Spiral Knights - Bomber suggestion (not a balance thread)

Bomber suggestion (not a balance thread)

12 replies [Last post]

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 09:23

Shamanalah

Hi, long time bomber (whoever that played with me in ye olde days know I like to do T3 arenas in full bomber)

And I thought about this mechanic that would change the way we see Bomber and hybrid. The first time I saw a Gremlin Demo I wanted to lob bombs at people face... The mechanic is already there about lobbing mines, the same mechanics could be applied to our Knights.

Have a fix distance where our knights can lob little version of bombs we have equipped at the moment... like 3-4 blocks in front of us and that we have a maximum of 4 (or 5 or 6, maybe need some in-game testing for feedback) mini bombs until we have to wait for the last lobbed bomb to explode.

I can see a problem already!

So do I... switching and lobbing bombs then switching to lob more. Here are 2 suggestions to fix said problem:

1) Have Bomb Throw UV (Bomb ASI)

2) Have an animation to delay a bomb throw (like 1.5 sec or 2 per throw)

Let's move on...

So you have your 4 lobbed mines in front of you but you still want to attack, charge your bomb, have the normal blast of your bomb like your normally do while your mini bombs explode... timing could be easier and comboing multiple bombs for maximum dmg would be easier.

Not just for dmg output!

Right now bomber is the slowest class to take minerals, break treasures... and activate switch, timing is so crucial with it that very few can do FSC in full bomber... Having mini bombs would allow us to throw bombs so we can compete with swords and gunners out there (at least a little) with 4 consecutive hits with mini bombs.

With the fix distance lob you can easily throw a bomb at a nearby switch or next to minerals.

But what about real-life concern... DPS, HOW MUCH DPS?!?!

Well I didn't though about dps until now, but you could have the 1/5 or 1/4 of a full charged bomb. Some testing should be done because I don't know how good 4 people spamming 1/4 dmg X 4-5-6 mini bombs could do against mobs... Nitronome and Dark Retribution should be tested and a lot of bombs needs some rework as mini...

Elemental bombs don't change much (status should be weaker though) but vortex should have a 2 mobs limit (or 1 trojan), Shards could have 3 other bombs forming a triangle around the mini circle.

Last note: I believe this mechanic could change the way SK works overall and the way we picture bombers. Bombs are the only items that have 1 attack patern, charge it and no "normal" swing attack (single attack that can be repeated) and this mechanic already exist in the game. A lot of people would enjoy it.

This mechanics = no need to work on new bomb, just a new mechanic to make everyone happy. Less work, make the game experience better, gameplay changes, encourage a new style of play.

I can't think of nothing bad about it except Voltaic/vortex spam in LD ^ ^

Edit: ATM I did not modify this original post, I will edit it accordingly tonight or tomorow with updated details. If you want more info, skip my silly debate with Blitzsonic to Masterreeve post.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 09:31

Blitzsonic

I've been working on a topic

I've been working on a topic that adds the old bomb mecahnic back.
http://forums.spiralknights.com/de/node/93103

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 11:13

Shamanalah

my 2 cents

Did you even read my post? Old bomb mechanic back? What is it? When I first started bombing I used Nitronome and Shivermist in July 2011 and it was the same... I'm not doing a balance Thread.

This is a new mechanic Thread, don't advertize your balance Thread in my Mechanic Thread PLEASE. I don't want anything to do with item BALANCE.

Thank you

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 10:34

Blitzsonic

I'm talking about how the

I'm talking about how the very old bombs worked in the beta, back then when going full bomber actually worked. Did you even read my post and think about it ?

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 10:56

Thunder-The-Bright

gods ain't gonna help you, son.

blitz, that is a thing about your topic, not shamanala's. please refer to what he/she said.
so it's not instant placing but like non full charge?
and I don't quite understand how the throw mechanic would work.

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 17:01

Shamanalah

my 2 cents

@ Thunder

It would be instant throw, kinda like autogun work... you would have to stay mobile to lob the bomb for a short amount of time until you can move again.

Kinda like how Jynx lob her little bomber in LoL... (is it E? Don't remember quite well)

You would not place them under you but lob them in front of you... 3-4 blocks away in a straight line

Edit: Yes Blitz I saw your post, you never refered to beta bombing... And a beta mechanics will always be left behind, they are beta mechanics, how Bombing worked n beta, IDK, but I know Zeddy cleared all bosses in full bomber, even in full Shard. So saying it's impossibru now is pointless. Your Thread is about balancing already existant bomb.

My Thread is about balancing Bomber class in the game Spiral Knights and give them new purpose than annoy the crap out of everyone...

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 14:51

Blitzsonic

You know, my topic changes

You know, my topic changes the mechanic about placing bombs, and FIXES the original beta mechanic. It also adds some new things that bombers really need. Bombers need to be able to break blocks fast in some parts, and be able to attack while there is projectile spam. Did zeddy do all bosses with "correct" gear for that time ?

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 06:53

Shamanalah

my 2 cents

What are you refering to? what are the original beta mechanic

it's the 2nd time I asked you... "add some new things that bomber really need" yeah my thread does that too... BY NOT BALANCING BOMBS AND ADDING NEW ONE

wtf is wrong with you... there is no "correct" gear for anything... you play the way you want to, I do FSC in wolver and brandish because it is fun... I feel like a badass killing zombols and trojans with a brandish on elite with a wolver set... is it the correct gear? yes it is!

With my new methods (which address the breaking block prroblems and attack at longer distance) could be better than your idea of making new bombs? you haven't even explain what beta mechanics were, still waiting... here a copy/paste because you are too lazy to even read my own Thread and advertize yours... ignorant kid

Not just for dmg output!

With the fix distance lob you can easily throw a bomb at a nearby switch or next to minerals.

Edit: another copy paste because you can't read....

Edit2: Just noticed your Thread is on the 2nd page now... At least with my method you can lob bombs before being next to them and they would explode as you ran by... ^ ^ so... so my mechanic would work better. Your mechanic might be a good idea for the heavy deconstructor, maybe the charge could have the bomb throw......... nope XD and opinion is not fact...

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 15:25

Masterreeve

I make you black, bluue and red all over

@Blitzsonic & Shamanala
I find it slightly entertaining that you two are arguing over this. It's Sham's thread Blitz, you might as well just give up and focus on your own.

Now for the OP. Correct me if im wrong, but would this make normal attack throw the bomb and charge attacks place it at your feet? Would the initial collision of the bomb deal damage, similar to how when a grem bomber throws a bomb it can stun you? Would the blast radius be smaller or the same with a mini bomb? It seems like a great mechanic but needs just a bit more clarity. I personally think that the bomb radius should be smaller, otherwise there would be no real reason to charge your bomb since you can get the full DPS by just lobbing 4 mini ones. And each bomb should have it's own limit to how many bombs it can lob. i.e BAB and Irontech throw 1-2, nitro can throw 2-3. Mist bombs can throw 3, and vortex bombs can throw 1 (these numbers are purely for example, they are probably not balanced very well).

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 21:26

Shamanalah

my 2 cents

but would this make normal attack throw the bomb and charge attacks place it at your feet?

correct

Would the initial collision of the bomb deal damage, similar to how when a grem bomber throws a bomb it can stun you?

should not happen, too OP... (that's why I didn't mention it)

Would the blast radius be smaller or the same with a mini bomb?

Like the size of demo gremlins roughly (2* bombs)

There is also a shorter delay that I forgot to point out, since they are smaller bombs, shorter fuse would be logical...

And each bomb should have it's own limit to how many bombs it can lob. i.e BAB and Irontech throw 1-2, nitro can throw 2-3. Mist bombs can throw 3, and vortex bombs can throw 1 (these numbers are purely for example, they are probably not balanced very well).

I never really thought about that.... testing would be needed to adjust this. But yeah, maybe have 3 status mini-bombs (shiv/venom/stag), 2 shard bomb and 4 dps bombs (BaB, Irontech, Nitro).

All fuse timer would scale to the bomb... meaning that longer delay bomb will have longer delay as mini...

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 21:40

#10

Gunnerific

@OP

So the lobbed bomb deals no damage on contact, nails you in place for a while(1-2 seconds?), it's radius is downed to 2* (if 5*) which would make 1* bomb's mini be a spec of dust, there's a limit the amount of bombs lobbed, the distance lobbed is 3-4 squares, the damage of the bomb is reduced to 25%.

I know your trying to balance/ make it less Op, but IMO it's kinda Underpowered. Btw it's kinda boring... no variety at all, i mean it's like all sword have the regular 3-swing combo

Maybe make Nitronome have what you said above (or better,IMO), mist have shorter range, larger radius (?) BAB should have a stun on contact and larger range (?) and so on. Variety is lacking in the game, mix it up abit.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 05:22

#11

Shamanalah

my 2 cents

The deal with this is to not make OP attacks but to balance everything out... testing should be done to properly get the delays and timing.

What Master refered to with lobbed bombs hitting is that Demo actually stun you when they throw bombs in your face. While you wouldn't... (I think? anyway I might re-consider the whole thing with the new 3 attack swing, or make 2 suggestion pattern... well see how much ambition I have)

Maybe have 6 bombs and have a shorter delay to lob them? like 0.2 sec? just so that you "skip" to lob one instead of walking normally and lobbing it, I just want a little delay so it's not too OP (then again we could make it that you can lob bombs while moving, we are here to discuss about it ^ ^)

You think it would be better to lob while moving?

The normal swings of any items doesn't deal that much DPS anyway... and with 4 mini-bombs max dmg would still be good, 5 nitros to blow most mobs up in T3 while wearing DMG max... While writting this it occured to me... 1/4 dmg is too low, maybe 1/3? if you can get to kill someone with 15 mini-bombs nitro at a span of 6 lobbed per 3 secs (0.5 sec per lob) you can get consistant dmg

(maybe have 6 bombs instead of 4?)

Well the problem with mist and taic is that they have to cover (roughly) the same area with 4-6 mini bombs, having a bigger radius wouid make the charge almost obsolete...

Needs some balance and testing... but yeah I agree, should have some variety to it (will try to think about it and come back with more info when I get back from work... and that my friend is done checking my car (does not start since yesterday -_-))

Edit: (I'm not here to make totally new bombs, just to refine bomb class by tweaking it a bit, if you have any suggestion about it, feel free to share ^ ^)

Edit 2: Just thought about this: 3 attack pattern, first two swings are lobbed while moving, the third lobbed one = 2 mini-bombs lobbed and a 1 sec delay to throw it (kinda like demo does while throwing 5 bombs at the same time). More DPS though since less bombs and higher radii (maybe 3*?) (more info will be added tonight, this was just a rough briefing, will go in major details and will redo my OP)

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 06:00

#12

Gunnerific

Suggestions!!

Maybe not necessarily Stop movement, but slow it down? like hand-gun's reloads and maybe not (just) swing patterns but abilities to lobs? like knockback, stun (?)

I'm full on with this thread! I too shall brainstorm!

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Bomber suggestion (not a balance thread)