I'm at a loss.
At what Star level do you begin to break even when crafting? I'm up to 3* recipe's, but it seems like doing a thousand Tempered Caliba's will almost certainly lose me money, with a small possibility of breaking even.
What's the deal here? Also, first post. :) I'm pretty new, like a few days.
That's very true, but lots of 3* stuff can be bought.
It SEEMS like there's literally no reason to craft 1, 2, or 3* items. Just buy the 3* with the UV you want, and buy the recipes for the upgrades. But then I have to ask, who the hell is wasting all their time and money on crafting 1,2,3* stuff?
Also you seem smart from your other posts, got room on your friends list?
You can definitely break even, heck it, even earn a profit by crafting certain item and also by reducing the habit of constantly underpricing others in a way that you'll put yourself at the short end of the stick.
Syor, making a profit through crafting is how I've made my profit in most games. The difference is, in other games, you start off losing some money until you can get up there crafting the big stuff, then you rake in the cash.
Seeing as 3* is the limit (and even some 3* stuff can't be crafted), I can't find a single item that actually MAKES money.
This isn't factoring in finding the mats, only adding up their average AH costs, the crafting fee, etc.. Then check the average selling fee, combined with the posting fee.
You could find a, I dunno, Damage VS Slime Max something and maybe rake in a couple thousand CE but it doesn't seem to make up for the losses. Even then it's profit based on LUCK. If we're talking luck, you could make like 40kce off a dozen craft's if the uv's are ridiculously good.
Before the update, the easy way to make profit was crafting and selling 5*. The margins on the items on the market was ridiculously good, and even when I planned to undercut people by a good amount to sell my wares quickly, I could still expect at least 70% margins without trying.
The problem is that Three Rings don't want people to make "profits" on this game, because that eats the amount of real money they get from players who want to buy CE from them.
the UV hunters who are rich, bored and want the best gear possible?
Yes, there is money to be made. The first step is to set your prices higher than your costs. The second step is to profit.
If you play the alchemy slots by selling at a loss it is no different than gambling.
So crafting IS a sink. Which is ridiculous.
I'd wager that the amount of items in the world are going DOWN, while the players are going UP. Why would anyone craft 1,2,3* until the need for them increases? Mind boggling.
More like it was too easy to buy your way to endgame. At that point, the player would probably get bored after a few days of smashing Vanaduke and then stop.
They retuned it so the focus is more on the journey than the goal. (But I do think they went quite a bit too far with the energy requirement on 5* items.)
The only way to make a "profit" is via extreme luck with very good UVs. Other than that, you can use Mist Energy for crafting, but that generally results in a net loss from opportunity costs: 50 energy on a regular Calibur will get you 1-2k on the Auction House, or it can get you 2-4k in Tier 2 (more, if you join a party at Basil or lower).
I think the amount of players looking to buy 2* items and the amount of players willing to pay above cost for 2* items is closer than you think. The problem is sellers are way too impatient. The funny thing is, since the two groups intersect the items sell no faster at 2000 than 3600.. buyers just get a better deal and sellers don't make back their money.
You actually suggest I beef up the price and just wait?
That really doesn't seem like it would work in a automated market. It doesn't work on eBay, for example.
I don't think you can compare SK's auction house with eBay. SK sellers have not given the market a chance to determine the worth of items. Instead, they just set the price of many items arbitrarily low probably due to the perpetuated myth that you cannot make money selling crafted goods under 4*. In my opinion, the price points at which some impatient sellers have marked items at is way too low compared to the demand that exists.
I am not suggesting that you do anything. I have nothing more than my observations of the AH and my anecdotal experience. I can tell you that I have made my fair share of 2* items and the demand to buy those above cost is there, even with people flooding the market with below-cost items.
You COULD make money on 2*-3*... except ragecrafting for UVs means you'd have to compete with people who just want to come out even or worse. Which is kinda impossible. Maybe you could try items people aren't filling the AH with?
LoneKnight,
I think the idea that you have to sell everything at a loss if you craft 100 items is silly. Ragecrafting isn't profitable unless you are lucky and luck doesn't last forever. If people want to sell a 2* item for 2k cr let them sell 1000 of them. It just isn't sustainable long-term and eventually they'll fade out of the market.
I think one of the things that could have possibly been happening pre-patch was that a lot of people were funding their ragecraft sessions using money made by selling 5* equipment. This means that they didn't have a lot of time to sit around selling their excess non-UV items since they needed to run JK to level up items to keep the cycle going, not to mention the trade chat was a mess to sell 2* items on since mostly beginners buy 2* items and they didn't know how things work. The AH works for you when you're doing other stuff and it is intuitive enough (except for accepting items from mail, lol) that beginners can use it. This means that it is easier than ever to not have to sell at a loss. If people want to keep selling way below cost though, I say you let them. I don't see how they can sustain it forever and as you can see in a lot of small markets, the prices on items has risen since the release of AH.
@people who think you can't make money,
Steps
1. Read Eeks 1st post.
2. Read Eeks 2nd post.
3. Read Eeks 3rd post.
4. Read Eeks 4rth post.
5. Always do the maximum length Auction (2 days) same listing fee as shortest.
6. Post your auctions intelligently--if there are 50 wolver caps for 2k, wait to post yours until there are not 50 wolver caps for 2k.
7. See step 6, don't think you have to sell everything NOW. If you are investing, then realize that speculation often involves patience. The sure fire way to make 4k crowns in the next hour is to run jelly king, not to sell your crafted items.
8. I will tentatively say, Read and follow Eeks next posts--unless he somehow loses his mind or goes on tilt and rages sarcasm :)
P.S. Crafting has been VERY profitable for me.
It should be noted that a lot of people are also not needing to factor in mat costs, especially for 2-3* items. They have either done a lot of dungeon exploring earlier and thus have huge stores of mats, or buy them from people outside of the AH in bulk for cheap (some people will sell them that way just to get rid of them)
Otherwise, yes, breaking even or coming ahead is certainly possible. Crafting probably provides a better way to make money with short periods of game time (not real time, note, just game time) but dungeon crawling is in general going to be more profitable if you have the time to just grind. I would guess, judging by the recent patch, that this is more or less by 3R's design.
That's my 2cr, at least. Otherwise, I agree with Jeburk and thus Eeks.
Basically 3 rings removed every aspect of the game besides playing to get crowns (and a select few materials) or paying money. and perhaps reselling a popular recipe or 2. or crafting with steam.
and eeks suggestion works based on relying on hope that someone will buy your item for an unreasonable price. a regular 2* item is obviously worth less than a chance to make one with UV. well there could be some margin of profit left in 3*s
You can still make a profit but the question is just like the US economy is that are consumers willing to PAY to appropriate price to sustain crafters?
Overall right now the answer is no but that is for two reasons.
1. UV market and the rich have deflated prices of items below their crafting value- This is the reason you don't have consumers buying at the appropriate price. Items are being flooded for the UV market. Since those who are rich and spam for UV to sell for that gigantic profit destroy the market value it costs to actually transmute said item.
Take the wolver series for example and I'm going to use 100 CE=5000 crowns.
You normally see a wolver in the AH being sold for about 2k crowns. However the transmute cost to even create a wolver item is 2.9k crowns(50 CE and 400 crowns) and that's not even including the cost of mats. So really a consumer should be paying about 3.5k for a wolver coat instead. This helps sustain a profit for the crafter to create more items for the community.
So what you have is the hard value being deflated which destroys the ability for the entire community to be able to play this game for free for long periods of time. I understand that UV items should be valued more because the UV adds a soft or fiat value to the item thus raising the cost. Instead however you have the hard value being deflated, which destroys the economy.
2. The community is stupid and cheap- Yes including myself, we are all a bunch of fucktards. A majority of players really don't know basic algebra and understand the reason why items that are crafted should have a hard value with no UV and a soft value with a UV. They don't understand the algebraic equation either as a crafter or a consumer to buy and sell at a profit, no do they understand the algebraic equation to sell items at a profit. Some of it is simply following a walmart model but these people still ignore the fact that UNLESS you only use MIST ENERGY to craft items the chances of you producing any profit is going to be slim when the hard value is so deflated. Not to mention that the community doesn't actually value the actual cost nor do they actually want to work to get the crowns or CE to actually purchase said items from crafters.
Only reason a majority of players left or rarely play anymore is because that's the only way to maintain a working business model. You are either uber rich(or you buy with real money) and don't need CE anymore or you use mist energy to make items, put em on the AH and log off.
What was interesting about this game was that before the drastic transmute cost changes was that you had a dual economy that through the use of basic algebra one could actually benefit and progress making this a free to play game on a consistent basis without the need of CE. This latest change really did take that away from all players which makes this game no longer truly free to play. You will always need a method for the community to sustain itself without the need of purchasing with real money.
All very true, Tenmar.
It's sad. I like this game but I'll be damned if I'm going to tell my friends about it. They'll feel totally cheated out.
It's too bad, too. It was an interesting experiment- Make in-game currency actual REAL currency.
It just all feels too real. Taxes here, fees there, an actual hand dipping in to your pocket if you want any chance of playing. I mean, you can stand in the Market Square begging, which is all too realistic for my tastes.
I have a choice. Either I leave this game now, as it's obviously designed for very rich people to spend their money on very virtual armor. Or I wait a week, spent 30 bucks on CE, instantly get level 5 everything, and then not know what to do with my account. xD Money wasted, really.
i am making 100 energy every item sold. i have sold so far 2 whole sets today. with a UV, i could get 500 energy, even if it is low.
you got to price your items and wait smartly... sometimes i notice that people even skip lower priced items because they dont see them lower in the auction list, so i put it to 4 hours if there are many.
Maybe you missed the point that post 15
Is the god damn solution to your whining problem. No offence, if you didn't get how post 15 can help you, I don't know what you're asking for.
Pricing energy at the market rate for CE doesn't necessarily apply for items that require less than 100 energy to craft, as that can come from a player's daily Mist Energy allowance.
So on a day when you're too busy for Clockworks runs you can spend a few minutes crafting a couple of 2* items to keep your ME from going to waste. Put them on sale at the Auction House with a minimum bid of 440cr (400cr Alchemy fee + 10% AH sales fee) plus whatever you feel is reasonable for mats, and then anything more than that is profit.
Do that a few times and you can start buying CE to craft 3* items as well.
You won't make mad bank like you would crafting and selling 4* and 5* items, but it's enough to keep things ticking over. Specialise in items that can be upgraded to 5* and you should have a fairly steady stream of customers, as new players work out how the Alchemy tracks work and look for items that have potential beyond Tier 1.
I haven't read all of the responses. But I'd just say it depends. 2* items have never been profitable and only half the time break even. 3* items pre-patch were usually break even. 4* and 5* had plenty of room for profit. In fact when people were charging 3k CE for 5* items they were making a ton of profit. it only cost 850 CE per 5* item, including crowns - excluding mats (or assuming u had them without having to buy). Those days are gone for the time being.. and the current break even for 3* items (in crowns) is roughly 15k. If u can sell 3* items for more than 15k in today's market then you can make a slight profit. With 2* items.. ~2900 is break even assuming u already had the mats. Take an owlite shield.. if you sold it for 3k you still aren't breaking even because in an alternate universe.. you could've just sold the owlite feathers and came out ahead.
Hope my opinion helps.
I've never rage crafted before to get specific UVs. The AH now makes it possible for me to sell the excess 2* and 3* items which I have no need for and make use of all the excess materials in my inventory. I didn't want to just NPC sell the items or spam trade chat. The 2* gear have been selling fast at cost to recoup production costs. The 3* gear have been sold at profit. I have the starting bid low and the buyout at about twice the price of the starting bid. So far, the gear have been selling at buyout. What this tells me is that there is an influx of new players looking for gear cheaper than vendor prices.
I think too many people maybe rage crafting the calibur line at the moment because a Leviathan with a decent UV is a good multi-purpose sword. The recipes are easily obtained in Haven. What you want to craft is a high demand item from a rare recipe.
As far as materials go, items which are components of rage crafting like swordstones will sell faster and fetch higher prices. Also items which go into the 4* and 5* versions of caliburs, wolver gear, owlite shields, etc will also fetch higher prices.
I have several pieces of prepatch unbound 4* and 5* swords and guns left after closing my guild store. I haven't decided what to do with the leftovers yet. The AH fees are too steep. I may save the unbounds for prizes and special gifts or place some of them up on the forum bazaar over time.
I got lucky a few times, but I still broke out pretty much even when I'm mass crafting
100 ME a day, 2000 crowns a day. 10 Haze Bombs
I buy light shards at 15-20 each, and gel drops at 10 each.
540 for the Light Shards
200 for the Gel Drops
2000 for 10 crafts
2740 Crowns Total a day + ME
10 Haze Bombs, assuming no UVs, gets me 3k from the vendor. If I'm venturous I can sell them to other players for 350 each for 3.5k total
260 crown profit a day, assuming no UVs.
You can probably count on getting one or two UVs though, not sure if good or not, those sell for quite a bit more.
This morning's batch I was especially happy about, 4 UVs.
High Slime
Very High Slime
High Beast
High Charge Time Reduction ( Sold for 2.5k CE)
Yup, it's profitable in the long run.
High Slime
Very High Slime
High Beast
High Charge Time Reduction ( Sold for 2.5k CE)
WTF
i am lucky to get a darn MEDIUM lol... i go whole batches with no UV. not to mention things like charge time lol
your profit is pure luck there today xD
Just chiming in from recent experiences with the AH, crafting 1-Star Items.
I've got a lot of Red Shards and Brimstones lying around, so I thought I'd put them to good use and churn out lots of Hot Edges for the newbies.
I price them enough to recover Crafting and listing costs and to make enough to craft my 3-star gears (CE inclusive).
Let's just say I get by. I'd prefer to do dungeon runs on ME, but I need my 3-Star gear.
I am still in shock that people buy 1-star gear.
It's easy to make a nice profit crafting 1-3 star items... if you use your mist energy to do it instead of CE. This is a big part of why prices on finished goods are below what people like tenmar like to call "hard value"; he assumes that either the only way to make an item is with CE, or that ME is worth the same amount of crowns as CE. Neither of those things is true.
A lot of days I just don't have time to dive into the clockworks to use my ME, but I can use it to churn out 2 quick wolver coats in the morning before work. Because the energy was effectively free for me (would have gone to waste otherwise), the total cost to produce the wolver coat was only about 750 crowns including materials (if you get them at a good price). Considering that, why wouldn't I drop my prices to the 2000-2500 level if that's what it takes to move the inventory? I would go even lower if that's what it took to make the sale.
TL/DR: It's VERY hard to build up a quick fortune crafting items in SK, because you will be competing on price with people who are willing to use their ME for crafting purposes. You can build a slow fortune, but there's no way to buy a couple recipes and crank out tons of items per day to flip for a sweet profit.
I don't think using ME for that kind of profit WORKS for me..
I mean, if I choose to take a 1 month break from SK, then I can come online every day and quickly craft myself 2 things.. Making.. 2k crowns? So in a month I get 60kcr? Which is about 1300 CE?
Remember, that's basically taking a MONTHS break from the game for a measy $4.50 in CE. This is stupid.
So I'll reword the question. Can you break even, or make a profit, in crafting, while still actually playing the game sometimes. Really, one run through the first half of T2 costs me 30 ME and gets me over 1k plus heat+mats. We can't be counting ME into this.
Oh, and ME only works for 1* stuff, anything higher costs 200, right? So really, daily profit should be, uh, 500cr? 400?
What I'm gonna do? Accept that this game takes real money to play. I'm fine with that, it just seemed like I had to figure that out on my own which felt slightly.. bait and switchy.. So now that I know, I'll just pay 50 bucks and get 20k CE in a few days. I'd pay that for a usual game, and 20k CE = 700k and about 6k CE, which should be enough to get me to the point where I can EASILY solo Stratum 4 for maximum coinage. Until then, I guess I'll just come online for a few T1 runs for fun every day.
you use mist to do FULL t2 runs (depth 9-17) and earn yourself 5-7k cr +mats +heat for a measly 80 energy. this is enough to get you infinite runs with a margin for some profit. you use this profit to fund buy and sell sessions on the AH.
well ive made a profit (like 200-400cr per sale) on cryotech alchemers. i factor in CE cost in that computation but i use mist so i basically upped my profit to 2.9k per sale. i think ive already saturated it tho so good luck with that.
really the only people who cant get themselves self sustaining in the game for absolutely free are the complete idiots.
The answer is no: you do not break even on crafting, nor are you supposed to.
Most 4* and 5* equipment cannot even be sold or traded to other players.