In my opinion, the final hit of the Cutter is rarely used when the player wants to use it, and the player never wants to use it because it leaves the player vulnerable.
I do not believe damage per swing should be dropped for this change.
I take great offense to this post. DVS is my favorite sword, as it attacks very quickly and a very much and is also poison. Granted I don't use the charge much, but a weapon should not be defined by its charge. If used correctly, the forward momentum can actually be used to dodge enemy attacks or maneuver around traps mid-attack. The only problem i find with it is that it deals normal damage, meaning that all other specialized weapons deal much more damage. Despite this fact, it is my #1 sword of choice when i wear my Vog Cub, and Vog Cub is one of my most used armor sets.
The way I see it, is that SK isn't about balance, it's about having fun. These other weapons that are subpar in pwning everything could be changed to have increased damage or status effect, but this is a predominantly PvE game that is more for casual players than competitive players.
Things like balance and stuff like that, matters less for these casual games and moreso does the aesthetics and intuitive gameplay matter. Casual games like: Rouge Legacy, Angry Birds, Plants vs. Zombies, Spiral Knights. I could continue to write an essay about this stuff, but it'd take way too long and no one would probably care.
"the forward-moving slash combo of hits will most likely make u end up in traps or on the way of other monsters attack since all of tier 3 areas are plagued of traps and tini tiny spaces."
Yes, well... Let me ask you, how did the Spur users of the past deal with the 'forward-moving slash combo'? I dunno. I didn't get the chance to try it out before OOO removed the Spurs' unique attack movement, but I have heard many complaints in OOO removing it.
"some weapons are designed to just punish players for using them"
I wouldn't say that some weapons were designed with the intention to punish players for using them, more like OOO has not found a suitable answer to their design pitfalls to begin with (many significant changes in the game occurred post-release) and fiddling with the numbers a bit doesn't solve these pitfalls.
Also, I'm not exactly sure what I'm arguing for.
Toodles.
EDIT: I wish people stayed to the topic on my threads q.q nevur happens
Yeah. Those two posters said nothing that had anything to do with the issue you brought up.
+1
The way I see it, is that SK isn't about balance, it's about having fun. These other weapons that are subpar in pwning everything could be changed to have increased damage or status effect, but this is a predominantly PvE game that is more for casual players than competitive players.
The problem with that mode of thinking though is people are paying either a large portion of time or a portion of their money to obtain these weapons. When a weapon is underperforming compared to other weapons you end up not being able to perform as well as others and what you end up with is a bunch of "noob traps" that some people will be bound to fall into. If you end up progressing the game with a weapon that has an insufficient amount of power to justify spending crystal energy and crowns to craft I would bet you wouldn't be happy about it being sub-optimal.
Nobody in their right mind would make their first weapon a Winmillion to "have fun" over something from the Brandish line or from the Sealed Sword line. It's like playing an MMO with the mobs levels permanently 5 levels higher than you. You simply cannot derive a substantial quantity of fun from a game if you do not sufficiently stand a chance against your PVE mobs.
"Nobody in their right mind would make their first weapon a Winmillion to "have fun" over something from the Brandish line or from the Sealed Sword line. It's like playing an MMO with the mobs levels permanently 5 levels higher than you. You simply cannot derive a substantial quantity of fun from a game if you do not sufficiently stand a chance against your PVE mobs."
haahh...
Let me introduce you to Vageta311...
Dragon's Dogma Bitter Black Isle Challenge
Dark Souls NG+7 (fresh start)
I guess this guy is somewhat of an extreme example against your point, but he's the first player that came to my mind. I know that I wouldn't have fun playing Dark Souls New Game +7 Soul Level 1, because that's pretty ridiculous, but I wouldn't mind a little challenge. It is gratifying to overcome challenges. To be able to say that I was able to beat this challenge, it's awesome. The greater the challenge that one has overcome, the greater enjoyment one feels. Maybe you just haven't had a taste of what it feels like to overcome a good challenge.
I remember playing Ratchet and Clank, and spending so much time trying to complete the escape from Blackwater's sewers before it flooded. Many a time did I nearly make it, but was a few breaths away from success. I was overjoyed when I finally beat that, I had only seconds more of breath before I would die again. It was one of the most amazing things I have experienced when I was younger. In the end though, never did get around to beating that game. I probably could beat it now.
EDIT: asdfasdfasdf stay on topic pwease... Anyone have anything to say about my suggestion .-.
WHAT?!?! How rude! I was so on topic. This post suggested a change in cutter attack pattern, and I just said that I like the cutter as it is now. How is that off topic? Unless im missing something...which i usually am...
EDIT: Gotta love that Ratchet & Clank reference, that was my game back in the day.
It seemed like you were responding to the 2nd post, not the 1st post... The first line of your post might have indicated a reply to the OP, but you went on to talk about the 2nd post. I didn't talk about 'charge attacks' and 'forward momentum' at all in the OP and because language is meant to be read in context, I thought you were talking 'bout the 2nd post. All I've said was to make the Cutter attack combo endless and the 1st attack also moves the player forwards. If you want to respond to two people in one post, please split your post into paragraphs or something.
Anyways, I would think that a Cutter fan would like an infinite attack combo... I much confuse. I guess you prefer a limited attack combo and having extra damage on the 5th attack to an infinite rush of bitin' wolf fury. The previous sentence may have been subject to some bias.
...And there it is, the thing I was missing. My bad Q, I know i worded my post badly, and I also misread your OP. Didn't quite get that you wanted an infinite combo.
That being said, I still don't know about that idea. I never use more than 3-4 attacks at a time, and sometimes use the 5th on slow moving or stationary enemies like lumbers or turrets. Because of this, an infinite combo wouldn't be all that useful to me. But since that is just my own personal attack style, it doesn't completely debunk your idea.
This feels like very justified change; the last hit of the cutter always feels rather cumbersome and has the tendency to leave me open to tree-to-the-face every now and then. In conjunction with this, could we remove the knockback on the 'actual' swings and put it on the ghost swings? That way the ghost strikes would land on mobile enemies. And retain the ability to shield-cancel the strikes. It's not like it would make the swords OP or anything.
@Aviri I really can not imagine why developers would design something to punish players for doing something that isn't 'bad', like exploiting glitches. Especially if they earned it.
@Felimorphus Winmillion was my first ever craft. I can derive plenty enjoyment from using things that aren't exactly optional. Maybe it's because I don't find much enjoyment in being able to curb-stomp everything I come across and having no challenge. Or maybe it's because I'm one of those weird people who used chaos before it's mega buff and always valued normal damage over specialised damage.
~Ethanol
Now changing the knockback to the ghost swings is something i can get on board with. I find that I am often missing every other attack (ghost swing) because of that, which pretty much drops the DPS of a cutter in half.
u want to make it an endless forward jumping combo? no!! NO! why why why, no ghost blade will ever hit an enemy that way. (thats why i use just the first hit of the DVS, shield cancel and repeat)
i'd like it more if the sword had no knockback effect or just on the ghost swing rather than that, personally i think that the last hit is neglected just because the more you hits you make, the more time you're vulnerable and likely to get hit, even if there was an infinite ammount of sword combo you can make, people would not go too far with it to be relevant at all.
DERAILING WALL TEXT ALERT OMG WHY!
and for the part of avoiding monsters while attacking, i think thats not a reliable option since most of the rooms that require some degree of skill to be done are full of spammy mobs like turrets kats devilites or whatever that make avoiding hits in mid-swing way too hard. the only places where i do use this is when i am trying to kill a lone lumber, a turret or vanaduke 1st stage i can circle them easy and hit them all time while running away, besides from that avoiding hits while attacking at same time is a move that you can use, and you should, but it's hardly a compensation for being vulnerable for a longer period of time than other swords while dealing less damage.
and poison... hehehe, it is useful only for stopping enemies from regenerating health and makes them overall weaker but i never felt like a poison master ender-of-healers with it, the chance is far too low and you could do better trying to one-shot everything with other most powerful weapons. now don't take me wrong, i do like DVS, in fact i take it with me almost always, but that doesn't change the fact that i do way much better with other weapons.(and now that obsidian edge is around DVS sure feels like less useful)
and for the one who said balance doesn't matter, i respectfully disagree, i value balance over most things, i think that every weapon should be equally useful as others, and by useful i don't mean super spamcharge-destroy-the-world like a brandish, but giving it a reason to be used over other weapons not just because you feel like "YOLO, i am killing stuffz with cutters asdasd1337" it'd be way more fun to see people actually taking smart decisions on their gear and be good at that than just going for the OP stuff and get a welcome to the clonefest.
"this is a predominantly PvE game that is more for casual players than competitive players."
I do not say this because of lockdown, i hardly ever play lockdown, but it is true that imbalance at its strongest is shown there, the problem is that most weapons are as underpowered in LD as they are in PvE.
Take a look at shadow lairs, and the actual cost of having a set of fully heated 5* weapons and armor, you rly think that stuff is designed for casual players? spending your time, effort, and money if you choose to, making a weapon, ANY weapon, should be rewarded with the usefulness of it's existance equally to others, being at a disadvantage for choosing a different play style IS a punishment. (not that i say that OOO does it on purpose, they just need to do something about that)
i am so sorry for derailing this thread so much, BUT IT JUST CAN'T BE STOPPED.
Hai Ethanol-san.
Anyways.
@Aviri
"no ghost blade will ever hit an enemy that way"
Well... I don't know how extra hits will make it so that no ghost blades will ever hit the enemy... You don't want to do the infinite combo, just don't mindlessly spam 'attack'... I don't know why this matters to you as you state that you generally utilise the first strike. The infinite combo is to enable players to wail on enemies and not be encumbered by the fickle final strike of the Cutter that rarely aids players.
"and for the one who said balance doesn't matter, i respectfully disagree, i value balance over most things"
First of all, I am 'that guy' (hehehe R&C). Second of all, the only way to balance this game would be to drag the OP weapons down, which a large portion of the SK community adores. Why? because aside from the OP weapons, a large portion of the weapons are quite balanced and respectful in their own right. I consider the Cutter to almost be one of these. I believe it just needs a little tweaking as it hasn't changed since beta (If I remember correctly).
"giving it a reason to be used over other weapons not just because you feel like "YOLO, i am killing stuffz with cutters asdasd1337""
The way that I play right now, I swap from party to party to party and I just roll with whatever weapons I have at the moment, and I generally focus on single targets. Sometimes I do feel like 'YOLO cutterz' but it's more like I have no clue what situation I'm getting into and having the same equipment overall is good for what I do and I prefer having weapons that are good at quickly taking out single targets. And there are little quirks in weapons like the Winmillion and WHB and LHB that I favor much more than the mechanics in the mainstream weaponry. For example: Winmillion has great knockback per hit and can swing really fast; Winmillion has an aimable charge attack (after starting the animation); WHB charge attack will stagger enemies about 3/4 the way through the charge attack and hold them in place; LHB charge attack can be twice as effective as normal if one knows the trick, and thus has 2 easily interchangeable outputs for knockback. My Voltedge and DA can't do any of that; They are more for groups of enemies.
I have reasons to use Cutters other than 'YOLO cutterz' 'hipstar' stuff.
That fifth hit that supposedly "rarely" aids that knight just so happens to be the cutters best attack as it's the only one with considerable knockback (one of the main reasons Cutters are underpowered, no knockback makes them dangerous to use).
The 2nd hit of Cutters gives plenty of knockback to dodge an enemy. Your "considerable knockback" appears to be much farther than my definition.
The 5th hit is rarely helpful because, Cutters generally do not stagger enemies on combo attacks unless one does a full combo in which most strikes hit the enemy (DVS requires all strikes to hit an enemy). Thus, the final hit does not stagger enemies that much and enemies can just attack back while the player is vulnerable while recovering from the final hit cooldown. The WHB does stagger enemies more often than the DVS, but it's not powerful enough to warrant always going for the full combo attack.
@ Dibsville
Wow, you're the first person I ever met to use a cutter for it's knockback...
I use mine for DPS.
I've also been told I'm weird for not using my Chaos for its damage increase, and for not using my Vog for the Fire res.
I don't use Vog for fire res, I use it for the ASI. I use Grey Feather for fire res. And Chaos is a douche set (too OP), so I try not to use the full thing just pieces mixed with other sets.
What if Cutters let you move freely and attack at the same time, like bombs or guns?
@ Draycos
Ew, then you could just kite a monster and unleash a full 10-hit combo on them without even worrying about being hit. Takes all the skill out of the sword. One of the reason's I feel guns are bad ass, because they are so mobile; the lower attack power makes up for it though.
And bombs can do that because they are not "attacking", just charging. You can move while charging with any weapon.
But it's like using a close-range gun. I want more (balanced) items that bleed the lines between weapon types.
You only stand still for an instant when placing a bomb. Not sure what you mean.
I think it'd be a good, skill-intensive addition to the game...
"I don't know how extra hits will make it so that no ghost blades will ever hit the enemy"
Read my first post again. ghost blades ( and sometimes even the 3rd- 4th main swing) Do not hit the opponent unless it is an immovable or knockback immune target
"the only way to balance this game would be to drag the OP weapons down"
That isn't true, as i said before you can give them at least an utility over being DPS weapons (wich clearly they are not) like a different charge attack that poisons a group of enemies or giving it an even greater chance of poison and even then it'd be underpowered but it would at least have a meaning to even use one other than wanting to deal 160 dmg per hit instead of doing 300- 400
"I prefer having weapons that are good at quickly taking out single targets"
that is one of the main things why cutters are broken, and it is because of this thing you said isn't 100% true, and the reason of this? well the reason is the weapon on itself, the inability to land half of the hits you're supposed to (the meaning of this weapon is to land a lot of hits faster but it also fails on that), the low damage overall and a dangerous charge attack make cutters to be just a very low dps weapon with a slight chance of poison. (for DVS, that is ,whb is jst ugh...)
and for the stagger of the charge attack that really means nothing as all swords have stagger on their 3rd hit and can easily lock single targets while hitting them over and over again while dealing more damage. sure they won't be "holded in place" but that is also what makes you vulnerable for a full 3 seconds and you have a very high chance of getting hit unless theres no other monsters around.
like i said before, there are other weapons that do better at single target than a cutter and are not closely as much self-risking as a cutter is... hell you can even one shot most monsters with a single brandish charge while keeping a safe distance from monsters.
my first weapons to ever use were a cutter and a brandish (wich then evolved to combuster and DVS) by that time brandishes did not have the OP charge they have now, and the only good in it's charge was the huge slash with chance of causing status effect and an explosion that if i remember correctly was quite buggy and rarely ever showed up. I have been around for a long time and i think i know how weapons work and how they don't, and for sure i know that cutters are broken and desperately need a band-aid :P
@Draycos
The thing about swords, is that it's relatively higher damage for being at close quarters and vulnerability if the sword is misused. To make Cutters have free movement would actually make Cutters underpowered; Unless you're saying to enable movement during the combo attack during which you move forwards, that'd be OP as Cutters have decent damage and now have the movement capabilities generally tied to guns and bombs.
@Aviri
DAE attack-hold and move? .-.
I generally do an attack or two, hold my attack button, move to a better position, continue to attack a couple times, hold my attack button, repeat, endlessly. This bypasses the problem of shield-cancelling bumping enemies away and solves most of the ghost strike problems as you aren't doing the full attack combo. I only do a continuous full combo when my target has something behind it to stop it from moving so much.
As I stated before. Just because there is an infinite combo, doesn't mean that you have to use it... It's just there if you want to attack like crazy. There are times when one wants to attack like crazy and this change would allow for this.
Elite mode is not Elite mode with Brandishes, DA, GF, Flourishes, Alchemers, etc. The only true way to balance the game, would be to pull down these weapons as I said that many (not all) of the other weapons are balanced. It is not so much as these "other weapons" that are broken, it is more so that these overpowered weapons that are broken.
It's pretty decent in taking out single targets. Yes Cutters may do lower damage like LHB and Triglav, but that makes the charge attack very safe in teams. The enemies are generally aggro'd towards your teammates and you can just use a charge attack on a couple to change the aggro to you, and focus them down. I do this with monsters other than minis. Cutter is pretty much the only sword that has a precision charge attack, the other one being Winmillion. All the other swords just haphazardly blast everything.
Bombs have area of effect attacks, but require you to be charging, which means you can't shield.
Guns have high range, but have low damage to counteract your safety.
A free-movement Cutter would have better damage than a gun while having lower area than a bomb, because you have to be in melee range but don't have to be totally vulnerable. At the same time, Cutters would have little else to set them apart from other swords; free movement is their defining gimmick.
See also: Rocket Hammers, which have a dash attack and wide swings but are harder to safely use and have no reliable AOE.
Did that help?
Giving the cutter free movement would not make it a skill-intensive addition, as the sword would be too easy to use. And that would outclass most guns, as it would allow free movement which is a gun exclusive mechanic (bombs are not free moving, as you do not move while they are attacking. Any weapon can move while it is charging, and when the bomb does release the charge and attack they are immobile)
Not only would the free movement allow you to easily dodge any attack, but you would also be able to easily hit with every attack without fail, something that not even other swords can do easily (they usually require a charge step to hit the last attack).
It also wouldn't be logical in a role-playing sense. When using a gun, all you need to do is aim and shoot, something you can do while moving if you are a good enough shot. But with swordplay, it is a martial art. You can't just flail about willy nilly without any purpose to your movement, hoping something would hit. That would be the same as a novice. Every sword attack movement has a purpose.
Think of it this way. Not being able to reliably flinch enemies while dealing low overall damage means you have to play well to make up for your disadvantages, using that free movement. Comparatively, you just m1m1m1 with a 3-hitter while aiming at an enemy's face to flinch them, or just peck them with slight delays. Charge-stepping is a mechanic, but I don't think it requires any real skill.
It'd be totally different if I was asking for a damage boost to boot, but I'm not. If anything related to damage, I want WHB to lose its Beast bonus and become full Piercing or something. Maybe DVS could be pure Shadow as well. Would need a pure-normal variant though.
It certainly wouldn't outclass guns. What part of "melee range" did you miss?
AoE was written off as exclusive to bombs and swords some time ago by Nick, and hey, we have Pulsars. Certainly those "rules" are something to take into consideration, but there should be one or two weapons that "bleed the lines" like I keep mentioning.
"It doesn't make sense" is not a valid reason with all the other illogical things in this game.
Just saying here, I am ignoring the posts above as they seem to be off topic and TL;DR.
I am posting though as I decided I'd write up some new attack patterns for the cutter line and charge attacks for the final two.
Basic attacks
First swing: simple arch slice, same as now.
Second swing: spin slash similar to the last hit of the GF/DA. If you don't attack again then you have the same wait time as those weapon's last swing but if you keep mashing your attack button you don't wait.
Third swing: First swing but you lunge forward.
Fourth/last swing: spin dash forward with the same slash as the GF/DA but faster. Three spins should be preformed during this attack. This means this can hit 6 times on one enemy. The enemy gets pulled with the player so an enemy can be hit all times. The player should move forward roughly 4 spaces.
The current charge attack for the cutters should remain for the cuter and striker line.
HB and WHB charge attack:
Player spins rapidly cutting enemies and producing ghost blades/wolvers. Each time the player hits an enemy a new ghost blade/wolver spawns. Each swing produces a ghost swing/wolver as well. The player completes 7 spins and takes up 2 seconds of spinning. During this spinning the player can move around but at a reduced speed.
VS and DVS charge attack:
As long as the player has the DVS/VS out the player produces a small, 1.5 block radius of poison that disappears after 2 seconds. This buff on the player lasts up to 7 seconds.
@Draycos
"Think of it this way. Not being able to reliably flinch enemies while dealing low overall damage means you have to play well to make up for your disadvantages"
I already do this with the WHB, this change will let me be OP with the WHB, and screw with my mind as I would be able to move during the melee combo.
"It certainly wouldn't outclass guns. What part of "melee range" did you miss?"
I'll stress Masterreave's point. We're not talking about the melee range. We're talking about the ability to move freely while attacking, that is completely inherent in bombs, moderately inherent in guns, and never inherent in swords. Swords in return for having higher damage, have static movement when attacking and while at close range. I can see how you think that he was talking about range in his previous post (a couple areas can reference attack range), but we're talking about the free movement as he explicitly stated in a portion of his post.
""bleed the lines" like I keep mentioning."
Oh okay... Just sayin' Nick will never approve more bleedin' of the lines. It's highly more likely that Winmillion will have its bullets removed rather than your cutter change bleedin' the lines between the weapons.
Anyways, I really dislike this movement during attack idea. It does not fit into the sword class as I stated before.
@Waffleconecake
Your post is pretentious, implying that you are on topic while you completely ignore the OP and just post whatever you wanted; Just like Draycos. In Draycos' case, I did not notice that his question was off topic and just quickly responded to it and legitimised it, and moved on to responding to Aviri. Your post is as much off topic as Draycos' suggestion was... I'll just threateningly glare at the computer screen while I read your post...
I am quite peeved as I did not make this an aggregation thread and it just became one... grrr.... nothing is ever on topic for my threads.
Your attack pattern makes absolutely no sense. What weapon can have variable cooldown times in the middle of an attack combo. What you're basically suggesting, is that you have a weapon that has two combo attacks that link into each other and that you should always attack 3 times instead of 2 times because, logic... What is up with the 4th swing anyhow, it's a triple spin?! So... a weak Calibur charge in the middle of an attack combo? wat.
7 spins in 2 seconds? Let's compare it to the Calibur eh? Calibur: a spin in maybe .2 seconds, but it has the ability to hit 3 times, (I believe) due to the hitscan location of the spin moving into the enemy and hitting the enemy at the beginning, middle, and end of the spin. I'm assuming that this tornado will not move the character by itself, so that the new WHB charge will not benefit as the Calibur does and it will be inferior as the tornado will hit fewer times per second. (It probably needs something like a defence buff that activates for two seconds)
VS and DVS charge attack is moreso for a BS skill or bomb than a sword charge attack... Also, you're saying that the VS and DVS charge attacks are just making clouds of poison? mmmmkay dude. Need more information
As much as it sounds like a decent suggestion to you, I do not know things like damage, attack speed, movement speed (during charge attack), strength of poison, etc. Details that fully flesh out a suggestion and allow someone to support it; Either go super-crazy, tangential, coherent explanation as Luguiru used to, or make your suggestion simpler with fewer variables to define for the reader. You fell into the pitfall that many fall into, thinking that dreams and cloudy ideas can become reality without giving the real details that allow an idea to come to life.
I know you were talkig about the free movement, which I why I mentioned melee range again...
How are you doing the same things? Stopping and starting comboes as you please? Nah, that just isn't the same. Besides, cutters need SOMETHING going for them since they're pretty below-average at nearly everything. Some reason to use them over, say, a rocket hammer, or a flourish.
"It doesn't fit with the weapon family"? Right, like old shards and Pulsars and Spur and etc, etc... I don't know why weapons HAVE to follow specific rules as opposed to being based on a rough set of rules. And now I'm talking in full circles.
@ Waffleconcake
I pretty much agree with Q on the point of your post, so I won't bother writing out a lengthly response. Just know that that is 2 people who agree about the point of your post.
@ Draycos
I think you're underrating cutters a bit too much. The only real problem with them is that it is hard to hit the ghost blades since the first attack deals too much knockback, their charge is all but useless, and that they all deal pure normal damage and are thus outclassed by other weapons. So realistically, the only thing that needs to be changed is to:
1. Move the knockback to the ghost sword and leave the first attack deal no knockback. This way, it would be easier to hit every attack.
2.Change their charge attacks to something more useful. Not sure what it would become, there could be other threads and posts to settle on a single thing.
3. Give WHB split pierce and normal damage and take away the beast bonus; give DVS elemental or shadow split with normal damage. Debates can be held to settle which damage type is used (although i would prefer shadow). This would make both lines of sword up to par with the damage ranges of other swords. Cutter and Striker should still deal pure normal however, and both WHB and DVS should have a slight damage reduction so as to not out DPS other swords since they would now be able to hit all 10 times.
@ Qwez
Sorry man, I don't mean to keep going off topic, but I just don't have much else to say about your original idea.
The thing that makes Cutters Underpowered is the knockback. First hit knocks an enemy back which makes the second hit miss, and the cycle repeats. That doesn't apply for larger enemies which don't get knocked back, like Lumbers or static enemies like Turrets. If they didn't have that knockback, damage wouldn't be a problem.
I like the charge, it's effective against turrets and slower enemies but like Antigua charges, you need to be sure you're in a safe area to perform it.
wow someone at least agreed with me on the knockback thing, but be careful what you wish for, if cutter's had no knockback they would become quite a risk for the knight using them, i hate to say this but if they take away something from this sword, be it for good or bad, there are people who ain't going to be happy with it, removing something from any weapon, be it OP weapons or not, will always make people rage and cry, the only "good" way to fix things is buffing up underpowered weapons, but at this point i am dubious that OOO will try and fix this problems anytime soon.
As for the OP i'll have to agree with masterreeve, there's not much more to be said about this, why u want an infini-combo if you're not planning to spam attacks like crazy?, how does it affect you not to have a limit on the number of attacks if you just won't get past the first 4 swings? the last attack is not the problem with a cutter's combo, the last attack will be dangerous to use anyway because what is making you vulnerable is reaching for it, you spammed attacks way too much.
even if you play around with monster's agressions or whatever you're doing to keep yourself safe, you should not get past the third swing or so, there will always be random turret bullets, teleporting wolvers, deadly jelly spikes, charging trojan shields, stinky zombie breaths, spooky kat bites, slimy chroma vomit, sturdy devilite furniture, annoying mortar rains, the list can go on and on, but i feel like i am wasting time, people who need this things explained to them clearly don't have enough experience with the game's content, or they just don't care enough to adress this issues.
@Qwez People aren't going "off-topic", they're branching out the discussion since the original one is all but over.
@Master Maybe I am, maybe I'm not, but they're still subpar damage with little utility no matter how you slice it.
No knockback would make it useless on defense except against Fiends..
There are less shadow swords than elemental swords, so definitely Shadow. I'm concerned with split-damage since everyone knows how broken it is right now... Ideally, I'd agree 100%.
DVS must stay normal. WHB is made for beasts so piercing would be ok, but DVS is good in many situations and deals great one-target damage, so I would like to use it on trojans and dreadnaughts.
as for the buff it should have, infinite combo seems a bit too safe to be a cutter. cutter is made for close up high risk combat. moving the knowckback on the ghost swing seems ok, but I would go for a damage buff too.
@ Draycos
There still would be knock back, it would just be on the ghost swing instead of the initial swing. Meaning that as long as you hit with the ghost swing (which would be easier now since the first hit doesn't knock the enemy out of range) the monster would be moved the same distance.
Ghost blades never hit your opponents since from 2nd to 5th swing they appear in the place where you started the swing (behind you)
charge attack is just useless as it leaves you open for every monster in the world to eat u alive, and even if you do land all the strikes on a single enemy it is weaker than a brandish charge, yes i had to bring brandishes into this.
the forward-moving slash combo of hits will most likely make u end up in traps or on the way of other monsters attack since all of tier 3 areas are plagued of traps and tini tiny spaces.
lets face it, some weapons are designed to just punish players for using them, like Sudaruska, triglav, antigua's charge, Callahan, Iron slug, Cutters specially hunting blade, flameberge, fearless rigadoon (and bombs i can't say much cuz i rarely ever see them being used and i just don't bother with them)