Spiral Knights - Spiral Knights can never be a great game

Spiral Knights can never be a great game

132 replies [Last post]

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 05:35

Zeddy

We keep asking for more challenging content, but the truth is that the current content is as challenging as the game can possibly get. Even that is pushing it.

You could make more challenging content, sure. You could flood even more cramped rooms with even more nasty monsters with even more health, but it wouldn't be fun, and the game's engine simply doesn't support a very high level of play.

The game's engine is extremely inoptimal and can barely render 12 enemies without dropping frames.
The input system is abysmally lacking. Trying to attack after engaging a battle sprite action, getting shocked, using items, getting hit and et cetera will fail, and even moreso if the framerate is low which is when you're surrounded by mobs which is when you need your controls to be the most responsive.
Demonstration of borked input.
Being entirely server-side, it simply can't be a good action game. Good action games reward quick reflexes, and good timing. Latency gets in the way of this. A common example of how Spiral Knights fails at this is trying to block a devilite projectile after you've seen it get thrown. You can press the shield button long before you see the projectile hit you, but server-side you're already dead.
Demonstration of lag ruining shielding.
Invincitinks. That these were implemented and still haven't been removed shows that the developers lack an understanding of what makes a good action game. Having your attacks arbitrarily do no damage takes away the player's feeling of control. You hit your enemy, they didn't get hit. They didn't get hit specifically because you were so good at hitting your enemy. It's like playing a versus fighter against someone, and that someone throws a hissy fit because you keep winning against them, ripping the controller out of your hands and taking his Playstation with him back home. That's invincitinks. Noone involved enjoys it.
Demonstration of invincitinks.
Everything blends together. I tried playing Heart of Ice today. I walked down a blue-ish white road, getting swarmed by white-ish blue greavers, dodging blue and white projectiles. Meanwhile, a blue-ish white devilite hid inside of some white shrubbery and caught me completely by surprise when he threw his blue-ish white axe at me that was moving too fast for my shield to react. This isn't an isolated incident, it's all over the game. Poison areas get green tint. All the enemies in the poison area also get the green tint. The bullets become entirely green. This is not how to do bullet spam! Look at any good shmup and you'll see bullets in glowing primary colours with the backgrounds having much fainter, complemetary colours. The only thing being challenged by Spiral Knights is your ability to strain your eyes.

So what is more challenging content supposed to look like? You can't have a lot of enemies and traps because the engine can't handle that. You can't make your enemies faster because the latency would allow only a select few amount of players who live right next to the servers to play it any well. You can't give the enemies a lot of health because the game punishes you for racking up damage and there would be a wide gulf between the game's handful of high-DPS weapons and the other gear. You can't flood the areas with bullets because bullets blend in with the environment and the latency makes accurate bullet-dodging impossible anyway.

What's left? Mortafires everywhere is what's left. Are you having fun yet?

The game, at its core, is enormously flawed. A lot of these things can be fixed. None of them ever will. These are all fundamental issues that haven't seen any attempt at fixing after the game's been out for nearly three years.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 05:41

Scirio

This is our Odyssey.

Making SK work like a retail game with a multiplayer instead of a multiplayer game with single player optionals would probably fix a lot with the latency.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 05:55

Curious-Mewkat

MMOs can never be a great game because latency is always there and content is always changing, until finally it degrades like a Butler's Curve. And Blah Blah Blah

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 06:04

Reto-Da-Liz

Someone give an award to Zeddy for always being honest, in the good and in the bad.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 06:40

Krakob

Still waiting for your own SK with blackjack and hookers :3

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 06:51

Canine-Vladmir

Worst Case Scenario

OOO shuts Spiral knight down.
They fix it, get a new engine, balance issues.
Slap a retail price of $60USD on it.
No more updates.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 07:04

Krakob

@Canine Vladmir

I'd buy it.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 07:07

Bitsbee

Zeddy, I don't normally go against you, but if you think the game is so broken & flawed, why do you continue to play?

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 07:11

Zeddy

@Bitsbee

What is this 'play'?

Spiral Knights is my instant messaging protocol I use to keep contact with a certain circle of friends.

Spiral Knights is also a very bad instant messaging protocol, but that's for another topic.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 07:25

Bitsbee

So, you only get on to talk to friends?

...Soooo, can I have your stuff?

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 08:00

#10

Draycos

Zeddy, telling it like it is, as always.

I'm inclined to give up myself after all the things I've personally ranted about over and over with no effect.

Easy to leave the game, hard to leave the forums. I'm only here to talk.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 08:01

#11

Vanillateddy

J(*u)~

Well as much as I know this is all correct i wouldn't honestly say that it could never be improved.
So OOO and Sega both have had no interest in fixing what you have described and stated, but of course only because most players dont notice or see these flaws, that or only a small majority see's it and OOO and Sega dont see them.

What else to fear is that as this game moves on they plan to add more content with drunken stadiums and lag causing the difficulty. Well that and those bullets. But honestly even if they were to attempt to fix your issues how long would it take? As i see it OOO is left with the same team they've always had with a few new ones here and there, Sega unwilling to give into the pressure and give more staff because frankly i dont think they believe in the game well enough to do such a thing. Although giving in might actually help rather i see them behind the scenes orchestrating a money grabbing symphony, and its working well~!

So what really needs to be changed?

Heh i dont know if I knew more on how things were done with this game i might say something witty or partially correct that could help ease people into thinking "might work" or "thats not bad" but of course i cant, i could only point out my own opinion on the matter and the information I've read.

@Bitsbee

Even if someone were to "stop playing" why should that make they're gear useless to them?

I dont play nearly as much as i used to, mostly because i cant, i run into the game and i might just lag for centuries without end. Remember those bullets? i dont even see them from the moment they fire to the moment they've hit because well i cant.

It doesn't keep me from enjoying the game and talking though and still thinking about my gear and how to improve even when i do finally get better internet.

But why should i give it away because i dont use it? that's just Dumb, what if i do eventually come back to play with better internet?

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 08:20

#12

Bitsbee

It was a joke.

Stahp bean so srs.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 08:22

#13

Son-Of-Hades

I would probably buy this

I would probably buy this game for a retail price as well if all these fundamental issues were fixed, and the players actually got what they wanted. I honestly think the core gameplay and plot of the story has a ton of potential... if only OOO had the means and determination to improve it... :/

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 09:08

#14

Dragneel-Wiki

Heck I'd pay monthly subscription and have good servers like other games...

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 09:11

#15

Quaquonfaes

@Scirio

I would honestly buy that.
The game's appearance and controlls would make it a better singleplayer game than a multiplayer one.
:/

But I still feel like, they are going to pull the plug someday on this game.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 09:26

#16

Skepticraven

I disagree

From the OP in order of bullets:

1. Game engine ups the minimum computer requirements. I can run laglessly below the minimum computer requirements even in deconstruction zones with 20+ monsters at once. I can do this because I did the research and optimized my computers performance (search for java tweaks on this forum).
2. This is an engine mechanic. Valid point, but I don't see it as a major or minor drawback.
3. I prefer it this way. Java based games pretty much have to be server side. Even non-java based games that are client-side have hacking problems that severely devalue the game's community.
4. Valid point. Although I personally don't notice the invinciticks that everyone talks about. Maybe I'll have to play with my sound higher.
5. Perhaps your screen doesn't have a good enough dynamic color range? I have no problem seeing all the different colors and identifying things. The only thing that occasionally catches me off guard are cloaked chromalisks.

Are the only improvements you see adding more monsters to add difficulty?
I'm hoping they start adding cooperative puzzles into the arcade. Think stone-type buttons where you need one teammate to stand on the button while another goes through a gate to complete a portion of the puzzle. Or even 2 switches that need to be hit at the same time but cannot be done solo. There's a lot of potential with the current engine/mechanics to allot for more challenging aspects.

The major flaw that I see in this game is that endgame is attainable in a fairly short (comparatively to other games) time. When you reach endgame, it becomes too easy and less fun. This is not a good reason to say that its a bad game or will never be a great game.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 09:34

#17

Bitsbee

"4. Valid point. Although I personally don't notice the invinciticks that everyone talks about. Maybe I'll have to play with my sound higher."

I think it's when you try to keep hitting an enemy with a barrier/Shard Bomb(I wouldn't know about Shard Bombs; I currently have a Super Crystal Bomb 3*, but never use it) & they won't take any damage & instead, make "tink" noises, similar to when you attack a Trojan/Deadnaught in the front.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 09:51

#18

Autofire

You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

You know, he's right! O,o

But I still die, anyway. And I don't lag. What's up with that?

EDIT: Reminds me of Linus from peanuts...

"It's a good thumb, but not a great thumb."

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 09:52

#19

Il-Mono-Il

@Son-of-Hades

You're so rich, and so good at LD, why you stole 360 E from my alt? >:(

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 10:00

#20

Bopp

the last point

Good post, but the last point has nothing to do with the other points. It's a simple matter of design and artwork, whereas the other issues are about the deep architecture of the software.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 10:09

#21

Iron-Dragon-Guild

hmmmm

sounds like the OP is either really bad at gaming, has a bad pc, or has a bad connection...and also likes to blame things around him on everything except himself?

i never have any of these 'latency' shielding issues...dont get hit by stuff when i shield in time. my attacks strike the enemy where they are and kill them if the right amount of damage versus hitpoints occurs. i understand the reasoning behind camoflauging enemies in their surroundings....it is the least OOO can do to make this VERY easy game somewhat challenging....besides stuffing small areas with an impossible and unsurpassable amount of baddies....since they nerfed zombies, wolvers that auto-targeted out of teleport, etc...how much easier do you need, to stop whining and wanting somebody to bring you some tissues?

however, i do wish they would make a completely different style of levels though...instead of small pathways and / or rooms that just get crammed with obstacles(monsters, traps w/e..)....maybe try more larger open areas with singular very difficult mini-bosses and only a few minions to support them.

overall, i think Spiral Knights is a pretty well-made game(try to remember what it was like before you conquered most of the content..), and not just a chat / message board....which you can do outside of SK in steam by itself....

anyway....maybe go back to analyzing and scrutinizing and blaming everything....even though i doubt it will make anybody a better player. see your corpse as i walk on by it down the yellow brick road.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 10:49

#22

Corewalker

Actually, Dragon, hiss-

Zeddy is pretty good at the game. He's probably gone insane from boredom and has taken to using otherwise inconvenient/useless bombs in a useful manner, hiss.

So, it would be unreasonable to assume, as I believe you are, that this is a temper tantrum created from lack of skill, hiss.

That being said, I don't agree with you, Zeddy. the game may have its lag/graphic heavy moments, but those things do not stand in the way of its being a great game.

I wish the content updates were more frequent (or at the very least more frequently talked about, we're a month overdue on the gunner things), but I'm enjoying myself while I wait by partying with newer players, hiss.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 10:57

#23

Mysteryzx

slight flaws

My LAPTOP could handle spawning every single zombie in the middle room of depth 25 in FSC AND have them all on screen with no lag whatsoever on high graphics, so I doubt it's the game engine that can't handle enemy spawns...

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 10:59

#24

Draycos

I'm probably going to quit the forums if they don't listen to community feedback in the Gunner Update. They haven't plenty of times before, but I need to draw a line somewhere or I'll keep wasting my time.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 11:19

#25

Retequizzle

The only part I don't

The only part I don't explicitly agree with is your concept of "invincitinks" and your comparison to that of versus fighters, which I can only assume you meant something directly in relation to fighting games, which do actually have the same concept in order to prevent overpowering your opponent just by a sheer volume of attacks. That might be because the description you gave is a little loose in my opinion, so I'm typing this out under the assumption you were referring to arcade fighters and not something else.

A lot of fighter games (MvC3, UMvC3, Super Street Fighter 4, Tekken, etc.) all incorporate some concept of invincibility frames becoming more prominent as the combo continues. Now, my inclusion of MvC3 as well as UMvC3 (and really, Street Fighter series as well since all of which are produced by Capcom) might seem arbitrary, since they're kind of the same game at the core in terms of the engine and game components - team of three vs. team of three, beat all three characters on the other team before time expires, the whole nine yards in that regard. But there's actually quite a bit in terms of safeguards to prevent things like infinite combos (a complete focus for UMvC3, since the original version had at least 6-8 different infinite combos you could do to simply lock your opponent down until time expires). Some of the safeguards for that are the inclusion of deteriorating hit stun to prevent the aforementioned scenario, block stun deterioration (same thing, but applies to blocking the attacks by guarding and the amount of time you'll be in that "guarding" state), varying knockdown times, and so on. There's a lot that goes into it, but we'd be here a while if I covered all of that.

For now, I'll just explain hit stun since based of what I read from your post, that would be the best way to go about comparing it. Hit stun is basically the recoil from receiving an attack - in all fighters, the player will flinch for a certain amount of time after taking the hit (usually nothing over a fraction of a second), which allows an opening for further hits to connect. As the combo continues, the game introduces the concept of "hit stun deterioration", meaning the attacking player has less of a window to make the hit connect before the combo resets, allowing the defending player a chance to at least fight back. There's many instances where allowing for the hit stun deterioration to reset is ideal, since as the combo continues, in most cases the damage scales down to a percentage of what it would do if it were the very first move in the combo. Relating this back to Spiral Knights, the best way to explain this concept would be if you were to execute a certain amount of hits with a weapon in a manner that the game would consider "too fast", be it as a blanket concept applied to all weapons, or just by that weapon in particular. The former of these options is likely not the case, since the Blitz Needle can dole out, what, 18 hits with a charge shot I believe? And will usually allow for a majority of those hits to connect assuming you're point blank, since Blitz charges have a conic area of effect. I'll be honest in my statement that I have no clue if this applies to bombs, and since I know that's what you're known for, I'll leave that for you to determine for yourself.

But in essence, "invincitinks" are probably as close to "hit stun" that Java would allow for with the current game setup. To that end, I would agree that the inclusion of it isn't ideal, but I would also disagree that it directly limits the game's playability - if I could just chain attacks together to the point that it gets monotonous, I'd be more bored than I am now with having to limit what I can do to a single enemy before the game says it's too much. Yes, it's an artificial longevity that is included in the game that, as I said before, isn't ideal. But it's better than the other option of making the game too fast-paced to be enjoyed. Now, if the enemy strength, such as HP, defense, whatever, then I'd concede the point entirely. The only way I could think that block stun would be comparable would be for instances in PvP where guardian shields can abuse the frames of haze bombs to essentially lock themselves in place, making it harder for enemies to hit the guardian shield with a sword, gun or bomb and basically live longer that way. Anywhere else in the game where a shield would "tick" repeatedly like that would be Seraphynx's Disintegrating Ray, haze bombs against front-guard enemies, and the like.

Feel free to let me know if I hit anywhere near what you were getting at - even as I finish typing this out, the point's still kind of muddled to me so yeah.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 11:49

#26

Feyi-Feyi

I have to agree Zeddy.
Spiral knights has always been a great concept, held back by the flaws of its build.
If they ever do plan to redo all of it, and slap a 60$ price tag on it: count me in.

This game has a great community though, which apart from LD, keeps me here.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 13:18

#27

Skayeth

Slap a 60$ price tag?

Those who study economy and logic like me would agree that if SK would put a 60$ price tag, it would go bankrupt, and no one would play. Imagine how many players in one Haven!

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 13:49

#28

Midnight-Dj

:| @Zeddy

Plz, don't take so much dump on this game, it is not made by some big company like Valve or EA, it is merely an indie-game, and compare to some other small studio made MMOs, Spiral knight is impressive in both anestheric and environment. And as for all its flaws, I find beauty in them.

Here is a few points I want to make clear, to Zeddy and to everyone else.
-SK is never meant to be an Action game, it is meant to be an advanture game, that was what the developers originally intended.
-No game is perfect, I can pick bones out of elder scroll V: skyrim and tell you how overratted it is, SK has its flaws, and it might just slightly overweight the Pros.
-The puzzles in SK are never meant to take ages to solve (except for the ones in grasping pleatue, which IMO, takes way to long to solve considering there is an invincible moster following you.) They are meant to serve as a time waster, to let players to stay in a level for longer.
-The level theme matches its enemies, you don't want to go into a freeze fiend level only to find yourself fighting a bunch of fire devilites fright? The colour of the starting environment are meant to help the knight to choose the proper dress for the party.
-Mortar fires every where? Well, atleast OCH wasn't a darkfang thwaker shooting gallour, they actaully implemented good levels and a challenging final boss.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 14:06

#29

Jammy-Jam

Weird post. This game has some flaws but overall it's [scrapping] awesome. Zeddy, despite all your complaints I have a feeling you agree.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 14:09

#30

Zeddy

Demonstration of invincitinks.
Demonstration of borked input.
Demonstration of lag ruining shielding.

@Retequizzle
Blitz Needle, Alchemers and Brandishes do not have any kind of hit limit. It's only present on Shard Bombs, Seraphinx' laser and the status barriers as far as I'm aware. In for former case it was definitely not warranted.

@Mysteryzx
The D25 room works fine for me as well. I don't know what exactly causes the major framedrops, but I experience them in the most crowded of rooms in shadow lairs, and in general during a couple of the danger missions. What's your framerate like at the bridge right before Seerus in OCH? Where the camera pans forward?

@Iron-Dragon-Guild
I don't claim to be some kind of expert at videogames, but my senses are not, in fact, broken.

Here's a random screenshot I took from Heart of Ice. Zoom all the way out before looking at it. How many entities can you spot? How far do you have to zoom in before you can distinguish all of them? It should be about 27, including the player, the Battle Sprite and the currently airborne projectile. Could you keep track of all of those at any given time during combat? Maybe you could, maybe you couldn't. What do I know. I'm just some guy with a bad PC who's really bad at gaming, so those greavers would probably take me by surprise.

Meanwhile, let's look at a random screenshot of a shmup. Oh... this one. Or maybe this one.

My browser is not capable of zooming out far enough for me to not have a perfect grasp on where every single one of those bullets are. I can't really be bothered counting them, they probably number in the hundreds, but it's really clear where they all are regardless. If I get hit by those bullets, it'll all be entirely my fault.

I've got a video linked in this very post where I demonstrate taking a hit from a devilite projectile despite shielding it. Yes, my net connection is not the best, and I live fairly remotely compared to the servers, but it wouldn't have to be a problem if the game was just locally hosted.

Anyways, that's a really nice dong you have there. Thanks for waving it at me.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 14:35

#31

Xtweeterx

Wow

This is basically everyone's complaints mashed into one thread. No new content (Please go here), [BLARP]ed up hit system (Just be quiet and concentrate and play), too much lag (get better internet unless graphics or memory), balance (this is just brain cancer to me as it's been said more than a million times)...

I'm sorry, but that's all I can see from this. I'm sorry.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 14:42

#32

Feyi-Feyi

I love how so much people

I love how so much people feel almost directly attacked.
I think what you're all missing here is that all the things Zeddy is talking about have been know for a long, long, long time.
The scary part is that there is seemingly no incentive from the dev's side to fix ANYTHING.

We have people pointing out pretty much every flaw in the game, presenting it to OOO only to see it ignored.
The suggestions sub forum? Great stuff in there but all in vain.

This might seem like a harsh thread, but it's for a harsh truth.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 14:44

#33

Corewalker

I understand, hiss.

Squeaky wheel gets the oil, no?

Obviously some things are broken (Radiants, if there is not some future patch that will return them to another playin- maybe challenge mode?!)

As long as it's done properly with detailed descriptions, the devs need to know, hiss.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 14:45

#34

Raunwynn

Raise the minimum wage!

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 14:58

#35

Xtweeterx

@Feyi

The Devs to read everything everyone says. Reading =/= responding to each and every one. Fixing things late is better than not fixing them at all, AIR? (Am I right).

Besides, I've been here since about after 3 days after beta ended. I play SK FOR FUN. if I see something wrong I'll report it with a bug report or support ticket (screenshot of me trapped in shadow fire coming soon. There was also times I couldn't move from one single tile after crafting something. No lag, so quiet). If I'm having internet problems, I'll check my wireless WI-FI, if it's graphics, I'll ask my dad to check the graphics and memory or dig up a new processor or graphics card we might have. (TL;DR: If I "lag" I'll check both sides instead of one. They can BOTH be internet and ping and graphics and frames you know). What all of this does not mean is that I'll go onto the forums and complain about them. I.E: the hitbox system (though there was times I was literally to a Trojan's right kidney and it was STILL able to smash me), or about new content (see the hyperlink in my previous post. As long as I know there's new content in the future, I've nothing to worry about), damage and balance (again, brain cancer. Everything is fine the way it is (except Acheron)), radiant crystals (Seerusly. Stop whining and buy them with CE, go to a Shadow lair on Elite, or do OCH).

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 15:05

#36

Bitsbee

"radiant crystals (Seerusly. Stop whining and buy them with CE..."

If I read correctly somewhere in this Forum, buying Radiants to Level Up a 5* Item to Lvl10 would take approximately $25 worth of Energy.

"go to a Shadow lair on Elite..."

Not everyone is able to goto/survive in Shadow Lairs.

"or do OCH."

Not everyone has this DLC(though, I would highly recommend it to anyone).

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 15:41

#37

Iron-Dragon-Guild

only the Devs know for sure

borked input - no online game responds 100% accurately 100% of the time. i've played several online games with much devotion, including some league play in 1. if you've ever tried to throw a grenade in some online 1st person shooter games...you just get a hand motion and no throw sometimes....sucks, yes...but happens and deal with it....a must.

lagged shielding - seems to me you shield late. instead of when the enemy 1st shows signs of throwing projectile i.e. the glow of the start of throw is when i usually shield. i figure, as in real life..it takes a milisecond to actually raise a shield from scratch and i've never had a problem effectively shielding in this game if i shield when the enemy 1st starts their attack.

invincitinks - perhaps, like in dice rolling games, there are other factors determining whether or not every strike connects with 100% dmg. maybe the enemies have defense bonuses or saving throws so to speak. there could be many reasons including the internet connection not 100% in the packets sent / recieved. also, maybe the weapon used has a limit on how much damage it can dish out, which may or may not match the graphic attack...might be the start of the cooldown in final part of attack, i really dont know about the seraphinx because i dont have one.

searching for perfection will only lead to stress and broken hearts. enjoy what is presented and try to see the cup as 1/2 full..especially when the drink is on the house.....my only advice here. good luck in figuring it all out. peace.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 15:28

#38

Zenial

Seraphynx

The invincitinks on Seraphynx are outrageously annoying. They literally do not allow my sprite to finish its attack, and every time I use the Ray of Light attack, I get to hear the wonderful sound of tinking. I got the Seraphynx because I actually LIKED the Ray of Light attack, but now, I get to see it stop short every time I apply it. If Invincitinks were removed, (at least on the Seraphynx) I'd be a much happier player. And person.

- Araliaggtwo :3

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 15:29

#39

Sirius-Voltbreaker

Your Voltedge isn't safe.

In what way are you encouraging players to like this game?
In what way are you helping the community?
In what way are you making the game better?
In what way are you making the game worse?
You should think about this before you make a thread like this. If you actually liked this game you probably wouldn't have made this. You are not helping to make the game better, you are not encouraging players to like this game, you are not helping the community. You are making the game worse.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 16:30

#40

Sandwich-Potato

...

Zeddy is absolutely right.

Sirius, are you kidding me?

...you are not helping the community.

This coming from you. So much irony, I could make a Trojan Horshoe or 2 hundred.

In what way are you making the game worse?

He isn't. He's just pointing out the truth before it catches everyone off guard.

In what way are you making the game better?

I, for one, am now able to realize how little time games like these will last. Far better to know it'll end soon than to wake up one day and think "Where the heck-deckle did Spiral Knights go?"

Iron-Dragon-Guild: instead of when the enemy 1st shows signs of throwing projectile i.e. the glow of the start of throw is when i usually shield.

Except that sometimes you don't have that much time. What are you going to do, accept the fact that crowds of Devilities with different attack timers are unbeatable? Or when you're using a sword combo on an enemy. When the enemy's about to attack, are you going to stop your combo, or finish it to disrupt the attack?

XtweeterX: damage and balance (again, brain cancer. Everything is fine the way it is (except Acheron))

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. OH HAAHAHAHAHAHAHA. HAAA. HAAAHAAAHAAAAAA. You really fooled me there for a se...

...You're serious about that? Here, might I introduce you to the Blitz Needle, the Chaos items, the Shard Bombs, the Barriers, the Cautery Sword (cause it's lahk so op, right?), the Rigadoon and Flamberge lines, the Volcanic Pepperbox, the Leviathan Blade, the Cold Iron Vanquisher, the entire Brandish line, the Mad Bomber Set compared to Chaos, monster AI, the Salamander line, and the Troika/Suduruska?

(Seerusly. Stop whining and buy them with CE, go to a Shadow lair on Elite, or do OCH).

First of all, that pun is overused. Try some variety. Here, I'll go an entire post using axe puns.

AXEtually, Twitter, it costs several dollars to fully heat one five star item with Radiants from the Depot, not everyone can do a Shadow Lair on Elite and not waste all their money, and not everyone has OCH or feels like grinding to 3200 Energy for it.

Man, it's been so long since I had to resort to such drAXEstic lengthy posts. That's a fAXE. Now I'm hungry. Going to eat some snAXE.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 16:33

#41

Skayeth

GUYS!

CALM DOWN GUYS! Personal attacks with end up in the Ban Prison! Calm down! Put this under the river along with the hope of SK ever being friendly and let's all post on the forums according to the topics as if nothing had happened!

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 16:36

#42

Sirius-Voltbreaker

Your Voltedge isn't safe.

Well... You should know I am an extreeme hypocrit. Like EXTREEM.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 16:36

#43

Whimsicality

Spiral Knights can never have no flaws would be a more appropriate title, but it's clear everyone else is making Zeddy's post out to be as a personal attack on the community.

In spite of the game's flaws, I can say I still enjoy the game, and personally think it's great. Yes, there are flaws. But I can see past most because I enjoy the game enough. It's clear that these "minor nitpicks" are adding up and lowering Zeddy's opinion of the game. Ahh, yes. There's the magic word. Opinion.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 16:43

#44

Skayeth

@Whim

Opinion influences and runs life....literally. :P

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 17:56

#45

Xtweeterx

@Sandwich-Potato

What you said about pointing out chaos set and all the weapons just proved my point even more just by simply mentioning all those things, and that balance complaints are indeed brain cancer, that, and you have no real explanation how all the things you stated are unbalanced. I just lost one more brain cell thanks to you. Enjoy your irony of the day /me tips non-existant chapeau of the blue rose at Sandwich-Potato.

If you REALLY want a clarification, they don't call it "chaos"for nothing, it's meant for daring strikers who like to get in, do what they can and GTFO without a hitch. And the negative resistances are high stakes.

"Rigadoon and Flamberges"? What? They're a side grade as less damage for debuffs.

Levi's spin attack is MEANT to do 300+ damage since it already does 300+ damage by itself. It rewards huge damage for a good hit. Thought about that? No? I didn't think so.

Shard bombs? I never used or seen those in action so I can't really speak. They explosion/mini explosions COMBINED IN THE RIGHT SPOT do that. Think of it as sweetspotting/meatshotting. TL;DR: Alchemers for bombers. Or just keep your secret sympathy of the old Radiant Sun Shards to yourself.

Troika? That's... I can't speak for it either. Heavy damage for ASD? /shrug.

VP? How is that unbalanced? It does less damage than the blitz for, here we go again, debuffs. Same for the plague needle. Point blank range.

CiV? Less damage to MONSTERS THAT ARE NOT UNDEAD and grants huge damage against undeads in general. Unless it gives the equivalent of the Levi to anything, then I guess you actually proved something. I don't have it so I can't speak either.

It's not my fault I like using puns that I like. I know for a fact not everyone can afford radiants, shadow keys, or get out of SLs alive. It's just viable solutions to helpfully help them in the slightest. Also, what do you mean by "money"? You mean crowns or real money? because you can get CE for crowns you know and vise versa, if the CE economy would stop being so stupid.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 16:52

#46

Zenial

I have a CIV and I barely use it anymore.

The first 5* weapon I ever got was the CiV, and although it looks great, and is nice for Vana farming, I really don't use it anymore, unless I don't have a specific damage type weapon I need. It's like a filler, mostly for an elemental sword... The only way I'd use it is for the charge, on gun puppies in Vana, or to clear large groups of Slags. I'd rather use my Prisma Driver or Silversix. Even with an Ultra/max dmg vs the undead, it doesn't really do much.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 16:53

#47

Skayeth

No offense

No offense, Potato, but I think Xtweeterx just dealt a FLAWLESS VICTORY. FATALITY! You got served. ;D

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 16:55

#48

Feyi-Feyi

Oh sirius, in between your

Oh sirius, in between your posts here and a thread asking who hates you because your silly attempts at trolling
You're really the first person I wouldn't mind being forum banned just for being mildly frosty.
Take Tweety and Anilaton with you on the way out will you?

:)
:)
:)

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 16:56

#49

Skayeth

Feyi

Feyi's 3 happy faces almost make his post look friendly.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 17:01

#50

Whimsicality

If Zeddy's prior testing should be held as standard, a status is trade off for 20% damage. Testing and comparing values shows Blitz Needle does way more damage against Neutral Targets than Volcanic Pepperbox, even if you were to remove the status from VP and give it a 20% damage boost.

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Spiral Knights can never be a great game