I've seen the new shard bombs and heard how the old ones worked. Sadly I never saw any post that explains why they got changed. So, before creating a new suggestion and a possible fix, I would like to know the "problem" of the original ones.
Shard Bombs
Sun, 12/01/2013 - 07:49
Sun, 12/01/2013 - 08:08
#2
@Dibsville
I know how the new and old ones worked, but i would like to know the reason for this nerf or if it was really needed.
Sun, 12/01/2013 - 08:28
#3
<insert witty comment here>
Because apparently the 8-point spread and long reach made the bombs work more like handguns than real bombs, and it was possible to OHKO enemies that were standing directly over the bomb. It could explain the reasoning behind the hit limit, but it wasn't really necessary seeing as they work completely differently now. All it does is make the new bombs way too weak.
I never used the old Shard bombs but I would have preferred the new ones to be a little less pathetic in terms of damage output.
Sun, 12/01/2013 - 08:36
#4
The logic behind the "they're not bomb-like" argument for changing the Shard Bombs is completely debunked by the fact that Pulsar and Catalyzer are Guns that act like Bombs, Brandishes are swords that act like Bombs, Winmillion is a sword that acts like a Gun, etc.
OOO just wanted to plant the 'No Fun Allowed' signs all over a Bombers' arsenal.
Sun, 12/01/2013 - 08:37
#5
from the horse's mouth
Sun, 12/01/2013 - 08:38
#6
Glad people are still interested in Shard Bombs
^ Gives me hope.
Sun, 12/01/2013 - 09:21
#7
Goddess Ilias ain't gonna bless you, boy
Pulsar and Catalyzer are Guns that act like Bombs
The way Nick says it in the linked post, it looks like this:
Single Target Damage <---------------------------------------------> Area of Effect
GUNS <--(Old Shards)---Spur----Pulsar----SWORDS--------------(New Shards)--> BOMBS
The Old Shards were nothing like what a bomb was supposed to be, they were used for single target damage spiking, which is completely the opposite of their intended use.
Polaris and Catalyzer are still used for single target damage, which is the intention of guns, with a little bit of area of effect added. They're still within acceptable range of the gun class.
Sun, 12/01/2013 - 09:28
#8
Basically they had more range than most guns and when not used as guns, they could be placed directly under lumbers, destroying them in one hit with all eight shards and the explosion.
Sun, 12/01/2013 - 09:28
#9
oh, that
So we have a bomb in a gun and a sword in a gun and even a gun in a sword(brandish=bomb in a gun) but we can't have a sword/gun in a bomb ?
I don't see a big problem with the "gun range" of the old ones, they might do good damage, but alchemers deal more statuses, and gunners can shoot over gaps, which the bombs can't.
A little change was probably needed, but as far as i can tell, the current shard bombs are way too weak and useless:
You need to get a enemy near the bomb, so it gets hit by BOTH shards in if you want to do somewhat ok damage:
1 hit=50 damage
2 hits=100-150
3 hits=nope, hit limit bugs out 0 damage.
Sure, there are a few people that can use the bombs, but there aren't many alternate bombs to them, they are the main line, like the alchemers or brandishes for gunners and strikers.
Bombers already have it bad enough, and most of OOO's fixes are "we simply remove it, done", which isn't good. Bombers have only 1 defense type, only charged bombs(which makes anything but ctr useless) and most of the bombs don't work well(shard bombs). I've already made a bomber "update" topic about this, but i wanted to know the reason of the shard bombs, and how to find a way to "fix" them for real.
Sun, 12/01/2013 - 09:48
#10
Possible Fix
So, the current ones do bad damage for the most part, so how about this fix:
Change them mostly back to the old bombs
@Hexzye
Sure, they did damage to a single target, but the 8 spikes had a large area of effect:
.\...|.../.
..\..|../..
--------
../..|..\..
./...|...\.
So the range is somewhat bomb like. Adding a hit limit would fix the issues with the lumbers. Also the damage on the wiki says that the shard bombs with the vs slime/fiend bonus do more damage on that enemy group and the same on the other enemy group that is weak to the damage, which makes the other piercing/shadow bomb rather useless, so maybe the damage could be reduced a bit ?
Sun, 12/01/2013 - 10:08
#11
shart bombs can be a real
shart bombs can be a real problem with chronic incontinence, making any sort of public appearances risky...
Sun, 12/01/2013 - 10:19
#12
Goddess Ilias ain't gonna bless you, boy
Shooting 8 bullets is spreadfire, which leads to the illusion that's area of effect, but it's not. Regardless of how many targets are in that area, only 8 can be hit.
Sun, 12/01/2013 - 12:15
#13
I couldn't care less if the new mechanics of the bombs were actually fun to play with. Invincitinks and the fact that the timer is dodgy to work with just ruins the fun for me.
Fun > Anything else
Sun, 12/01/2013 - 12:47
#14
The issue with Nick's statement is that bombers need some method of doing damage to a single target. Its what makes swords and guns so much easier to use than bombs at the outset, and thus why very few players invest any serious amount of energy in them- whereas things like swords and guns give you both damage to an enemy, and damage to a crowd. Why settle for just crowd control when you can go for crowd control AND damage to a single target? Plus things like guns and swords let you use your shield fluidly in the middle of attacking, while bombs simply do not.
The sun shards could be used to spread out like he would have wanted. You might be only able to hit 8 enemies with it, but that's quite a few enemies. Its how people used the item in lockdown, and why it was so effective there.
Sun, 12/01/2013 - 13:36
#15
Your Voltedge isn't safe.
Hmm... maybe we should have a thing where they ask the players what they think about changes, and the majority vote decides what happens.
Sun, 12/01/2013 - 13:43
#16
They used to have surveys that popped up now and then.
"What would you like to see from a next Prize Box Promotion? (List of colour choices)"
"How would you rate the [newly introduced weapon]? (Choice of 1 - 5, 5 being the best)"
etc.
Not sure why they don't do this anymore. Despite popular belief, OOO did have a bit of a track record of listening to their crowd. When they wanted to change the Sun Shards to pure piercing (the first time), they listened after backlash from the community and kept it split damage. When the community's majority wanted AP to be pure elemental, they listened. Something is going on, but I say let it be.
As in the subject, they now have a hit limit, making them excruciatingly weak compared to the other bombs.
On a side note, you should spend some time here: https://www.youtube.com/user/ShardSquad/videos