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Non-skill factor limiting shield cancel rate?

6 replies [Last post]
Tue, 11/19/2013 - 18:00
Deleted-Knight's picture
Deleted-Knight

This may become spam/rage thread, but I'm wondering about the collective LD experience in contrast to my personal ones.

I know perfecting shield cancel involves timing and skill.

However, when I'm spectating matches, it seems like some people are able to consistently shield cancel faster with no ASI than other people who have significant ASI (using the same weapon ofc).
For example, some people are capable of dual-switching flourishes at an astounding rate, even without ASI. The sword blade doesn't even fully extend before it is retracted and the next swing executes. However, other people who are equally skilled at shield canceling cannot seem to go as fast.
I've tested this difference in Lockdown matches I am part of. When I try it (alone as practice) with asi low on both picks, starting at slow speeds and gradually getting faster, the game eventually forces me to combo at a certain frequency. However, in the same game, someone else with non-ASI picks can surpass my limit frequency.

Is there a physical limit (independent of skill) that affects how fast someone can perform consecutive attacks?
It doesn't make sense for latency, since that should create an overall delay instead of a delay between consecutive actions.

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 18:39
#1
Aus-Lagger's picture
Aus-Lagger
Latency/Lag /thread

Latency/Lag

/thread

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 18:56
#2
Klipik-Forum's picture
Klipik-Forum
hmmm

If not Latency, then maybe FPS? It might also be lag on your end not theirs, causing their actions to update at inconsistent rates and making it seem like it's faster than you.

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 21:19
#3
Leekcoco's picture
Leekcoco

Feels like lag to me. I end up comboing by accident at random times when my cancelling rhythm has been close to the same.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 08:11
#4
Momofuku's picture
Momofuku

This is because Spiral Knights uses UDP instead of TCP for their netcode.

In short, TCP places more emphasis on order of packets received and integrity of data sent/received, whereas UDP is faster but order of packets sent/received is not guaranteed and there is no error checking, meaning packets may be lost.

Thus, yes, it is a delay regarding packets being sent and received, and since a lot are being thrown at once from other players connections to the server and then to your own connection, this does result in your shots exploding on a player and dealing no damage or getting hit at an abnormally wide range. It can also affect your timing for shield canceling/weapon switching if a lot is happening at once.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 16:59
#5
Deleted-Knight's picture
Deleted-Knight
Wow thanks Momofuku

It all makes sense now! UDP seems to favor those with a stable connection and put those with unstable connections at more of a disadvantage (due to ordering issues). The actual latency isn't as important as how consistent it is.
I actually made a suggestion that essentially advocated for switching to TCP but I didn't know the technical jargon for it...
Do you know if they ever tried TCP? How do the devs know it won't work as well?

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 17:59
#6
Sconesy's picture
Sconesy

If I remember correctly TCP does not handle packet transfer as quickly as UDP does. This is basically because TCP places an emphasis on guaranteeing the payload is delivered and checking to make sure the data is in the right order. UDP is only concerned with speed. More (basic) information on the differences between TCP and UDP protocols here.

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