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Update for the Gunner, will it make the game funner?

40 replies [Last post]
Wed, 11/20/2013 - 02:01
Reginaldkirby's picture
Reginaldkirby

The Gunner updates coming out soon,
But do we need it? I don't thing we do.
New guns will be cool but why new weps?
The old ones are still an unbalanced mess

Polaris is cheap, Antiguas are weak
Everything else is too mundane to speak
End game players have nothing to do
Ask any one and you'll see its true

Content and balance is the name of the game
Old users get hurt and I feel their pain
Buildin up while old stuff stays the same
Swords will still be the weapons most main.

Edit: Please post discussion in an existing thread rather than starting a new one. Thanks!

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 02:15
#1
Scamall's picture
Scamall
Writer's Block

What are the Polaris and Antigua? What is getting updated soon?

Guns, and guns. I imagine that SOMEHOW, they fall into the same category, and MAY be patched. Do you really think all the new update is going to do is add guns, and not fix the ones that are already there? I'm pretty sure OOO has been planning this for awhile. If you were talking about swords, I would probably have just passed by this post and not pointed out this blatantly obvious flaw in your logic.

Now I'm just trying to dial back the vitriol in my post. I got almost all of it.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 02:25
#2
Reginaldkirby's picture
Reginaldkirby

If they had fixes why wait so long?
There wont be any, you'll see I'm not wrong

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 03:00
#3
Alphacommando's picture
Alphacommando
Because it's a gunner update.

Because it's a gunner update. It's cleaner to round out the gun lines and balance them at the same time, even if it's a bit late.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 05:06
#4
Whimsicality's picture
Whimsicality
"Funner". . .

Keep in mind, OOO's idea of balance consists of an Acheron having higher base damage than a Leviathan against a neutral target when it should be the other way around, Sealed Sword line being faster than the Troika line when it should be the other way around, and popular offensive sets having no innate weakness or too high defensive resistances (read: Wolver line, Shadowsun, Chaos, etc)

We're just sitting here with our fingers crossed that OOO has listened to the cries for balance (so everyone can just shut up already).

In the mean time, keep locking in Blue Card, Reginald.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 07:24
#5
King-Of-Echoes's picture
King-Of-Echoes
@Reginaldkirby

You sure like to rhyme..

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 07:54
#6
Skepticraven's picture
Skepticraven
@Reginaldkirby

But do we need it? I don't thing we do.

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 08:36
#7
Narfle's picture
Narfle

Will an update for gunners make the game funner?
An excellent suggestion, to explore this question.
My personal opinion, I do believe, is an update for gunners is ill-conceived.
Gunners are viable, already were, so the need for this update is just to make sure?
Rather than guns, which do plenty of stuff, the real need is for bombs, which don't do enough.
Were SK to put out an update for bombs, I would cling to Three Rings like babes to their moms.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 09:34
#8
Magnum-Frost's picture
Magnum-Frost
-Generic Subject Line-

*more fun

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 10:56
#9
Traevelliath's picture
Traevelliath

How does balancing weapons add more content to late game players than adding more content?

Just because a weapon is worse than another weapon doesn't mean said weapon is unusable. Nothing stops you from making a Leviathan or a Sudaraska, instead of a Combuster or Acheron. Egad! It's not optimal! Then shove your sorry bum into another suit if Chaos and autonomously charge spam your weapons. While you're at it, oil your wrist joints, recharge your batteries, and recalibrate your sensors because clearly you are just another robot playing for the sake of winning rather than having fun.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 13:43
#10
Pepperonius's picture
Pepperonius
+1 to Narfle

I'd love a Bomb update, with a couple new bombs. Give us elemental/shadow versions of the nitronome (we have a pierce type with the DBB, minus KB), rework shard bombs so there is no hit cap on them. THey could also use a lovely damage buff.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 14:19
#11
Reginaldkirby's picture
Reginaldkirby

The point of this seems to be missed
Adding new weapons is hardly a fix
Guns are the middle of the weapons uses
Swords are at the top, while bombs are near-useless

I'm not trying to say that balance will cure all
but you must walk before you run or you'll be sure to fall
Adding 30 guns and fix the rest?
Swords are too strong, they should do less

Try takin a poison bomb to firestom cit
If you arnt solo, youll likely be kicked
I do like most weapons, I even use cata
but between new ones or fixes, I'd choose the latter

And as for the content, Levels we need
Why get new weapons? They will barely change anything
The new boss and new levels will be perfect to the letter
We just need new end-game, the more the better.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 14:26
#12
Bitsbee's picture
Bitsbee

"...bombs are near-useless"

...

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 14:38
#13
Thunder-The-Bright's picture
Thunder-The-Bright
gods ain't gonna help you, son.

oh bitsbee, you changed avatar.
and btw, reginald, you never seen a video from shard squad. bombs are viable, they are just a bit tricky to use well.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 14:50
#14
Scamall's picture
Scamall
Writer's Block

You complained about unbalanced guns. Now, you're saying that they shouldn't be fixed, we shouldn't get new content, and that swords, the most used weapon class in a game with active players numbering in the tens of thousands, should be nerfed. If OOO do that, the backlash would be horrendous. They're only stronger because they're the brute force weapon class. Get in close to danger, strike, use shield. Every weapon class is suited to a different playstyle.

And while I support the "more levels" idea, this will tide players over for a month tops, before people figure out all the tips and tricks for maximising profit and get tired of the new levels before they start clamouring for even more. And complaining about the same stuff they always did.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 15:38
#15
Traevelliath's picture
Traevelliath

I'm going to bring up Danger Missions and Lockdown again...

Danger Missions were SPECTACULAR. They were very well made and people loved them! One problem though: Development Time. Each Danger Mission took about a full month to make. Most players got bored of them after 2 to 3 runs. The only reason they are more interesting then the usual level now is because their availability is limited. Yes we want new levels, but they are so inefficient in terms of development time vs playing time.

Lets look at that mess known as Lockdown. There are people who've played lockdown for hundreds of hours. However... why don't you hear complaints about the Lockdown level variety? There are less lockdown levels than clockwork levels, yet people don't mind at all. While new levels are nice, it's not the level itself that makes people keep playing. It's the experience. Each Lockdown experience is made by the players involved, rather than the level. That's why you hear complaints about equipment being imbalanced and cries for larger weapon diversity in games (Or they're raging at certain individuals in Lockdown, if not groups of individuals).

New weaponry creates new playstyles and new methods of playing the same content. Weapon balance only really matters in PvP, IMO. Even the weapons people scoff at are still perfectly usable and are quite enjoyable to use. Take a Winmillion out for a spin, or swing around a Sudaraska. It's a different experience than charge spamming your Brandishes in full Chaos.

There are dozens of methods of extending playtime. Balance, while nice, only affects people devoted to optimization and PvPers.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 15:43
#16
Draycos's picture
Draycos

I don't think you should write off PvE balance as "less important" so quickly. A lot of people, like me, love using complex strategies instead of straightforward ones.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 15:51
#17
Fauxhownd's picture
Fauxhownd
Just please tell me that

Just please tell me that Blackhawk is going to get fixed with the update (meaning correct range).

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 16:06
#18
Reginaldkirby's picture
Reginaldkirby

The games too easy as it stands
Swords are so broken that you dont need a plan.
Fiends are the only real threat right now
Take a faust/avenger to anything else and pow

And look at the compounds, a shining star
Add more like that to raise bar
New weapons would change things up
But old problems will still be there, its not enough

Lockdowns so unfair I almost cant joke
Trinkets and polairs make it a total choke.
Anything less then perfect gears not enough
else the only way to win is lots of luck

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 16:11
#19
Parasthesia's picture
Parasthesia
I think the addition of new

I think the addition of new guns is very good for PvP, because the addition of so much effective variety will render the two previous cookie-cutter EFFECTIVE AGAINST EVERYTHING sets less effective.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 16:28
#20
Whimsicality's picture
Whimsicality
Mimimimiiiii... I am the grrrreat mighty poo...

If your problem is with your foes
Mayhap the solution lies not with your tools
The key is changing how you strategize to dispose
As it stands, all enemies are but fools

Make them much smarter
So they may prove their worthy
Instead of hitting much harder
Which I admit is silly

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 18:08
#21
Traevelliath's picture
Traevelliath

"I don't think you should write off PvE balance as "less important" so quickly. A lot of people, like me, love using complex strategies instead of straightforward ones."

Do your complex strategies work? Are they fun to use? Then, even with the poor balance, there is still fun to be had. One of my most memorable runs was a RJP run with all 4 of us using only Catalyzers.

This thread is about fun, or am I mistaken? The only time a balanced situation is more fun than an imbalanced situation is PvP, and even then you can debate "Perfect Imbalance" (Which SK hasn't pulled off yet). As long as every weapon works, there's no reason to throw it away because it's not as good as another. If you MUST perfectly optimize yourself to have fun, then don't complain about lack of options when you yourself are shutting down the majority of them.

"Game's too easy"
This argument really bugs me.

First of all, easy doesn't mean it's no longer fun. It's not like fun and easy are mutually exclusive. There are areas of the game that still pose a challenge and nothing stops you from visiting them, if you MUST take on a challenge.

Second of all, please PLEASE don't lament how "easy" the game is when you're able to run FSC with full Chaos, half blind, while eating a sandwich. That is an example of player skill. Easy for you doesn't mean the game is easy. Easy for you doesn't mean the game needs to be changed to fit your needs.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 19:26
#22
Reginaldkirby's picture
Reginaldkirby

Traeve, you dont get it, its plain to see
the hardest difficulties too easy for me
I dont play often but when i do
I can take any weapon and easily make it through

Balance is important, but not for why you said
Its to provide equality, not put it to bed
If theres no challenge is a game still fun?
Why have more weapons if you'll only use some?

Its not rocket science, its really quite simple
more variety will appear if the weapons are all equal

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 19:53
#23
Traevelliath's picture
Traevelliath

"the hardest difficulties too easy for me. I dont play often but when i do, I can take any weapon and easily make it through"

I thought I directly addressed this point in my last post. Easy for you does not mean it's too easy and needs to be changed. Veterans seem to forget how hard Tier 3 actually is. One swipe with improper armor is 1/3 of your health, with enemies being fast and aggressive.

"Why have more weapons if you'll only use some?"

And what stops you from using them all? Seriously, what is stopping you? Apparently you like a challenge as well, thus using some lesser weapons would be more fun. Unless I'm misinterpreting what you're saying because limericks, while fancy, do obscure your words.

"Its not rocket science, its really quite simple, more variety will appear if the weapons are all equal"

How does balancing weapons make more weapons appear than ADDING WEAPONS. The Sudaraska still exists! I have a Triglav sitting in my inventory. I can make it appear on command. I'll even take it through a Shadow Lair. It would be a challenge... OH WAIT!

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 20:41
#24
Reginaldkirby's picture
Reginaldkirby

The weapons stigma is what you see
Strong ones get used more - elementary
Weak lines like spur or flambridge are there
but they're forsaken for better equipment, its fair

Would you run through a vana with piercing bombs?
You could, but its not so much a challenge as it is just long
Why should top players have to use weaker gear?
The challenge should be there regardless of what we wear

Why not bring all weapons into line?
if they're good in their own way, it would all be fine
But when some weapons have an advantage thats obviously clear
the unique ones suffer, its as if they arn't even here.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 21:50
#25
Zeddy's picture
Zeddy
@Reginaldkirby

"Try takin a poison bomb to firestom cit
If you arnt solo, youll likely be kicked"

And rightly so! Everything in Firestorm Citadel is highly resistant to poison. It'd be like bringing Gran Faust there.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 22:59
#26
Traevelliath's picture
Traevelliath

"But when some weapons have an advantage thats obviously clear, the unique ones suffer, its as if they arn't even here."

I feel like I'm a broken record here...

The only thing preventing you from swinging a Sudaraska with perfectly acceptable results is you yourself. You can debate the community too contributes to this problem. People really downplay how effective certain weapons are. Anything that isn't a Brandish is just scoffed at.

Alright, so bringing piercing bombs into FSC may not be the most viable. However, what about the Deadly Crystal Bomb? Running through FSC with a Combuster is a completely different experience than running with some Shard Bombs. Oh, but that's not optimal is it? Thus it's completely worthless! Right? It'd be silly to try anything other than a Brandish!

Also, I'm surprised Zeddy didn't link his Shard Bomb only Vana fight. Oh but clearly it isn't as effective as the traditional Blitz spamming so why bother?

"Why should top players have to use weaker gear?"

I'm not saying you use weaker gear, I'm saying you use gear that you haven't ever tried before. There are dozens of different playstyles that come from different pieces of equipment. Admittedly yes, they are technically not "optimal" compared to the traditional Brandish charge spam in Chaos. However, that doesn't mean they aren't viable. It's not about running through the RJP with a Flourish. It's about running through the RJP with a Biohazard.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 00:24
#27
Zeddy's picture
Zeddy
@Traevelliath

I could link my Shard Bomb only Vana fight, but Theirillusion beat Vana in half that time using Dark Retribution and Acheron so not sure what it'd prove.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 00:39
#28
Reginaldkirby's picture
Reginaldkirby

You seem to assume that I'm new to this game
I've been here years, and its almost exactly the same
You're on the same side of the argument as me
but your too blinded by hate to clearly see

Bioharzad is great, my fav wep by far
but with umbra and gf, its too high a bar
Of course I still take it, it wont stop me
New players, however, would have my pity

They only care about getting the best gear
A million brandishes is what I fear
The balance is for their sake, not mine
Its starting to get really hard to rhyme

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 08:43
#29
Eric-Rokai's picture
Eric-Rokai
Reginald pls

Let me have my new guns

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:49
#30
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

I'd rather see new ways to use the strategies that I've been recently gifted with than more handguns to utilize. I kind of feel that handguns are the strongest weapon of the three major ones as well, as they typically have the highest damage per health ratio meaning that I can deal a lot of damage while avoiding a lot of damage. Balance would be nice, but its really only a handful of strangely terrible/overpowered items that need it.

Fri, 11/22/2013 - 09:42
#31
Doctorspacebar's picture
Doctorspacebar
It's a Concrete Jungle out there

Here is a good time for comparing some things,
involving a Cave and a Story with King,
so the kind of balance that we might achieve
would not cause us all to deep inwardly seethe.

You see, the main guy could get one of three guns,
Depending on choices made during his quest.
A quick trade with miss Brace would net the Machine Gun,
while the Snake could be got in the big roaches' nest.

Now, spoiler alert, but if you kept the Star
of Polaris that you pilfered at the start,
you could later return to the Hermit Gunsmith
who would make you a Spur to blast that Doctor with.

The Machine Gun could let you soar into the sky
while the Snake went through walls to where monsters did hide.
When it came to the stages they both were quite 1337,
but at boss fights Spur's charge laser couldn't be beat.

Each of these weapons was better or worse
at handling dangers the Doctor dispersed.
But viable all three of these weapons were;
All three could take down that nasty Doctor.

This balance is just what Cradle might well need.
Some weapons be good where the others are weak.
Stuff like Levi can keep you quite well prepped,
but even then you should need to watch your step.

And nonviable gear, like the Deconstructor,
which has no benefits to even the score-
this gear needs a reason to use it instead
of constant Brandish Spam 'til everything's dead.

Think up every aspect of each piece of gear-
armor, shields, and weapons, and Battle Sprites dear-
and make some monster weak to each item's quirks,
while covering bases on all of the works.

As for blatantly overpowered gear like that
Acheron, which is all you need to make Slimes splat-
They need a nerf that quite soon should be had,
but don't overdo it and make them just bad.

Give everything a purpose, a first step that is.
Then experimentation will be quite fun, fo'shizz.
People trying the Spur would not be disappoint,
And that would be one of the game's selling points.

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 14:31
#32
Epic-Samurot's picture
Epic-Samurot
"Funner" is not a word.

"Funner" is not a word.

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 14:43
#33
Rezzler's picture
Rezzler
I like how the OP is making a

I like how the OP is making a pretty good set of rap posts, and the forum dderps are answering it like it is normal :p Reginald ftw

Also, The gunner update wont make the game funner.

Why? Cause its OOO. <- reason for everything

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 15:46
#34
Canine-Vladmir's picture
Canine-Vladmir
/cheers

This Reg-guy is pretty good. Do me next Do me Next!
..um...Remember that update where they moved Stun Resist out of many armor sets, including my Claoks? Where there any other fixes with it? I remember that update vaguely but it has to be one of my fav fixes in the game. (Back when I fought the Vana King in 4*, them good 'ole days)
[that 2011-ish/2012-ish update would prove that OOO can do some good game changes.]

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 16:21
#35
Aplauses's picture
Aplauses

There will be some huge balancing. It is GUNNER update after all

oh nvm it is OOO.

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 17:40
#36
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

Woah woah woah woah

Isn't this a repeat of a topic? Why aren't the GMs graveyarding this one like the others?

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 17:53
#37
Glad-Amparus's picture
Glad-Amparus
I agree with Fezz. Graveyard

I agree with Fezz.

Graveyard this thread, Eurydice...

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 18:02
#38
Midnight-Dj's picture
Midnight-Dj
Some nice poems you got there

Here is a crappy poem I made,

The unenlighted gamers
You cannot make the judgement call
give up your freewill forver
your suggestions won't be heard at all

Display you paypal
While never speak for more rads(radiants)
And blindly play your lairs
Let your MMO control your mind
Let your MMO control your soul

Live in ignorance and purchase your prize boxes
When the money and cash are the real cause
Thinking ceases and the truth is lost

Don't you worry
You will be told exactly what to grind
I give my players the promos they need
The righteous shall succeed

The fire of greed will burn the F2P
So I will make mist tanks obsolete
Breaking the down the fabrics of reality
Let the gunner update control what you see

Let your MMO control your soul
Let your MMO control your mind
Let your MMO control your soul
Let your MMO control your minnnnnnnnnddddddddd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 12:58
#39
Shidara's picture
Shidara
Your limerick is in another castle.

Yeah, I'd welcome a balancing sweep anytime, but if that's all they worked on we wouldn't see another update for quite some time. Now, what better way to make us forget the wait than to hand us more updates? It'll keep us pre-occupied for a bit while they work on fixing things behind the scenes. Makes sense, no? So chill out and embrace it, rather than requesting they drop everything they're doing to rebalance some items. I would honestly much rather see more content than for them to neglect updating entirely for the sake of balancing. Game ain't broke yet.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 13:51
#40
Arcknightdelta's picture
Arcknightdelta
I'm always up for fresh new

I'm always up for fresh new content that improves the core gameplay of any game. TBH as a pure gunner I'm on the fence about this one. Full Chaos set does the job nicely. I get max everything. So why would I need anything else? Personally I'll probably end up using it as costume if the gunner gear looks cool. I hope 000 don't mess around with the chaos set, but I won't be surprised or mad if they did. 24 new guns sound awesome. But then again probably 50% of them will be reskins.That new carbine is basically a sentenza with added poison, I'll carry on using my asi med sentenza, or switch to the umbra if bored. Regardless a reskin of a valiance or a nova driver would be most welcoming. Here's also hoping we get a sort of crossbow gun hybrid. Single shot heavy damage long range gun with an awesome sound effect.

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