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I Have a Dream...for Gunners.

46 replies [Last post]
Wed, 11/13/2013 - 16:44
Gianor's picture
Gianor

Today I start a rally, against the oppression that we gunslingers receive by playing, by fighting, by existing.

Us gunslingers are no different than you strikers out there, we are all probably teens ranging from 13-23 years old, who really like this game, yet you people class us as different than yourselves, and create a stereotype system in the game. All knights are created equal, we each have the possibilities to become a sword, gun, or bomb user, we each have the potential to be a professional or an elite, and we all have the capability to choose how we play.

Most people curve to swords seeing as how they are the highest DPS weapons currently in the game, but just because the majority favors one over the other doesn't mean you should count the others out just yet, and especially treat them like aliens, or just completely ignore them and leave whenever they show up. As guns are meant to be used long range, we tend to try to avoid as many enemy units as possible, making people mark us as cowards, and idiots for not using swords. Just because we aren't as effective as you, or because we aren't as brave as you doesn't mean we aren't better or worse than you.

Some gunslingers give up gunning, either because they aren't good at it, they get criticized for it, or they don't do enough damage. I've seen this a few times, and I hate seeing a player quit gunslinging because they got insults about it, or even worse, quit Spiral Knights altogether for being called a newbie, and getting non-helpful responses from veteran players that treasure their pride too much to simply point them in the right direction.

What I can't stand is that we get insults and comments about one of our prime weapons, the Polaris. In Player versus Enemy, we dare not bring our Polaris along, lest we be playing solo, otherwise, most strikers in our parties will immediately go solo or leave due to the nature of the gun. In Player versus Player, we also can't bring out our Polaris, as strikers view it as a gun that is just meant to annoy with, and if we do have it equipped, we'll get frowned upon for using it. Same applies for the Supernova as well.

As for Lockdown, we get even more criticism here than anywhere else. Since as explained before, us gunners tend to try to stay away from enemy units as much as we can, which is why we almost all choose the striker class, so that we can dodge enemies easier. As dodging is essential to our playstyle, we will kite, flank, dodge, and move around as much as we can do avoid getting hit by enemy units, which in turn causes the enemies much grief in the fact that they can't catch us as easily as other strikers out there. And we usually get looked down upon by the fact we use the Valiance and the Polaris, two of the most effective guns in Lockdown, who's usage is discouraged because they are classified as annoying weapons. The ironic thing is that most strikers also use these two guns as a common sidearm, but that's beside the point. Argent Peacemaker, Sentenza, and Obsidian Carbine are also greatly shamed weapons due to their sheer speed and 6 bullet clip. Most strikers complain for one or both of two reasons: It gives them invincibility frames, or it interrupts their attacks. I once got a lecture on this because I was robbing another player of their 'much needed damage to uphold their reputation', when damage doesn't really matter, but that's personal opinion.

So I'm consulting, nay, asking you to stop the negativity against us gunslingers, just because we're different from you strikers.

I have a dream for us, and I pray that someday it will come true, for gunslingers, and for all individuals out there.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 16:49
#1
Xtweeterx's picture
Xtweeterx
The MLKjr is strong with this

The MLKjr is strong with this one...

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 16:49
#2
Bitsbee's picture
Bitsbee

I thought your dream was for Radiant Fire Crystals.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 17:01
#3
Xtweeterx's picture
Xtweeterx
@Bitsbee

You drive me to impale my face.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 17:47
#4
Bamzalot's picture
Bamzalot
My solution

For the most part, I myself am a gunslinger. I'm good at it. I'm also good with bombs so I will often combine the two in one hybrid set. But I am absolutely horrible with swords. Well, most of them anyways.

In my experiences with guns the best solution to this problem I can come up with is simple:

Armor: Chaos Cloak
Helmet: Perfected Seerus Mask
Shield: Swiftstrike Buckler
Trinket: Elite True Shot
Sprite Perk: True Shot
Weapon 1: Nova Driver
Weapons 2: Umbra Driver
Weapons 3-4: What ever you want. Bombs work great for utility as mentioned earlier.

Now, charge up those Novas and Umbras and watch as all the power of any Striker is instantly crushed under the weight of your ability to one hit kill practically everything in the game while keeping you distance at the same time!

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 17:17
#5
Leekcoco's picture
Leekcoco

Not sure where you're seeing this prejudice, most gunners who do well are often praised in LD as bullets have a much smaller hit box than a Gran Faust. I'd consider rage a compliment too. Polaris is hated for a reason. It's too easy to use for something so laggy, annoying and effective in both PvE and PvP. The people using it incorrectly are the ones making it easy for insults to be flung our way.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 18:01
#6
Whimsicality's picture
Whimsicality

Beep.

I don't like fighting gunners for the sole fact that any gunner worth their salt is incredibly difficult to match up to their skill if you're used to slaughtering the squishies.

Few people seem to realize it, but if you have the aim and the slipperiness, you can drop some mother-trucking bows on those suckas

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 18:39
#7
Crashburnboom's picture
Crashburnboom
I chose swordsman over

I chose swordsman over gunslinger because;
- No decent piercing gun WITH a freeze ability to deal with wolvers
- Wolvers teleport
- Gear looks old and somewhat out-of-place in a place of a medieval-futuristic theme.
- Bad damage compared to swords
- Arenas and stuff sometimes preventing kiting and long range attack due to close proximity
- Reloading times (Have not mastered gun-switching/shield cancelling)

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 18:53
#8
Sandwich-Potato's picture
Sandwich-Potato
/e coughs.

Bad damage compared to swords

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Sandy's Wrestling Brawl. On the right hand, we have the champion, the solo hero, the famed BLITZ NEEDLE!

{BOO!}

Shut up Brackets. On the left hand, we have the challenger, the man doing it for his family, the STORM DRIVER!

{BOOOO-}

Woah. Brackets here was suddenly killed by a volley of pierce bullets and a powerful orb that burst upon impact, releasing more orbs into him. Huh. Now, anyways. Here, we have the neutral dummy, the LOST SOUL! We hacked it to give it rapid health regen and thousands of health.

Taking bets...NOW.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 18:56
#9
Usevnsevnsixfivfor's picture
Usevnsevnsixfivfor

@^ Dude do you know how effective alchemer switch-shooting and internal riochets are?

To the OP, I actually like gunslingers and their role in their party. In FSC for example, some spikes are between me and some slags. Now I could pull out my Nova or Blitz or Combuster charge (yes these are three weapons I bring to EFSC all the time and I am a striker with two guns and a sword), but I am busy killing this hoarde of slags. Without the gunslinger to finish the unoccupied slags from a distance, I would've had to waste a SoL or leave the party (PSA: DO NOT BEG LIKE A NOOB FOR REVIVES!! PROVIDE YOUR OWN SPARKS OR ASK (NOT BEG!! ASK ONCE) SOMEONE TO REVIVE YOU FOR 1500CR!!), but because the gunner saved me, I can now blitz this Trojan that wouldv'e killed the same gunslinger. See how it works?

About Polaris, I am fine with players bringing them if they are 1) heating it (optional) and 2) not being a troll with it and using the knockback wisely. In fact in LD the amount of time I get hit by Polari shots are suprisingly low whilst I puke Combuster charges at them. Not that it doesn't burn my framerate, though.

To any gunslingers out there, do not listen to the so-called "elitists" that claim gunslinging is high risk low reward and then teleport to a LD match and bring their Polaris along just to prove his hipocracy. Do not give up gunslining, because SK needs more players of your style. Heck, the guntastrophe might even destroy the guns to oblivion so you might want to enjoy your last moments of gunslinging.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:07
#10
Whimsicality's picture
Whimsicality

If anything, gunning is just as low risk, high reward as swords are. No risk, highest reward if you dual switch Storm+Hail driver.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:24
#11
Sirius-Voltbreaker's picture
Sirius-Voltbreaker
Wisdom.

I agree 100% even as a swordie. You deserve no less respect than swordies.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 21:23
#12
Skayeth's picture
Skayeth
I don't underestimate gunners

Why? Cuz in LD they switch-spam. I respect them.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 21:27
#13
Raunwynn's picture
Raunwynn
Gunslingers are sweet and hot

Gunslingers are sweet and hot like good Chinese food.
http://imageshack.com/i/1n7nm4j

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 21:28
#14
Skayeth's picture
Skayeth
Ok...

So you said good chinese food and you showed us a pic of yourself....so you're saying you are good chinese food?

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 21:40
#15
Rangerwillx's picture
Rangerwillx
I think 4 letters describe this post..

tl;dr

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 21:55
#16
Raunwynn's picture
Raunwynn
Oh... Did I show a picture of

Oh...
Did I show a picture of myself?
How did that get in there?
I'm so embarrassed!
I'm so sweet and natural like Jennifer Lawrence.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 21:58
#17
Skayeth's picture
Skayeth
@Raunwynn

...... -_-

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 22:28
#18
Gianor's picture
Gianor
TL;DR

The TL;DR version is the second to last sentance in this post.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 22:30
#19
Skayeth's picture
Skayeth
@Gianor

What is tl;dr????

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 22:34
#20
Traevelliath's picture
Traevelliath

TL;DR = Teal Deer

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 22:35
#21
Skayeth's picture
Skayeth
@Traevelliath

Thank you. Right, this is tl;dr.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 22:39
#22
Collgeta's picture
Collgeta
Defend my pulsar!

You tell 'em bro!

Stop looking down on my poor little kilowatt, polaris is a good gun line! Definitely my favorite.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 22:41
#23
Skayeth's picture
Skayeth
@Collgeta

I love your post, but I aim for total domination!

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 00:47
#24
Xtweeterx's picture
Xtweeterx
@Collgeta

"poor little killowatt"?

e.0

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 02:07
#25
Shadowstarkirby's picture
Shadowstarkirby
Well...

I believe 'everyone's', not just swordies, rage on Polaris is just; you'd be surprised how many new players use this gun primarily, which is improper if one has a sense of party etiquette and challenge. It has it's uses, but it shouldn't come even close as to being a primary whatsoever and anyone who seriously uses it as so better be a god at it to not enrage members cause it is by far the most obnoxious weapon to grace the arsenal. I've never been kicked for flat out having it equipped, nor have I ever been kicked once I started using it...but I guess that's cause there's only one or two places I'd ever think of needing that instantaneous knockback and shock.

Now LD, I simply laugh when I'm a gunslinger and get trash talked when I flee on low health, back peddle n' shoot, dodge, use status alchemers, Valiance--pretty much anything you do that doesn't lead you gravitate your knight to his/her Flourish will net you 32 different flavors of insults. But really, striker gunners alone don't get a bad rap, guardian bombers do as well for example, just not nearly as much cause they're easily mauled, unlike most striker gunners that are more agile, less reliant on UVs to defeat players, and have a larger variety of usable weapons over swords and bombs which keeps many people from adapting to their loadouts and requires more effort to fight.

I'd say more cause there is a lot to say, but I'm tired and making too many run on sentences. Gunslingers are awesome much like swordies are (wish I could say the same for bombs), Polaris is dumb, LD has a couple of sore losers, and if people are being turned off from gunslinging cause some guy can't change his tactics and swipe you where you may strafe, then please don't stop.

...but if you're using Polaris recklessly, by all means, stop.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 02:25
#26
Soccernano's picture
Soccernano
Im sorry...

This is just a response to crashburnboom.... (i myself am a gunslinger)

- Your right, but we dont need that.

- When wolves tele... we wait until they start calling or about to bite until we unleash our fury on them.

- Who cares about medival theme when it has good defense..??

- Gunners are mainly supporters....

- Thats why we have something called strategy..

- THEN MASTER IT!!!!!!!!!!!

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 08:17
#27
Magnum-Frost's picture
Magnum-Frost
-Generic Subject Line-

I've been a swordie since I started playing, but I'm trying to become more of a gunner because it is often safer and can be more effective. And what is this about gunners being oppressed? Bombers can't get that all-too-necessary CTR Med from heating to level 10 because they don't have any radiants, without that boost, bombs are almost completely obsolete.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 08:18
#28
Skayeth's picture
Skayeth
@Gianor

As far as I'm concerned, Valiance and Polaris is seriously overpowered.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 13:38
#29
Raunwynn's picture
Raunwynn
How is Valiance

How is Valiance overpowered?
I've never used it.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 15:36
#30
Bluesupernovah's picture
Bluesupernovah
Go Gunslingers!

I don't think the Valiance is overpowered. In fact I think it needs a buff. I mean adding some damage to it wouldn't be to bad right?

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 15:42
#31
Aplauses's picture
Aplauses

Valiance is not overpowered.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 16:34
#32
Shadowstarkirby's picture
Shadowstarkirby
@Annilation

Polaris is overpowered in both PvE and PvP, sure. But Valiance? It's average in PvE as a swordie sidearm and awesome in PvP, being solid like other popular guns, only you're trading damage for a larger and longer range bullet.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 16:42
#33
Leekcoco's picture
Leekcoco

Valiance is balanced by the fact that it deals normal damage, which everyone and their mothers are wearing in PvP save for a few exceptions. If that changes, cough, the story might change... <_<

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 16:48
#34
Skayeth's picture
Skayeth
@leekcoco

cough cough gunner cough update cough cough

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 16:52
#35
Arkate's picture
Arkate
The Valiance is totally underpowered.

Normal damage will always be underpowered, because specialized damage is always higher. You have two equipment slots as a minimum you know. And almost all levels have only two damage weakness. So there you go, Valiance = useless. And even more so quite soon.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 17:04
#36
Bitsbee's picture
Bitsbee

I'd rather use a Valiance than a Supernova, Netralizer, Iron Slug, & Volcanic Pepperbox in a Group.

But if I was to go Solo, Supernova wins me over.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 20:53
#37
Skayeth's picture
Skayeth
@Bitsbee

I do like SuperNova.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 21:16
#38
Xtweeterx's picture
Xtweeterx
@Annilaton

Mmmm... Admitting that to the majority of LD'ers will get you killed one day.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 21:51
#39
Skayeth's picture
Skayeth
@Xtweeterx

Nah, people still use the Polaris.

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 09:31
#40
Theirillusion's picture
Theirillusion
Move this to The Colisseum

dem gunners be activatin' invincibleframes, causing death and plague to any nearby team member including them selves.

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 10:56
#41
Gianor's picture
Gianor
@Theirillusion

This is one of the main points of this thread, sure we may activate invincibility frames, but with any gun with 3 shots or more, you can chain shots to make it so they can't attack either, leaving them as sitting ducks, assuming they do not have a guardian shield.

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 11:07
#42
Corewalker's picture
Corewalker
Hisssss.

There is a difference between a polaris user who treats his gun as a sword and a polaris user that treats his gun as a gun.

One uses it to smash everything without concern for teammates, the other uses it as support.

Being an aformentioned "god" at polaris is not hard. Aim away from teammates, make sure the blast from your bullets does not explode on them to obscure their vision (and if so, not for long please), and avoid blasting enemies mid-windup. if you can use your polaris to seperate mobs from the crowd, do so, but do not push them into other players.

Its just like being a good bomber, except with no chargetime.

I use polaris as my main sidearm, when I am not using supernova (or a driver,AP,Callahnnnnnnnnnnnng, etc). I have been scolded for it once, and ever since then I have always seen it as a support gun.

And I will boldly admit that I hope OOO soon adds a shadow version to the current lineup. Catalyzer needs teammates using it too.
Hiss.

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 12:35
#43
Tenkii's picture
Tenkii
;_;

@ Risk/reward blah?
I can do every switching technique currently known out there - alternating guns, using the same gun as much as I need - it can be physically taxing if you're doing long runs (I avoid having to do LOA for this reason), but in terms of speed, I think it's comparable/as good as swords. Now with a vortex, swords will definitely outdo guns in terms of efficiency, but aside from that, deliberate post-max streams of alchemer shots (or well-placed max CTR shots) can rival/surpass sword-only dps, I'm pretty sure.

I have more sympathy for bombers, cause they're just gimped in terms of DPS. I really wanted to believe in the new shard bombs, but they just don't cut it.

@ LD criticism:
Suck it up ¦3

I've had people try to downplay my gun use before : "be a man and use swords, noob" - when I use guns in CLOSE RANGE, as a RECON. WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT FROM ME, I CAN'T EVEN KITE >:/
...then I remember, I play recon in a world of strikers. I do what I need to to win if that's my goal, and if it means infuriating the other team, I will do it regardless of criticism.

Also, shock gun lines are your response to team invincibility frame whiners. I've had a couple of knowledgeable teammates realize and thank me for shocking their targets (because during the shock animation, there are no invincibility frames - double ricochets, OHKO charge shots, team-mobbing become extra effective on shocked enemies).

------

well, I guess I'm a bit of a special case. Not everyone can double-switch (or even single-switch) guns, but it's not too different. Swords are pretty straightforward to use and so it's easier to see their potential. Guns take a lot more work from a player standpoint, but believe me, they can compete in terms of (PVE) DPS and viability.

Should the gun update buff any of the alchemers, I will feel sadly overpowered.

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 13:26
#44
Skayeth's picture
Skayeth
@Random People

This discussion is going nowhere, and I stuck to the topic, then I left for a while. When I come back next time, this will be in the Realm of Graves. Wasn't this originally about Gunslinger Oppression?

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 14:55
#45
Gianor's picture
Gianor
This threads main topics.

1: Why we all have the capability to be want we want to be in the game.
2: How us gunslingers get insulted for our playstyle.
3: How insults and can effect some players.
4: The nature of Polaris and why we get insulted about it.
5: Our Lockdown playstyles and why we get insulted about it.

It is still about gunslinger oppresion my friend, it has just curved more to the polaris/lockdown aspect as of late, rather than the playstyle topic from whence you arrived.

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 15:24
#46
Skayeth's picture
Skayeth
@Gianor

Alright. Let me resume the discussion.

Gunners should be in the game because first, gunners are never considered OP compared with swords. All the stress and money gunners have to go through just as much as swords just to get the weapons they want. Swordsman are just as overpowered and equal. In fact, what guns lose in damage, makes up for the range, the spirit and accuracy of the user. The oppression is huge. In LD especially. I always hear more insults on how one person is gun spamming than compliments on how accurate his bullets are. The Polaris especially.

Why complain about the Polaris? Sure, nice dmg, some nice knockback, shock, and explosion, but any LD player can block or dodge that because of its slowness. Even more, it only deals Elemental dmg. Gunners these days, again especially in LD, are prosecuted by swordies verbally about how overpowered guns are. How are guns more overpowered than SWORDS??? Take the Acheron. Can the Polaris these days more overpowered than the Acheron?!

Lockdown wouldn't be LD if it weren't for the colors and banners of the gunners. Without guns, many LDers wouldn't get the same high damage and backup like before.

Let's end Gunslinger Oppression.

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