Spiral Knights - What does OOO consider offensive and harassment?

What does OOO consider offensive and harassment?

48 replies [Last post]

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 08:47

Whimsicality

I'm quite curious. There's letting out a cuss word every now and then, in a joking playful manner, there's getting angry, and then there's...

Vile, harmful statements that exceed past "competitive smacktalk". I've seen death threats, racist hateful slurs, homophobia, telling others to commit suicide, and just flat out harassment for the silliest things.

So. How far would I have to go in order to warrant being tagged with a legitimate "Offensive Chat" or "Harassment" complaint? Because I've seen some pretty ugly behavior that went unpunished. Would I have to harass someone for 15 minutes straight, rather than 10? Would I have to purposely drop sexist, racial, homophobic slurs in every sentence? Just how inconsistent is the Terms of Service applied, anyways?

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 08:55

Blazzberry

I have no mouth and I need to scream

The answer is simple, whimsy.

You can either call out people on forums, name and shame albeit you have done a little bit of this in the op, or just flat out drop f bombs to literally every poster. I don't recommend this stuff. :x

Cheers.

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 09:01

Whimsicality

If it were that simple, I'd see a lot less people around.

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 09:06

Bitsbee

You look adorable.

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 09:07

Corewalker

Hiss.

Harass (v):
to annoy or bother (someone) in a constant or repeated way.

Harassment can be as extensive as hundreds of messages, or as simple as two. Any aggressive and improper behavior can be reported as harassment. depending on the nature of the harassment, the player will receive a temporary suspension or, in the case of repeat offenses, a permanent ban.

a single instance may or may not be acted upon by the GMs, depending on severity.

Hiss.

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 10:09

Pepperonius

Ask Fehzor

They know all about getting the bans for these things.

#freefehzor

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 10:28

Whimsicality

Shibaka puts it the best. "I don’t get why we don’t ban [toxic players], but we ban people for joking/cursing in Haven? and other dumb reasons? These are the people that are the real problem. "

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 11:13

Draycos

See also: the letter of the law vs. the spirit of the law.

The people in charge don't seem to fully understand the intent of the rules, and thereby punish people with only "the letter of the law".

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 11:33

Fangel

If you feel harassed, report it

Ask them kindly to stop. Someone was saying rather rude and offensive things in Haven and zone chat a while ago, and I asked them to stop. To my surprise, they stopped. If they continued to be offensive I would have reported them, but they stopped. Problem solved.

If someone is making you feel uncomfortable, don't fight fire with fire. Simply ask kindly for them to stop, and if they don't, report them and use the /ignore command. Three Rings will get a detailed game log, and from there take action. Help keep your fellow knights safe!

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 13:29

Skayeth

@GMs

Hmm...Something offensive..... Maybe Xtweeterx, Sirius-Voltbreaker and me? Nah. It's that monster cage that spawns vile creatures in SK. I hate shocking chromas.

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 14:49

#10

Xtweeterx

Harassment would be "DO NOT"

Harassment would be "DO NOT" #1 on the forum rules which would be personal attacks to make someone mad, to make them look bad, etc.

As for offensive, what do you mean? Do you mean offensive with the same meaning as harassment? Or do you mean offensive chat (i.e: cuss words)?
Because there's a list of filtered cuss words on the Wiki, and there's a thing on the "DO NOT" section on the forum rules that says "If a swear word is filtered in-game Spiral Knights, do not use it on the forums.

I can go get the wiki page link if you want.

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 14:56

#11

Skyguarder

Being offensive mostly involves harassment with one another. That includes making fun of someone, putting someone down, using the F-bomb against each other, etc.

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 15:16

#12

Offense-Armor

Well apparently some level of "competitive smack talk and chest-thumping" is fine. As long as you don't get on a personal level then I think you're fine. If the other person doesn't take offense then I think it's alright as well. It's easy to tell if you're intentionally trying to hurt someone personally or just joking around. My guess is that these [toxic players] fall under the competitive smack talk thing.

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 15:25

#13

Skayeth

@Offense-Armor

Like Terrty? Competitive smack talk?

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 15:35

#14

Skepticraven

ToS Comments on Harassment

"Harassment
Play nice! - There is no place in Spiral Knights for deliberately harassing other knights, either by being offensive, by 'stalking' them, sending repeated requests or chat messages or in any other form."

Also, keep in mind the four main rules in the ToS

Have Fun

Respect your fellow Knights!

Be sensible! (Don't give out your login information)

Keep it clean!

Every time I read the ToS, they have rather loose guidelines. Even in government law, there are no fine lines for where you can draw for where someone goes wrong.

In the end, when we start to wander the blurry line that separates the offensive comments and harassment... you are always better off stopping when someone gives hints that they are offended. If you are unsure, ask. Keep in mind, this advice does not only apply to this game.

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 16:26

#15

Zeddy

Speaking from experience, Three Rings are very proud of their grasp on mathematics and it is an offence to belittle it.

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 16:38

#16

Xtweeterx

@Zeddy

...What?

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 16:55

#17

Draycos

Zeddy got fed up with the dev team and made an angry (but 100% correct) thread a while back.

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 16:58

#18

Xtweeterx

@Draycos

Link please?

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 17:12

#19

Bitsbee

Right here.

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 17:14

#20

Cinoa

Bitsbee, I wish I thought of that.

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 17:20

#21

Zeddy

Oh, it's been quite a while since I've been angry about anything. I'd say the topic was made more in... exasperation, maybe?

Linking to it would do nothing, as a moderator edited it to be a general discussion about balance.

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/91598

The topic was originally in suggestions, and adviced the dev team to hire a person with an understanding of how to balance things.

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 17:38

#22

Draycos

Close enough.

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 23:47

#23

Mayaura

From what I've observed . . .

Offensive chat is basically using banned cuss words. If you do it in the forums which the Game Masters monitor, they’ll warn you first, then temp ban you if it continues. If it happens to you in in-game chat, you have to report it or they won’t know about it to act on it. If it doesn’t include banned cuss words, though, they’ll let an awful lot slide.

Harassment has to happen for quite a while and it’s up to you to report it. If it’s happening in the forums contact support and include the link by clicking on the # of the post and copy+pasting it into your support request. If it happens in in-game chat, you have to report it or they won’t know about it to act on it. And even then, it could go on for a month or two before the Game Masters ban the offender, which is about how long it took me to get a player perma banned (R.I.P Rhip).

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 23:52

#24

Cmeresweetheart

Calling someone a doctor.

Fri, 11/15/2013 - 23:58

#25

Draycos

Mawashimono, I think the point of this thread isn't to discuss how the moderation team is acting right now, since that's been well established. It's more of a collaborated-criticism thread against their "letter of the law" practices as opposed to making exceptions and rational decisions.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 01:24

#26

Ill-Fate-Ill

....

From my experience, people report you for telling them to shuddap their face because they are complaining about combos and hammers in lockdown and calling them noobs.
People should just accept each other's playing styles and stop complaining.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 05:58

#27

Leekcoco

I don't know what's going on with these weird standards either. People are getting banned for swearing, but I've seen much more offensive, disgusting talk happen in game. "Ignore" doesn't do anything, it means you can't see what they're saying but it doesn't punish toxic players. Silence and inaction is indirectly accepting that type of behaviour, and eventually it will become a norm.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 06:56

#28

Whimsicality

There are some things which should be considered outright wrong to say and do, and should be viewed with more immediate priority from the GMs who review the reports. If someone is behaving toxicly via verbal harassment, chances are they probably have already history of doing so.

I've sent in a support ticket, querying the GM's themselves what they do about it.

"We review the chat logs for all complaints which are submitted and take action against anyone we find breaking the rules of the game. Not all actions we take are visible to other players. We use warnings and short suspensions, which you may not notice. If there is someone who is harassing you, I recommend you /ignore the person so you won't see their chat. Please keep sending in complaint when someone is breaking the rules - we do review everything."

"We use warnings and short suspensions, which you may not notice." And here in lies a problem in itself. It's bad enough if someone is harassing you, what if they go off to harass more people? These warnings, most people either do not pay attention to them, or forget all about them. And we, the people sending in reports, have no feedback on our actions. As far as we know, who we're reporting and ignoring may very well be attacking someone else with hateful attacks.

There have been cases of people learning from their mistakes. But these are overwhelmed by the majority of people who continue their volatile actions after being reported. I won't name any names, but I recall a particular instance of reporting someone for harassment, giving them a temporary ban. What does this mean? Either, 1, they've had a history of offenses like this. Or, 2, their offense was so bad, it warranted an immediate ban. Now, weeks pass by, and this person is well aware I'm the one who got them banned. They hate me for it. But what do I notice? They've calmed down a lot more. Their behavior to other people have become a lot less toxic. And that, in all honesty, is what I really wanted. I don't want to play with anyone that's going to bring me, or any of my other fellow players down to their level of anger, just because they can't channel their frustration properly.

But what does this mean? This means that the current reporting system is all over the place. It's vague. We don't know how it works. And, really. It doesn't do its job the way it should. If you're going to be by the letter of the law, then make sure your terms are written precisely so that they are easily understandable and that you have no excuse of breaking them. Or, if you're going to go by the spirit of the law... Actually take every single report as equally as the next, consider the history, the future, and whether the reported player is going to continue being toxic.

Shoot, I wrote out more than I had wanted to.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 08:09

#29

Whimsicality

The links to the images were removed. REMOVED. That is enough proof in itself that the examples I cited were not just 'competitive smacktalk', but bannable offenses of toxic behavior. So why is that person still around, OOO? Where is their warning? Why are they still raging and harassing several hours after countless reports? Hmm?

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 08:17

#30

Skepticraven

Let me guess

Were those screenshots taken from your knights viewpoint?
Do you have your chat filter ingame set to "none"?

Posting the unfiltered words to the forums is against the rules. Seeing the unfiltered words in-game is a choice. There isn't a filter for the forums, with the exception of mods coming in and editing posts.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 20:17

#31

Omnizoa

List of filtered words

http://wiki.spiralknights.com/List_of_known_filtered_words

Thu, 11/28/2013 - 22:39

#32

Glad-Amparus

It's when people whisper you

It's when people whisper you gross things, and mean things over and over again, then spam mail, exceed in trade requests, etc.

Thu, 11/28/2013 - 22:48

#33

Sirius-Voltbreaker

Your Voltedge isn't safe.

I was once sent an angry Letter that consisted of about 9 paragraphs of curse words by a person when I burned him cause he was harrassing someone. Boy did that make my day. Also over the last year, I have been sent several sexual comments like; wanna have se* with me? Or...
"F*** me. NOW. Or... Wanna be the father of my children? So... um... I don't think you have seen harassment.

Thu, 11/28/2013 - 23:25

#34

Hexzyle

Goddess Ilias ain't gonna bless you, boy

Also over the last year, I have been sent several sexual comments like; wanna have se* with me? Or...
"F*** me. NOW. Or... Wanna be the father of my children? So... um... I don't think you have seen harassment.

Oh. Is that harassment? I'll stop if you want me to...

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 01:20

#35

Glad-Amparus

@hexzyle

Lol XD

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 07:44

#36

Sirius-Voltbreaker

Your Voltedge isn't safe.

Eek get away from me Hexyle!

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 09:40

#37

Wowy-Me

huh

for some reason hell isnt considered a swear word in SK

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 02:43

#38

Hellscreams-Forum

@Wowy-me

If hell starts to consider as a swear word, the first thing I'll do is go to your house and scare the pants out of you :P

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 14:11

#39

Whimsicality

Heck, where people go when they don't believe in Gosh.

On a more serious note, should it really be acceptable for players to tell others to commit suicide?

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 17:27

#40

Curious-Mewkat

Blasphemy... hell shall be no vulgar
Telling people to commit suicide is basically threatening a player. What if I said "Go to hell" to you?

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 22:24

#41

Hexzyle

should it really be acceptable for players to tell others to commit suicide?

No, for one that's an offensive comment, equivalant to saying "Go **** yourself", two, it's promoting illegal activity, and three, it's making fun of a disability or mental condition. It's like saying to someone "You're so hopeless you might as well be in a wheelchair" without actually knowing that they're already in a wheelchair.

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 01:15

#42

Fangel

That's a pretty serious threat

Telling someone to go commit suicide should not be overlooked. That could be the last straw that breaks their grasp on reality, and drives them to take their own life. Strangers on the internet can unintentionally save lives, or cause others to take their own. Please, report anyone you see who tells someone to kill themselves. That shouldn't be taken lightly.

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 03:33

#43

Hellscreams-Forum

@Fangel

True True True True True True True True True True True True True True True True True True True True True True True True True True True True Fasle True True Ture True True True True True True True True True True True True True...

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 09:31

#44

Whimsicality

I won't name any names. But I still see the same people who tell others to kill themselves, despite countless reports.

If the community can agree that it's unforgivable and unacceptable... Just how far do they have to go, OOO? Just. How. Far?

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 09:59

#45

Skayeth

Seriously, Luminaria is the City of Light.

This is a very serious topic. Encouraging people to suicide is very bad. It makes possible the plunging of someone into depression. Trust me, you don't want depression. Your life will seem like a waste. There is only 2 things to describe this: This music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2hRTLdvdnk
and this statement: You Only Live Once

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 10:05

#46

Hellscreams-Forum

My point of view...

Encouraging players to die in real life is a really bad idea...Think it my point of view...When a player die from this game, OOO will be sued, Spiral Knights will be remove from the web and eventually parents will restrict us from playing Computer games...

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 10:16

#47

Skayeth

Are you sure there is a alien on my HEAD?!

@Hellscreams: That is the most true statement I ever heard. Good job! The outcome of someone dying from SK is terrible indeed. That is why Nick and the admin league have to ban anyone who is making people kill themselves. Our lives are just too valuable.

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 10:24

#48

Hellscreams-Forum

@ Annilaton

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What does OOO consider offensive and harassment?