Spiral Knights - An Ethanolic Suggests: A change to the shard bombs

An Ethanolic Suggests: A change to the shard bombs

20 replies [Last post]

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 23:46

Etharaes

In the first edition of An Ethanolic Suggests, I will propose a change to the shard bombs.

As it stands, shard bombs come in six flavours: pure normal, pure elemental, pure shadow, shadow with a sprinkling of fair chance of moderate shock and a dash of slime: very high, pure piercing, and piercing with a sprinkling of fair chance of moderate stun and a dash of fiend: very high.

Now these bombs may seem fine in theory, but they are just not up to par with any of the other damage bombs, excluding the BAB and irontech destroyer.

Suggestion part A: Making all the specialised shards gourmet.

At the moment, most people choose the gourmet shard bombs (the ones with a status effect and damage bonus vs. a specific monster family) over their respective plain, microwaveable meal shard bombs (the pure damage ones with no extra effects). This is because they look more interesting, act more interestingly, and the small reduction in damage is offset by the added effects. My proposal is to make all shard bombs into gourmet shard bombs, except for the Deadly Shard Bomb, which we will get to later.

How it will work: Shocking Salt Bomb and Scintillating Sun Shards remain the same. Deadly Crystal Bomb, Deadly Splinter Bomb and Deadly Dark Matter Bomb will be changed to be similar to the current status shard bombs. A new elemental type shard bomb will be created. Each bomb will have a damage bonus to a monster family and a status attached to it.

Shocking Salt Bomb: Remains the same.
Deadly Dark Matter Bomb: Now has a gremlin damage bonus: very high and a fair chance of causing moderate poison. Will be renamed appropriately.
Scintillating Sun Shards: Remains the same.
Deadly Splinter Bomb: How has a beast damage bonus: very high and a fair chance of causing minor curse. Will be renamed appropriately. Note: This is the least game breaking combination considering I did not want double ups of statuses. Strength of status may be reduced if need be.
Deadly Crystal Bomb: Now has an undead damage bonus: very high and a fair chance of causing moderate fire. Will be renamed appropriately. Note: Zombies are mentioned in the description of the 4* version and that is why this bomb will be the one to have the undead damage bonus.
New elemental typed shard bomb: Has a construct damage bonus: very high and a fair chance of causing moderate freeze.

This is the suggestion that I want most to happen. I am open for suggestions for the new names of these bombs. I will probably add names + descriptions for these bombs later.

Suggestion part B: Let’s not forget about the odd one out, the Deadly Shard Bomb!

Now to address the problem of the Deadly Shard Bomb. I have two ideas to go about this:

The first: Give the Deadly Shard Bomb a slight chance of causing a random strong status, OR a good chance of inflicting a minor status. I’m not sure how much this would increase it’s effectiveness, but it would make it a lot more fun, which is ultimately why I, and many others, play this game.
The second: Give the Deadly Shard Bomb a damage PENALTY: very high. However, it’s damage would be raised so that it would deal the same amount of damage at penalty very high as it currently does with no damage bonus or penalty. Credit to Zeddy for this idea.

One of these ideas should be implemented if part A is implemented.

Suggestion part C: Uninventive changes

Buff the damage of shard bombs by 20%.

Remove the hit limit. I don’t really hold much of an opinion about it, but this feels mandatory to add. It won’t make the shard bombs game-breakers, or even OP considering brandishes, and currently the hit limit or shards is buggy.

I also suggest that either the fuse time for the ‘ring’ of shards be reduced to half of what it is now, or both, and add the difference in time to the fuse time. This is so that landing the core and a shard is easier to do.

So there you go, my first suggestion in the An Ethanolic Suggests series. Comment, debate, and please don’t hate.

Main post: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/94010

~Etharaes

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 05:08

Sandwich-Potato

Eh.

For a first suggestion, it's better than most of the people's threads here (I mean really, they want to unnerf DR?). But:

-We don't need every status. That's just ridiculous. I mean really, Poison? Curse? It'll be like a Mist Bomb, but with more damage, a stronger version, and less range, which can be countered by player skill.
-Deadly Shard Bomb's new random status would be drastically overpowered. It's like the previous shard bombs, but the status is strong. Do you know how powerful a strong status is? In Lockdown, a strong status would pretty much be your bane. Albeit the damage penalty thing is, like Zeddy said, quite good.
-If you remove the hit limit, the original shard bombs would be fine. It's just the invincitinks that annoy people. As Zeddy said (paraphrased):

If they nerfed DR, it would still be fine. If they added invincitinks, that would be where I would start fires and riots.

-Fuse time is fine. As many bombers have expressed beforehand, cutting fuse time would mess up their habits, and they would have to relearn how to use the bomb all over again for chaining.

You still made a suggestion that's better than most first suggestions (derpIwant2swordsandmagickzkthxbye).

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 05:53

Whimsicality

I stopped taking the first part of this suggestion seriously once I read "Moderate Curse". Tacking a nonsensical status on the piece of garbage won't hide the fact that it's still garbage.

Remove invincitinks, like you and many others have suggested. Additionally, make the shards explode on contact in addition to the timer.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 06:15

Zeddy

I think the pure shard bombs can be fine damage bombs, they just need more damage.

Curse is a bit derp. Also, undead are resistant to freeze.

I would give Deadly Shard Bomb fire. Only way the bomb can be good for anything.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 11:48

Etharaes

Made minor updates.

First of all, let me say this: I do not bother trying to balance things based on lockdown. Lockdown is already very imbalanced, and things which are OP/UP/balanced there can be an entirely different story in PvE. PvE is a much, much larger portion of the game than lockdown, and so I think we should make changes based on PvE.

@Whimiscality I changed the blaring error and made moderate curse minor curse. I did think of making it weaker originally, but just made it moderate originally for uniformity. Please don't simply write this entire thread off because of that one thing. It isn't exactly nonsensical either, especially considering the Shocking Salt Bomb. Think of ancient civilisations and ancient curses. That kind of thing.

@Sandwich-Potato Why can't we have every status? Haze bombs and shard bombs fill different roles, the main considerations being that haze bombs have pretty much guaranteed chances of inflicting their status and do not have uncontrollable, disruptive knockback making them more party friendly.

Nerfed the random status idea. Admittedly, that was OP. I suppose I was in a bit of a rush to post this.

If we reduce the time for the shards to go off then it will be easier to land both the core and an outer shard on the same enemy. Bombers will get used to the new fuse time. It wont take ages. I say this as a part-time bomber myself. The reason I put reducing the timer on the shards and adding it to the fuse is because there were complaints about it being hard to land the core and an outer shard on the same enemy.

@Zeddy Switched around the two statuses on the elemental shards. Cue people complaining about FSC.

It would be nice if you posted which monsters are weak to/resistant to certain statuses. If you have, please direct me to where you have done so.

@Everyone Yes, shards have a hit limit. However, I do not believe this is the only thing that makes shards sub-par. Aside from shards no longer bugging out, you will be able to land some more shards on lumbers, Trojans if you're lucky, dreadnoughts if you're lucky, Vanaduke, and the Royal Jelly. That's basically it. I don't know of any other enemies which you could land 3+ shards on them. I believe there are other ways to buff the shards other than just doing that.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 12:42

Epicskunk

How Shard Bombs Work

Nope,no scolding.No appraising either.

First off,let me tell you something about shard bombs.No "No s*** Sherlock." comments to my comment. (That was an akward sentence.)

Shard bombs has the shortest fuse,which makes it a spam bomb.
Putting 1 bomb will make it explode after 1.2 seconds or so.
On explosion,it creates 6 shards,scattering in a ring-ish shape,which also makes the bomb a multi-area damaging bomb.
he main bomb does damage,as well as the shards.
These bombs work like Cluster Bombs at Worms series ; the real damage comes from the clusters.Example,if the bomb itself does 20 damage,each shard does 29 damage,with Normal damage,and no UVs.
In right hands,this bomb is OP against all enemies and bosses,even Vanaduke.I have seen people defeathing Vanaduke in 2-3 minutes,even faster than 5★ Fully Heated Gunslinger Armor + Fully Heated Perfect Mask Of Seerus + Fully Heated Blitz Needle loadout!
On wrong hands,it is just a mosquito bite for a Giant ; it is useless.
It's way useless at LD,since the opponent have enough time to flee from the second prase of the bomb,if you missed..

Now,onto the actual topic.Your ideas would make these bombs even more OP,or always useless.

That is what I am thinking,others can be "You know you are an idiot?" or "I agree with him.",since it is what I'm thinking,it does not matter.

I am being seerious right now. *rimshot*

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 14:19

Zeddy

I have a chart.

Haven't filled in stun yet, but I suspect gremlins, fiends and beasts. (that is to say, all soft-bodied enemies) to be weak to stun.

@Epicskunk

Shard bombs have the longest fuse, unless you're talking about the 0.1 second that the core explosion has on Nitronome.

Shard bombs are, in fact, used for their shards.

I would love to see a video of this 3-minute defeat of Vanaduke using shards, though. My record is at, like, 13 minutes.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 14:27

Epicskunk

@Zeddy

1- No,they don't.Me and my friend tried it,and his Nitronome exploded later on.If you are talking about all the phases,then you are right,it has the longest fuse.But I am not talking about that.

2- Finally,someone who can understand!

3- Video got deleted,for Youtube staff harrassing...Yeah,that is stupid.

But it is real,the person used Deadly Splinter Bomb with CTR VH,Mad Bomber Set,Crest Of Almire with Shadow Defense : Medium,and 2 Elite Bomb Modules than increase damage.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 14:35

Zeddy

I would love to meet this person, although I'm not sure why they'd be using mad bomber when their shard bombs are already at max CTR from the UV, nor do I know why they'd use two boom modules when they're wearing full mad bomber.

Could you tell them to send me a mail or a friend request or something? If they're as good as you say, I would really love to see them in action.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 14:44

Epicskunk

I can't remember their name :

I didn't looked at the name of the one that is soloing the Vana.
And my friend blocked me,so I can't see his name as well.He blocked me because I have Epic in my name. :'(

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 15:02

#10

Skold-The-Drac

Roflstomping shards

Epicskunk... There's a simple set of rules here on the net.
I know zeddy's a fantastic bomber, and honestly shard squad's the only group I've seen even approach the KOA ready room with shards in hand. If your friend can show up and put up a video of the boss fight done in 7 minutes with shards only, I will personally buy $20 of e and give him it.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 17:16

#11

Zeddy

Hey, can I get in on that challenge? Does normal mode count? I crunched the numbers, and if I can place a shard bomb once per second and hit Vana with two shards from each bomb, it should be theoretically possible to do the fight in slightly over 2 minutes + time required for Vanaduke to stomp around between phases.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 06:33

#12

Epicskunk

Well,I can't see him online

Well,I can't see him online anymore,so he is trolling.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 06:58

#13

Mushy-Bucket

---

"I crunched the numbers, and if I can place a shard bomb once per second and hit Vana with two shards from each bomb, it should be theoretically possible to do the fight in slightly over 2 minutes + time required for Vanaduke to stomp around between phases."
Zeddy is the only person in this game who fights it like a math test.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 07:08

#14

Epicskunk

@Mushy-Bucket

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 10:19

#15

Skold-The-Drac

@zeddy

The time for vana to stomp around (from invincible to being attackable) I'd imagine is just over a minute in total. It doesn't seem too long but it'd still count against ya.
Could you bump it to advanced difficulty at least? I imagine then you'd have a little timing to pull. :p

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:44

#16

The-Vindicar

> Deadly Dark Matter Bomb:

> Deadly Dark Matter Bomb: Now has a gremlin damage bonus: very high and a fair chance of causing moderate poison. Will be renamed appropriately.

It would be a supreme clone of Obsidian Crusher.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 14:19

#17

Masterreeve

I make you black, bluue and red all over

Vindicar, that would be like saying that Electron Vortex is a clone of Voltiac Tempest. The two bombs functions completely differently, so just because they share the same status does not mean they are clones of each other.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 19:39

#18

Fehzor

I'd actually agree with Vindicar quite a bit- poison+shadow is kind of over-used at this point.

Mon, 12/09/2013 - 03:29

#19

Masterreeve

I make you black, bluue and red all over

@ Fehzor
As far as i know, only 4 weapons use a poison and shadow combination, 3 of which were released with the Obsidian update. Considering that, I don't see how the combo is overused.

Mon, 12/09/2013 - 05:47

#20

Sandwich-Potato

Well...

I mean we just got over the fuss of having 300% more Shadow and Poison combo weapons that came with a new, OMGRUNFORYOURLIFE theme. I don't think most people would really care about another Shadow and Poison combo thing.

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An Ethanolic Suggests: A change to the shard bombs