Spiral Knights - Bomber Update(CONTAINS CHAOS FIX)

Bomber Update(CONTAINS CHAOS FIX)

23 replies [Last post]

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 08:40

Blitzsonic

All of you have heard about the gunner update that is going to be released soon, gunners had a hard time, but seeing that OOO fixes gunners instead of bombers makes me think that the current bomber sets are "ok" for them, so I thought about some new mechanics and sets.

Demo Sets:
The current demo sets only give elemental defense(did bombs do damage to the player in the past ?), which isn't that useful, so how about more sets:

piercing defense set
gives piercing defense, based on a beast look.
Bonus:
Medium ASI for bombs on both parts
(you will see what asi for bombs is)
Poison resistance

Shadow set
gives shadow defense
low asi and dmg for both parts
curse resistance

Piercing set 2
Gives piercing defense
low asi, low ctr
Resistance to stun

Mechanics:
ASI for bombs
attack speed reduces the time that it takes for bombs to explode.

Placeable Bombs
uncharged bombs can be placed, there is a limit of 3 bombs and you can't charge a bomb if you placed one.

Chaos fix
Chaos gives gun and sword damage/ctr medium on both parts, but NOT for bombs. This makes the mad bomber set useful and also fixes pvp for a bit.

Credit to Shy-User/Polaris for the Chaos fix

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 09:24

Cetren

good idea

Chaos needs to ctr swords only. The gunners update should include. Some car for guns. Be on thinking and posting some new bomb ideas

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 09:21

Waffleconecake

How do I what do? /watch?v=iWOyfLBYtuU

I don't want reduced time for the bombs fuse. That would ruin so much of my play style seeing how I operate on it. Do you even use bombs?
Why would I want curse resistance on my bombing set when only 3 enemies apply curse? I would rather have shock, or stun, or even more shadow defense, or just something else then freaking curse.

Your chaos fix also isn't that good,or original. Making it anti bomb makes it not the chaos set. The only way to balance it is do any of the fallowing if not all:
-change its defense to piercing, because get out if you think it HAS to be elemental just because it is a cloak. The vog cub armor isn't piercing even though it is still a wolver armor.
-give the cloak ctr med & and damage low, while the cowl has ctr low & damage med. This gives it high each with full set instead of vh. Still useful but not brokenly powerful as it is now.
-cut all defensive stats in half, it is meant to be a glass cannon set and with how bad the defense system is in this game still works fine.
-make it even more prone to statuses as well as stun & curse.

but even with these we still have another issue to deal with. The black kat cowl. It is already very strong with very little draw backs. It also defends against the arguably two strongest monster families, undead & devilites, but lets avoid that argument. So why not nerf it a tad too?
-half it's defense stats. Still pretty strong defensively because again, the defense system in this game is broken so the reduction doesn't really matter.
-more prone to all statuses, and neutral to freeze. I don't care if it is the mobile kat hat, it shouldn't be able to defend well against anything and by it having freeze resistance it goes against being an actual glass cannon.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 09:42

Cetren

-1 for wafflecoonecake

The whole point of that mask is that it is extremely hard to get without determination and 3 hour grinding time

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 10:07

Blitzsonic

@Waffleconecake

Almost some shadow sets have curse resistance, and we already used all status effects on the other bomb sets, bombastic has ice,volcanic has fire,piercing 1 has poison,piercing 2 has stun,mercurical has shock, and shadow has curse, it would also be good for darkfire vana.The main problem of chaos vs mad bomber is that mad bomber is only for bombs, and chaos for everything, so this fixes it. Chaos isn't meant to be a glass cannon set, it gives some of the worst debuffs for even longer and some of the best damage bonuses for that instead. If you really want a glass cannon set, then ask OOO for a CTR/ASI/DMG MAX set that gives almost nothing and MAX weakness against all status effects, but don't change chaos. The defense system still works in this game, have you ever tried other defense ? Sure, normal defense needs a buff, but specialized defense reduces the damage by a bit, halving defense wouldn't be a good idea. Black kat gives high fire weakness(looks like medium, but it's high) and high weakness against other things too, it's also very rare, so high reward for that. Making chaos a piercing defense armor would make it even worth more for bombers since they don't have a piercing set.

Mon, 11/18/2013 - 17:55

Cetren

This is my idea

New weapons:
Flare, 2 star, a small bomb based like a yellow bomb. When it detonates it calls down 2 missiles like that bomb thing. Fair chance of causing strong fire. Deals normal dmg.
Light Flare 3 star, A bomb like the flare but with more dmg. and missiles
Bright Flare, 4 star same as light lare but more dmg. and missiles
Blinding Flare, 5 star same as bright flare but more dmg and missiles

Flare, (Same as above)
Dim flare, same as light flare but fair chance of causing strong poison.
Flickering Flare, same as Dim flare but more dmg. and missiles
Dying Flare, same as flickering flare but more dmg. and missiles.

Notes: Dim flare recipes are krogmo coin rewards.

Kim: 3 star A bomb like dark retribution but does elemental and causes shock.
Kimm: 4 star Same but more orbs and dmg.
Kimmy: 5 star Same but more orbs and dmg.

Notes: Description: A bomb like the Dark Retribuation, but it was modified by a blacksmith stranger who named it "Kim"

This is a new sword but its based off bombs:

Caliber: (Not new)
Trapped Caliber 3 star: Same as caliber but the little blue dot is red and charge attack is that of a bomb mecha knight
Dangerous caliber 4 star, same as trapped but more dmg. and bombs from charge
Rigged caliber 5 star: Same as dangerous caliber but more dmg and bombs from charge

Notes: 3 star does 2 bombs 4 star does 3 and 5 star does 4

Spike 2 star shoots up spikes like slime but many more. Deals piercing dmg.
Spikes 3 star: Same but more dmg and spikes
Spikey 4 star Same but more dmg and spikes
Spikeys 5 star: Same but more dmg and spikes

Spike (Same)
Cold Spike: 3 star Same as spike but has a fair chance of causing strong freeze and more dmg.
Chilly Spike 4 star, Same as cold spike but more dmg and spikes.
Ice Spikes 5 star, same as Chilly spike but more dmg and spikes

Notes: Cold spike recipes are only found at basil in clockwork terminals.

New Armor/Miscellaneous:

Carrier: 2 star Helm/Suit: Resist pierce/normal and gives these Bonuses: Bomb ctr low and Bomb DI low

Courier: 3 star Helm/Suit: Same except gives these bonuses: Bomb CTR low and bomb DI med and def. increase

Dropper: 4 star: Helm/Suit: Same except gives these bonuses: Bomb CTR med and Bomb DI high

Notes: Has 2 five star options:

Option 1:
Super Dropper: Resist Normal/Piercing and gives bonuses: Bomb CTR high and Bomb DI high

Super Courier: Resist Normal/elemental and gives these bonuses: Bomb CTR low Bomb DI low MSI low.

New trinkets: Crafted at krogmo alchemy machine. Does not increase detonation time

Big Bomb: Increases bomb range: Low
Huge Bomb: Increases bomb range: Med

Mon, 11/18/2013 - 17:56

Cetren

Took me all day to think of

Took me all day to think of ;)

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:51

Blitzsonic

@Cetren

Please don't post your suggestions for new weapons in my topic here, create a new topic for that.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:57

Terra-Necro

Eh...

Personally, I think the only way to balance out mad bomber vs. chaos is to give mad bomber some asi increase for bombs. It helps especially if you use Nitronome. Chaos was meant to be the jack of all trades, and there isn't a big enough reason to remove its uses across all three weapon categories.

Fri, 11/22/2013 - 05:08

Masterreeve

I make you black, bluue and red all over

Terra, asi is useless on bombs... kinda the reason no other bomber armor has had it yet.

Fri, 11/22/2013 - 05:15

#10

Mushy-Bucket

---

You have any idea what a ASI max, CTR max, and DMG max nitronome would look like with ASI added? Lockdown would be screwed by an impenetrable wall of bomb explosions.

Short and sweet: Bombs' fuses doen't need to be shortened

Fri, 11/22/2013 - 06:29

#11

Thunder-The-Bright

gods ain't gonna help you, son.

asi already shortens the time you need to raise the bomb over your head and the time you use to put it down. it's bomb's equivalent to shield canceling.
then yes, bomb fuses must stay as they are. idk, maybe asi on bombs could go with MSI while charging, so that some bombs (coughvortexcoughBABcough) could take a major boost.
as for chaos, remove the specialized defense. simple as that, it could be good for me. it's an offensive set right?

Fri, 11/22/2013 - 13:52

#12

Masterreeve

I make you black, bluue and red all over

Chaos is part of the Elemental set, so it needs elemental defense. Taking that away would deny what it truly is.

Fri, 11/22/2013 - 14:00

#13

Thunder-The-Bright

gods ain't gonna help you, son.

what it truly is? may I remember you vog set and salamander set?
besides, what is chaos for you? chaos is an ofensive set of armor to me. to you is a part of an elemental defense set, but you don't wear it because of that, right?

Fri, 11/22/2013 - 14:06

#14

Blitzsonic

Bombers need some kind of asi

Bombers need some kind of asi or normal placeable bombs to destroy blocks and interact with switches. Removing Chaos's defense wouldn't work, the problem is that it outclasses mad bomber in almost every part exept of the crafting line.

Fri, 11/22/2013 - 14:10

#15

Masterreeve

I make you black, bluue and red all over

Chaos is part of the elemental line, it even says so in HoH. Much like Jelly for pierce and Skelly for shadow, the main reason for the line is the defense. Divine and Chaos just got variations to add a few more armors to the game, but it's essentially still an elemental set.
Vog and Salamander, and all of their variants have other purposes besides their defense, so I don't wear them for it. Truthfully, I don't wear Chaos either because its too powerful and takes most of the fun out of the game. I wear Grey Feather for elemental defense.

Fri, 11/22/2013 - 15:35

#16

Thunder-The-Bright

gods ain't gonna help you, son.

the main reason for the line is the defense

I don't wear Chaos either because its too powerful

see the contradiction?

Fri, 11/22/2013 - 16:47

#17

Masterreeve

I make you black, bluue and red all over

Chaos was fine as it was before it got the buff; I actually used it back then. But i dont think taking it's defense away and essentially changing it into a different armor would solve the power problem.

Sat, 11/23/2013 - 01:02

#18

Blitzsonic

Chaos already has less normal

Chaos already has less normal AND elemental defense than other sets, i guess that adds up to 1 hit less to kill the player.

Sat, 11/23/2013 - 01:46

#19

Zeddy

@Chaos

Chaos has just as much normal defence as Gray Feather and just as much elemental defence as Vog Cub.

It is a difference of 17 damage, less than half a pip, on depth 25 compared to Vog Cub.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 11:16

#20

Shamanalah

my 2 cents

See this is a Thread about Balancing item

It has nothing to do with Gremlin Demo mechanics being transfered to Knights...

I'm just replying to Blitzsonic who posted on my Thread so I'm doing advertizement too...

ADVERTIZEMENT!!!

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 10:34

#21

Blitzsonic

@Zeddy

The owlite line is the elemental defense line, so there is more elemental than normal defense. Chaos has even less elemental defense, so the damage will be noticeable. There isn't a chaos alternate, so you will be weak in some levels(it's elemental because most of the mobs did elemental in the old sk).

@Sharmanala
You were talking about adding this mechanic for all bombs, adding asi and bombs with less range would allow bombers to break obstacles like boxes and not wait ages for them to break, so my mechanic would work better. Your mechanic might be a good idea for the heavy deconstructor, maybe the charge could have the bomb throw.

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 10:56

#22

Thunder-The-Bright

gods ain't gonna help you, son.

blitz, that does not balance out chaos with, say, vog. according to you: 17 damage reduction+ sword asi med = universal damage and CTR med. tell me the logic.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 11:45

#23

Blitzsonic

@Thunder

I'm balancing chaos to mad bomber, so mad bomber is actually useful.

I never wanted to add other bonuses to chaos, I only wanted to remove the ctr/dmg for bombs and maybe add stun/sleep weakness.

What if the asi for bombs would only work on the uncharged placed ones, would that fix the ld problem by a bit ?

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Bomber Update(CONTAINS CHAOS FIX)