Simply put: is it worth upgrading the Silent Nightblade into Acheron? I am aware that fully-heated 4* are stronger than unheated 5* equipment but is the extra blast of Acheron's charge worth the weaker normal attack?
And no, I am not getting the Acheron because it is ridiculously buffed now, I've been meaning to get a shadow-type weapon for some time now (Acheron possibly being my first 5*) for use against giant lichens and gremlin menders. Plus, it looks pretty nice.
With Acheron being the most powerful sword in the game, I'd say a level 10 Acheron is definitely something to aim for. While it will take a while to get to level 10 and the CTR Med it brings, it should still be noted that the charge of the line is greatly enhanced at 5* as the size and amount of explosions increase. You can compensate for the lack of CTR with other sources of it, such as your Battle Sprite and Chaos gear. I'd also like to add that Acheron might be one of few cases where the level 1 5* weapon is actually stronger than the level 10 4* weapon as Acheron was the only part of the alchemy line that was buffed.
It would be nice if we had a formula for how much damage adding a level of heat does to a weapon. The problem with collecting that data is that anyone without a nice supply of fire crystals would have to grind a ton, and anyone with a huge supply of crystals will most likely have to go through the trouble of making another 5* to heat.
There have been attempts to quantify how heat affects weapons, for example, here:
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/83029
But I don't think anyone has got it down to a certain formula or algorithm.
If you guys want, I can dump some data as I heat my Silent Nightblade (already crafted) per level and the heat-1 Archeron. Because I don't want to pay for radiants and that is all that amount to.
Is there a common standard when gathering data? It's not science without a proper method.
Also, I only play during the weekends. Expect slow results.
Yes, please gather the data. We can always use more data.
There is no common standard when gathering data, because each kind of data requires slightly different protocols. The Lancer Knightz data project describes its experimental procedure on each data page.
A Silent Nightblade has four damage numbers: (A) first and second strokes, (B) third stroke, (C) charge stroke, and (D) charge explosion. There are four kinds of targets: (A) slimes and gremlins, (B) constructs and beasts, (C) fiends and undead, and (D) lost souls and howlitzer heads. (And Vanaduke's body and mask, but don't worry about that.) There are 10 heat levels, and 11 levels of damage bonus (from -4 to +6). The depth also affects how much damage the weapon does. So try to gather as many of these combinations as you can.
You might try working at depths 19 or 24, for easy comparison to the Lancer Knightz data. Or you might try depth 23 (in a Tier 3 guildhall Advanced Training Hall), for easier comparison to Shard Squad's data. When you write down a number, just be sure to note the stroke type, the enemy type, the heat level, the total damage bonus in effect, and the depth.
Alrighty then. I'll get on it as soon as I get back home.
EDIT: Could anyone explain what the charge stroke is?
"Charge stroke" just means how much damage the charge attack does. But for weapons with complicated charge attacks, another number, called the "charge finish", also shows up in the charge attack.
On a sword like Combuster, Gran Faust, or Barbarous Thorn Blade, the main part of the charge attack is the "charge stroke", and the projectiles are the "charge finish".
On a sword like Sudaruska, the first blast of the charge attack is the "charge stroke", and the second blast is the "charge finish". Final Flourish is similar.
On a sword like Leviathan Blade, there is no "charge finish", because only one damage number shows up during the charge attack.
I am back with some data (uncompleted as of 11.27.13)
I don't know where to put it so I'll just dump it here. I will update as I gather more data.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApDqX94Why7adGtjWndTd2JoNnR...
You are doing these at the same depth, right?
Provided that you are, and just as a quick outlook (we'd need more data)- the difference between level 7 and level 1 is 24 on the splosions, which is a 22% increase in damage for heat, and a much larger increase in charge time reduction for silent nightblade over acheron.
Acheron gains a 25% increase in power on just the explosions from the 5th explosion, and about a 20% increase in damage for the upgrade. The power increase would be scaled down by the heat (assuming that your heat can be extrapolated to 5*)
So yes, it would be worth upgrading IF you can get to +6 charge time reduction for swords without jeopardizing your other stats (To get CTR via a trinket would require you to give up a damage/asi med on your silent nightblade)? This would require a UV of CTR med or higher and full chaos.
Of course, you can get a few levels up to around 5, and that'd probably put it over the edge with a CTR low UV.. but the real issue is that it'd take away from the normal swings until you got to around level 8 and that it'd make more sense to develop your other gear prior to acheron. So if all you want is the charge, then I'd recommend upgrading it after you get your chaos set/CTR trinkets done/any CTR uv rolled onto it, or whenever you can afford to heat it past 8.
Yes; to be more precise, I've been doing each of my tests at the Advanced Training Center in my guild hall.
And alright, I'll be sure to take your advice in consideration.
EDIT: Also, stats for level 8 silent nightblade will be up shortly.
EDIT: Level 8 stats have been posted.
That's...some rather shocking data. Compared to my heating data for a Glacius (yes, the 5*) the difference is less than, I think, 25 damage when comparing attacks at each heat level.
Yeah I don't know how it happened but it did... So I got my glacius back and is now a full level 4 and I am going to keep my strike until I hear radiants come back.. Because a level 1 blitz sucks more than a level 10 strike needle.... So really I would stay so,e weapons 4 star
I have finished posting the level 10 stats of the silent nightblade.
It is now done(?)
I have posted level 1 values of the Acheron.
Awesome. I'm very glad to see these data.
Minor point: You have the second chunk of data labeled "Acheron", but you don't have the first chunk of data labeled "Silent Nightblade". Please label, for posterity.
You probably want that CTR med on lvl 10 on your acheron, because the charge takes some time without that. But I think the dmg is much better so go with Acheron and take your pet perk with you or some equip with CTR bonus (Chaos)