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The Amparus Presents: The Destabilizer (Original Thread)

15 replies [Last post]
Sun, 11/24/2013 - 16:35
Glad-Amparus's picture
Glad-Amparus

This thread is for discussing…

The Destabilizer is a gun that spouts up to three projectiles which then leads to reloading.

The Destabilizer's projectiles travel in a straight-line fashion, with speeds of "No ASI" Polaris' projectiles.

Its projectiles absorb enemies in for a short, brief time. Its suction power is similar to the original vortex bomb's.

The radius of a normal Destabilizer projectile's vortex can be as small as one tile. This is worth discussing, so we can decide on that.

The charge's projectile vortex radius is half as small as that of a vortex bomb's radius upon blast, but it's still brief like the normal attack. The duration for charging your Destabilizer should take as long as charging a Polaris charge attack.

The suction will only occur upon contact with another thing. This includes walls, blocks, enemies... Etc.

The size, colors, frame, damage, status effects, damage types, SFX, and other little details are determined by discussing below or it's up to Three Rings.

Here is a short excerpt from a story I made.
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Player 1 and Player 2 are battling in an arena battle.

Player 2: "Look at my new gun! It's called Destabilizer. It shoots and sucks enemies in."
Player 1: "…"
Player 2: "It's better than your bomb..." Player 2 is shooting retrodes while Player 1 is placing multiple vortices.
Player 2: " Your bomb... Brings enemies in better than my gun... But at least I'm at a safer distance!"
Player 1 ignores Player 2 while placing multiple vortices. Meanwhile, Player 2 is shooting at the enemies that are trapped in Player 1's vortices. They finish the battle and return to Haven.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The moral? Vortex bombs are better at doing what they specialize in, but Destabilizers are good at warding some enemies away while using safe, raw gun power.

When you think about it, the gun isn't overpowered or pointless. It still offers some support to allies while dealing gun damage.

Weakness? Close-range. With that, enemies will stay beside you, and worse, your allies.

Importance scale from 1 - 10? 8.6.
Although it deals a nice "absorption vortex" effect and offers some damage, its Polaris speed brings it not overpowering but not pointless.

Who said we can't take a similar function and make some ideas with it? After all, we are in a gunner crisis. Gunner's have a shallow variety of handguns to choose from. With this, being placed in-game, the vortex bomb and this particular gun type will become more popular.

I need your support. Let's reach 1,000 posts! Strive for saying "+1 to op" or "+1" or something similar to support the Destabilizer. Here's an overall comparison verdict between Vortex bombs and Vortex guns:

Vort. Bomb: Plays better with absorbing enemies, offers way more coverage but lacks in damage.

Vort. Handgun: Plays better with damage, but vortex effect is smaller in radius and brief, and the charge attack vortex is a brief flash as well. You also have the advantage of standing at a farther distance.

In a nutshell, the Destabilizer is like a miniature vortex that disappears in a blink but, altogether, dealing casual handgun damage. This may be the only bomb-like handgun in Spiral Knights, with the exception of Polaris, which acts as a smaller blast bomb.

So, support with something as simple as +1, or go ahead and let's discuss. Remember to keep this a fluid and nice thread. :-)

Tl;dr: A handgun that shoots a projectile/bullet that sucks things upon contact with another thing. The suction lasts very short, but you can shoot up to three consecutive projectile/bullet[s]. The charge is similar but larger suction radius and more damage.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:06
#1
Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle
When you're this swag this world just bows at your knees

the absorbing action is more powerful than of a Vortex bomb's

So more buggy?
Vortex bombs operate by giving all enemies within its radius a set velocity towards the centre. This leads to monsters bouncing around like crazy in the vortex, or if there are multiple enemies, spinning around like a merry-go-round. "Increasing the power" of the vortex simply means increasing the velocity at which monsters are pulled in, causing the monsters inside the vortex to fly around at breakneck speeds and have really buggy hitboxes.

Your AoE descriptions seem ridiculously overpowered for a gun. No other gun has that sort of range, and since the suction effect is more valuable than damage, that's comparable to the charge attack of a Valiance doing a Nitronome-sized blast.
Polaris-sized AoE, if not mini-blast sized, would be far more logical.

Additionally, you haven't specified when the suction effect occurs. If it occurs when the projectile is in mid-flight, It'd basically be a gun with both a trapping effect and huge knockback. If it only occurs when it collides with a player, then you could vortex-trap players by continuously shooting them.

This may be the only bomb-like handgun in Spiral Knights.

Polaris is already a bomb-like handgun due to its crowd control characteristics.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:26
#2
Glad-Amparus's picture
Glad-Amparus
RE: Hexzyle

I appreciate your feedback.

I have adjusted my statement accordingly, thanks to you.

As you can see, I edited the suggestion to improve the Destabilizer. No longer is it horrendously overpowered.

I value more opinions of all of you, so let's keep this going, shall we? :-)

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:37
#3
Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle
When you're this swag this world just bows at your knees

Yeah, now it seems alright. The issue still stands though that you can chain-lock enemies in PvP (doesn't really matter with PvE as many other weapons can do this to a single target) if the suction effect lasts any longer than about 800 milliseconds since that means you can fire slow enough to avoid the reload.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 22:16
#4
Glad-Amparus's picture
Glad-Amparus
RE: Hexzyle

Yay, more helpful feedback!

Maybe discussing bullet amounts, time before emitting another projectile would be a great start to the uprise to a possible future handgun.

I'm starting to think that it should become chain-lock resistant by acting similar to Magnus. Therefore, altering the time before emitting another projectile. (Slower in this case)

In PvP, the most susceptible to the suction would be recons, as they have no other protection.
Strikers can outrun, and guardians have their shield which resists suction force.

But then, Recons do have their cloak to hide themselves and not get chain-locked.

*Feedback would be appreciated*;

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 06:16
#5
Jenovasforumchar's picture
Jenovasforumchar
sounds nice, +1

a gun that sucks an enemy towards you instead of pushing them away? sounds nice,

exspecially to enemies who run away like menders, gremlins or healing fiends.

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 16:11
#6
Glad-Amparus's picture
Glad-Amparus
RE: Jenovasforumchar

Thanks for your support!

I appreciate more feedback from everyone!

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 16:38
#7
Whimsicality's picture
Whimsicality

"A gun that sucks an enemy towards you" is what the Volcanic Pepperbox used to be.

Arguably, it was better that way...

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 17:28
#8
Glad-Amparus's picture
Glad-Amparus
RE: Whimsicality

Not the gun itself, but the ejected projectiles being shot out.

They begin their suction upon contact with something else.

But, a gun that acts as a vacuum... Never thought of that.

More feedback would be appreciated!

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 18:55
#9
Mushy-Bucket's picture
Mushy-Bucket
---

Seems fine. Even in PvP, it's fine. Guardians can protect themselves and strikers can run away. Recons would have some trouble.. but meh.
I would possibly consider a 2-shot clip to attempt to reduce "suction locking" (Think how evil freeze lock is).

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 19:15
#10
Glad-Amparus's picture
Glad-Amparus
RE: Mushy-Bucket

Thanks for posting!

With a two-shot clip, it would be more difficult to chain-lock in PvP, which is good.

Adding on to that, it would be cool to be able to shoot two projectiles quickly, then reloading.

However, with a three-shot clip, it is easier to make some spread across enemies in both PvE and PvP, so I'll stick with three-shot clips.

More feedback would be appreciated. :-)

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 12:51
#11
Fangel's picture
Fangel
This seems interesting

Would it have its own crafting line? Would it be obtainable as a boss token reward? Are there various damage types or statuses it would induce? If so, how often and how strong?

Edit: my memory of the top post faded as I typed this, but if you had to choose a damage or status, which would you consider the most helpful?

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 23:35
#12
Glad-Amparus's picture
Glad-Amparus
RE: Fangel

Thanks for posting Fangel!

This is all worth discussing...

I think it should most certainly have a crafting line.

Maybe they should go elemental/shadow. Destabilizer should stay normal as 2*, then 3* elemental, and as you upgrade, it could stay to a 4* elemental handgun, or it can veer to shadow damage. This could serve similar to the Graviton Vortex and Electron Vortex.

I'll quickly ramble up some names.

Elemental 3*: Glowing Destabilizer
Elemental 4*: Electron Destabilizer (slight chance of shock) [optional]
Shadow 4*: Graviton Destabilizer
Elemental 5*: Electron Storm --------------------------------^
Shadow 5*: Graviton Storm

Boss token reward? Let's give it a try.

Roarmulous Twins token reward
-OR-
New boss release token...

3*, 4*, and 5* destabilizers are made using recipes only.

I'd say... Slight chance of weak shock for the 4* and 5* elemental destabilizers...
More damage to 4* and 5* shadow destabilizers compared to 4* and 5* elemental destabilizers.

More feedback would be appreciated! :-)

Thu, 11/28/2013 - 22:50
#13
Glad-Amparus's picture
Glad-Amparus
Tl;dr has been added! I

Tl;dr has been added!

I guess this is a bump...

Discuss please, information is helpful ATM.

Wed, 12/25/2013 - 10:04
#14
Abelisk's picture
Abelisk
+1

Great idea and concept.

You're right. Implementing types of mechanics is a good idea.
The vortex is good to implement in a gun, but something like a polaris probably wouldn't want to be re-made into a bomb or such.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 15:21
#15
Glad-Amparus's picture
Glad-Amparus
Thank you itsmeandersonlol

Thanks

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