight away. If you hit a gremlin clean with an acheron charge at max damage, it will inflict 804 + 263 x 5 = 2119 damage at depth 24. This is more health than a gremlin can possibly have, even in a full elite party.

Obsidian will do 725 + 5 x 230 = 1875, which is also still more health than a gremlin can possibly have at that depth. What does it matter whether they're poisoned or not? They're dead!

Every brandish is blatantly, ridiculously overpowered, is what I'm saying I guess. Which particular one is the most overpowered is a subject for much debate, but there are many ways to poison your enemies and only one way to reach the raw power of max damage Acheron. That way is using a max damage Acheron.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 18:57

#15

Grittle

@Zeddy Its not the Tentacle

@Zeddy

Its not the Tentacle Swords, its the Hent-

Grittle was then mutilated by Eury

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 19:27

#16

Tech-Knight-Die

@Zeddy

On a completely unrelated note, if a player is poisoned in lockdown, and he runs back to heal, will he not be able to heal or the blue heart thing will clear him of his status and then heal him ?

Well, I am getting Acheron now ;_;

Thanks!

~Tech-Knight-Die

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 19:30

#17

Tech-Knight-Die

@Zeddy

Will you think Acheron will be nerfed?

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 19:30

#18

Tech-Knight-Die

@Zeddy

Will you think Acheron will be nerfed?

Thanks!

~Tech-Knight-Die

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 19:37

#19

Bopp

obligatory

I have a detailed sword guide. It's not updated for the new Acheron and Obsidian Edge yet (I'm waiting for my opinions to solidify), but you can use it to compare the elemental brandishes, at least. The short answer is "Combuster", as some others here have said.

To answer Zeddy's question: Yes, the flourish range was downgraded about a year ago. The flourishes used to have reach about as long as that of DA/GF/Suda/Trig, but now their reach is not much longer than that of a brandish or calibur, if at all. However, the first stroke is still much wider than that of a brandish or calibur, which is worth something. Gorgonzola fiends are much easier to hit with a flourish regular attack than with a brandish regular attack.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 19:41

#20

Battlegrinder

@Grittle

I am amazed it took so long for someone to make that joke.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 20:32

#21

Zeddy

@Tech-Knight-Die

The blue hearts at the base cures all statuses, including poison. I know, I'm annoyed by that too.

Poison will prevent knights from healing at the red pads in the middle of maps, however.

I don't know if Acheron will ever be nerfed or not, but considering how long it's taken them to do anything about the Chaos/Mad problem, you should at least get a year or two out of your Acheron before it happens.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 20:51

#22

Momofuku

What does it matter whether

What does it matter whether they're poisoned or not? They're dead!

In short, you can't pick a wrong brandish even if you tried! Every brandish is great brandish!

(Except the Cautery Sword...)

Sun, 10/27/2013 - 10:13

#23

Arkate

The Cautery sword is great...for regarding as an ilegitimate weapon line!

Ba-dum-tsh!

Sun, 10/27/2013 - 12:53

#24

Krakob

Clarification of Flourish vs Brandish

I believe the two have roughly the same range when hitting straight. However, Flourishes are notably faster (I'd classify them as fast swords, Brandishes as mid-fast) and have a much wider hitbox on the first strike.

Sun, 10/27/2013 - 14:15

#25

Ayelzr

I own all the Brandishes

Not to toot my horn but I own all the Elemental Brandishes plus Acheron and the newly acquired Obsidian. Yes, I like the Obsidian - my new child.

They are all equally good for what they are capable of, but sticking to one isn't always the answer. True that Acheron deals more damage now because of the new toy they put up for Apocrea but let's not be short-sighted about this now. Its a Poison Nightblade - A POISON nightblade, yeah?

I ran with this new sword down on RJP after making it. Gotta say, curbstomped the boss by just spamming its charge attack - which is similar to all Brandishes but with a GOOD chance of procing STRONG Poison, which is a sexy perk. That's something to be reckoned compared to the Dread Venom Striker. It deals poison - good for gremlin menders, JK's and Dairy Queen's [Shadow Lair Boss] edibles, and maybe Lockdown if you're good at it.

Besides this, here is my 2 cents on the Elemental Brandish lines:

Combuster's all-around good. I use this more often than Divine Avenger for its Fire proc, following the logic of a Bomber's Haze bomb use: Ash Of Agni has the most DPS over the other Haze bombs mainly because its DOT with Fire. This was my second Brandish after Glacius.

Glacius is my first Elemental Brandish. I made this one first because it makes running FSC easier with stopping all the Slags in their tracks - since Combuster wouldn't work there in the first place. Besides that, the freezing proc can put an entire line of them in place which is a good set up for another charge or to lessen the number of aggro. So I mostly use this in FSC, Undead, and Fiends if applicable - Fiends because they are a pain in the ass when they move around so much and I usually bring it with my Thorn Blade for any zubats [Greavers].

Voltedge I use rarely. I only use it when I don't need to freeze things in place, although I usually use it on Kats and Graveyards - Mostly to accompany it with a Haze Bomb or an Alchemer to have two status weapons on me. I will never use Voltedge and Storm Driver or Voltaic Tempest except for Lockdown but never in Clockworks - I always mix it up with other status weapons and not just with Voltedge but with any Brandish. The only combination I never use is Fire and Ice for obvious reasons but that's because I haven't devised a strategy to use them both yet.

That's basically how I roll with all my Brandishes.

On Acheron and Obsidian for the Shadow Brandishes: One's got strong poison and the other is raw shadow damage. Raw damage isn't always the answer if you got butterflies or menders with ruthless numbers covering them - Arenas in other words. Acheron may land some hits on a mender if you make a charge attack through the mecha knights and hit a mender directly. Chances are there is more than one, and the Mecha Knights block those charge attacks like immortal objects. So Obsidian does a better job at Arenas but that is just one example of a scenario of Acheron vs. Obsidian that I can give.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 12:09

#26

Terra-Necro

My Opinion

Honestly, no one can classify one brandish as the best. It is more based on what playstyle you prefer.

For people who rely on knockback and raw focused damage, go with Acheron or Combuster (fire proc for combuster is a definite plus).

For people who need to hold crowds in place for breathing room, go for Glacius.

For people who want to deal spread damage to multiple enemies, go with Voltedge.

Obsidian is only useful, at least to me, in JK. Acheron's raw damage overides any healing done by menders (INCLUDING IN ARENAS IF YOU CHARGE SPAM).

I personally only roll with Combuster and Acheron due to knockback and overall safety. I actually despise Voltedge with a passion, simply because I always mess up on timing and try to charge attack enemies (slags mostly), hoping it stuns the enemy like my Combuster does, but it ends up shock proc-ing the monster and getting me hit in the face with a swipe. Glacius is ok, but I don't like being stuck in a crowd (Hail driver does so much better (IN MY OPINION) since the ricochet has a wide area spread if used right).

Also, you will rarely encounter oilers in T3, and the ones in FSC can be disposed of with a few well-placed Combuster charges. That is why I favor Combuster over the rest.

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Brandishes: What's a reliable line to pursue?