Spiral Knights - A simpler rework for Battle Sprites (compared to my last rework thread) based on the new buff drops

A simpler rework for Battle Sprites (compared to my last rework thread) based on the new buff drops

7 replies [Last post]

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 21:14

Draycos

Because right now, those buffs... they're way too powerful.

Instead, I propose that they become linked to Battle Sprites.

Drakon gets movement speed, the staple of Strikers and front-line fighters. Maskeraith gets damage, the advantage of a Recon, similar to their death-marks. Seraphynx gets extra defense, the selling point of the Guardian.

I'm worried that simply making them passives would defeat the purpose of limiting them. Instead, they should be tied to specific skills, their second abilities in particular. This would prevent newer players from being too confused the moment they get their Sprite, and allow players to enjoy more complex gameplay before they reach T3.

Flame Barrier gets the peed bonus of Backfire Barrier, but toned down and with more duration, similar to the current Speed Boosts.
Heart Attack gets the defense bonus of Iron Heart Attack, made stronger but limited to the caster. Shadow Cloak gets the damage bonus of Deadly Cloak- but not the speed.

I understand there are several problems with this, namely:
-The mimicked abilities need some changes, but aren't totally obsolete.
-The Battle Sprite missions need more textual information before you're given your starter Sprite.
-There would be very little incentive to use the first and third skills.

So I'll discuss them piece by piece.

-These skills would have to be tweaked. Backfire Barrier could offer a longer or more intense speed boost. Iron Heart Attack could stay the same as it is now, increasing the caster's defense further and boosting the defenses of their teammates. [Speaking out of context of the thread, Violent Heart Attack should drop damage boosts on-kill. This would also mean Frenzied Firestorm should get a tweak to only give ASI- and more of it.] Deadly Cloak should grant CTR [and Vengeful Cloak should give the old ASI along with the stun-explosion].

-...which requires time. Not as much as mechanical changes, but, still.

-This is the part where I write a wall of text about how universal cooldowns should be removed, but you've heard this over and over in my bigger Sprite thread.

As a whole, I think these changes are far less difficult to make than the ones I proposed in /node/85499, but still give some needed life to Sprites, allowing them to mimic their "classes" better and generally impact the game more.

And now I wait for someone to tell me why something in this thread is a bad idea, and why- please do. I want this idea to improve, not be ignored, because the absurd power players get by having all three bonuses from the drops in the live server all but invalidates anything Sprites do that isn't utility.

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 09:45

Thunder-The-Bright

gods ain't gonna help you, son.

all right then.
first up, I have schorching barrier and you said nothing about it.
secondly, this could be reworked as you mentioned, but I feel like the boosts should just be rarer, so that they aren't that reliable to give knights a great advantage.

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 12:30

Draycos

Scorching Barrier wouldn't be changed. It'd have the basic stats of the new FB and still have its extra orbs.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 02:11

Blitzsonic

No, i like movement speed and

No, i like movement speed and i don't think that other players can afford a new battlesprite and level that up instead. The orb drop is ok, sure they give strong +bonuses, but it doesn't last forever, so... Msi for strikers doesn't work that well, because you stop on each sword swing, it's the best for bombers. With this you are forcing people to buy different sprites for different bonuses, keep the orb drops so everyone can get every orb.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 07:00

Midnight-Dj

Well for start the buff drops are completely rushed and is a defining example of inconsideration of OOO, the drops made the sprite more uselss than they already are, I am a one bar gamer and yes, my maskeriath hates me more than he hates his captors. IDK why, but shouldn't there be a simpler solution to this?

My idea:
Instead of making all these changes on the sprites, why not make the buffs into consumables? I personally dislike the speed boost due to it breaks my rhythm during combat and lag+MSI=death (you should know that and yes, I am a loot **** and I want to pcik up anything on the ground). If you make these buffs into optional consumables and remove the pick up-able barriers, it will make the drakon's fire barrier viable once again without ever have to fix anything. Noobs with no/weak sprites can always save up these consumables when the time has come that they need the buff, giving the SK gameplay alot more strategy to it (and of course making it fairer for the new players who don't have lvl100 sprites).

"But by making buffs into consumables, you are making sprites obsolete."

Well, sprites have always meant to be the icing on the cake, it is just there for the look, sure, it can help you at time but not to a TIDE turning extent (by buffing them you are basically forcing players to get certain pets for their OP skills to win the game). Players in SK should be allowed not to have a sprite during mission, it is their freedom to decide what to do with the pet and how they would play the game. The pickupable buffs allow players to conserve those defense or attack buffs for arenas and danger rooms. Allow them to stay on par with those players who uses sprite perks (which is the only reason why I ever got the pet IMO)

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 09:04

Zeddy

I would like a sprite named "Press sprite skill 1 to get that lovely 30 second speed boost. It has a 60 second cooldown".

I wouldn't need to be able to do anything else. It wouldn't even need perks.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 10:08

Draycos

@Zeddy
That's the thing, though! It's just too darn good. If a Sprite ever comes out that has the sole purpose of buffing your Knight as opposed to doing other things, that's probably going to be the be-all end-all Sprite.. Tying some sort of buff to a skill that has a real, mechanical use would be much more interesting.

The big question is, what buffs might the next two Sprites give, if any at all? Drakon would be movespeed/attack speed, Maskeraith would be damage/attack speed/CTR, and Seraphynx is defense/CTR/shield regen.

That adds up to
-1 movespeed
-2 attack speed
-1 damage
-2 CTR
-1 shield regen
-1 defense

To me, it feels like the next two should be something other than ASI/CTR...

@Blitzsonic
You're telling me multiple things with your post.
-You don't understand how incredibly powerful Knights themselves are right now, able to get all 3 boosts just by random drops, and would like to keep it that way. I think this detracts from the game.
-You don't understand how movespeed could benefit a sword user so much. Positioning is much more important for swords (in general, not all the time), especially when you're singling out enemies. This means guns benefit from it the least, which fits extremely well with the "front-line fighter" ideas.
-You don't see the point in having to choose your Sprite. The entire point of Sprites was to spice up gameplay by giving people a choice in 'class', or Battle Sprite. Drakon is Striker, Maskeraith is Recon, Seraphynx is Guardian.

The purpose of this suggestion is to improve the "class" system- cut a little power from Knights and give it to Sprites.

@Midnight

"usables"
No, it won't. In fact, that'd make the buffs even more powerful than they already are, since you can save them for bigger fights and use them on-command. That, and it'd make almost every Vial and Barrier that doesn't have "shock", "poison", or "curse" in their name even more obsolete than they already are.

"Sprites are the icing on the cake, not actually important."
Copied from a message above: Drakon is Striker, Maskeraith is Recon, Seraphynx is Guardian.

The purpose of this suggestion is to improve the "class" system- cut a little power from Knights and give it to Sprites.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 02:07

Midnight-Dj

"The purpose of this suggestion is to improve the "class" system- cut a little power from Knights and give it to Sprites."

Umm, I am not sure, but shouldn't it work more like this (not trolling, but would a 'striker' really want a 'striker pet' as a pet)?
The knight who wanna play as a striker won't use Drakon, because he/she need to be able to tank hits, they would choose seraphynx for more health.
The knight who wanna play as a guardian won't use seraphnx, because he/she is a big target and is bound to get cornered, so maskeriath would help them avoid skolver clones much easier and if he is revealed he can take the clones head on with the help of death mark/hexing haze.
The knight who wanna play as a recon won't use maskeriath, because once he/she is revealed they need to take out their spotter fast, so they will choose drakon to use fire barriers and fireblast to increase the damage output.

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A simpler rework for Battle Sprites (compared to my last rework thread) based on the new buff drops