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Hard monsters/easy monsters

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Thu, 05/26/2011 - 10:17
Sirrocco
Legacy Username

Just thought I'd give people a place to chat about which monsters you find hard, which you find easy, and why. Figure it's a place to boast, complain, and possibly give out or pick up a few tips.

About me: Full Ash Tail set (4*), swiftstrike buckler (3*), Vile Striker(4*), Voltech alchemer(2*). Currently playing tier 2, mostly soloing, not yet good enough to solo the jelly king, but plenty good enough to solo up to him. I pick and choose my tier 2 arenas, and generally avoid tier 2 danger rooms.

Constructs: most constructs are easy. Constructs in *large* numbers and cramped spaces can be a threat, but anything in those conditions can be - I switch over to the alchemer and go for kiting and short wall/pit abuse. Slow movement + vulnerable to elemental = no problem. Gun puppies and their ilk can be a bit more trouble, if there are a lot of them or they're not the only thing I have to deal with, but the striker takes them out up close pretty quickly, and the alchemer is pretty good at handling them with shoot-and-scoot.

Undead: the little cat-ghosts are trivial as anything other than distractions (though they can get to be pretty distracting). They have a long safe time after they move+attack, and they die quickly to concentrated focus from the striker. Zombies, I generally kite if I can, and that works well on them for the same reasons it works well on the constructs. Handling zombies up close can be a bit riskier. Spectres are a pain but dealable - at least when soloing, when I only have to deal with one of them. The moths (I *think* they're undead) are easy enough in moderate-sized groups (just shield, then unleash once they finish attacking) but can get to be a real problem if there are enough of them that a single barrage breaks through my shield and/or there's a significant amount of incoming fire from other things on the field

Jellies: super-lichens in the bottom of tier 2 can be a bit problematic, and if someone messes up and electrifies a pack of quicksilvers it's pretty much all over, but otherwise it's pretty trivial. Step in, slash a few times, and shield-and-out before their react-initiate-attack cycle finishes. Repeat.

Fiends: I'm working my way through figuring out how to do these guys efficiently. I currently have a bad habit of making sure that all of the little fiends get hit by pit bosses and then all of the yes-men see their boss die. It gets me in trouble sometimes. I'm hoping to some day get good enough at dealing with them that it's a good habit instead. I do enjoy how the fiends seek to trap you with greed. The horse knights, on the other hand, are a serious problem for me. The alchemer is basically useless, and I haven't figured out a good way to use the striker all that effectively either. When I get one, I generally clear out the rest of the room first, and then hope to get lucky while dancing around.

Gremlins: it all depends on which kinds and how many. Flamers are pretty easy, bombers are annoying (especially if I'm being chased by a bunch of warriors at the time), healers go down delightfully fast when I can actually get them away from the pack but can be problematic when surrounded, and warriors are easy enough by themselves, but a bit of trouble in packs - particularly when they're serving as a distraction from somethign else that I need to kill first.

Beasts: chameleons are delightfully tasty. Wolvers are likewise tasty when in relatively small numbers, but start taking a serious toll on my HPs when in largish numbers and confined areas - especially since that generally means they have an alpha or two.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 10:35
#1
Teferi's picture
Teferi
I most consistently have

I most consistently have difficulty with the last level of Arenas and the Gun Puppy stage on Tier 2, and Gremlins in Danger Rooms on floors 14 - 18 (The ones where the healers can put up an invulnerable shield) although I once got swarmed by a pack of Greavers (they're the moth thingies, and they're Fiends) and died before I know what'd happened.

I still make several noob mistakes that I'm aware of, but I always seek out Danger Rooms and Arenas so that I can learn to rectify this, and move on.
A big part of my issue is actually my shield - I'm using a Horned Owlite shield, and I'm finding it dying a *little* bit sooner than I need it to, which, especially against the Gunpuppies, can lead to taking a lot more damage than I'd like.

The Fiends can be surprisingly damaging, too... I've been using a Magnus, which is pretty excellent for dealing with them, but you still need to get your shield up ASAP... their projectiles are *damn* fast. I find they really put one's spacial awareness to the test.

I used to have no difficulty dodging the Spectre's charged attack... and for some reason, am almost unable to do so now, which totally sucks.
Still, it drops pretty easily, though is frustrating to repeatedly face.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 11:58
#2
lawlz
Legacy Username
I'll just mention the ones

I'll just mention the ones worth mentioning, the ones I don't mention are trivial

Here is a list from most difficult to the least:

Grievers - These can easily wipe a group if not handled properly. Shock Grievers and Freeze Grievers are the worse as they can outrun and immobilize a knight. The other grievers aren't as bad as you can still function after getting hit. The order of difficulty is Shock > Freeze > Stun > Fire > Poison. In a regular floor, they should be freed and pulled separately if possible because in a big group, there is no way to properly interrupt them all. In an arena, they should simply be zerged down, even if one or two people have to sacrifice themselves to do it, as leaving them up would result in an eventual death for the entire party anyway.

Slimes - While Lichens aren't that bad and can easily be handled when merged, their counter parts can pose a huge problem. The hardest one in the family is probably Quicksilver. These will become immune to damage and move at an incredible speed, killing everything including other mobs, knights, and even themselves. The Toxilargos are the next on difficulty as their piercing spin will decimate a party when they are amassed in a danger room. And finally, Oilers are fairly easy to deal with unless they are grouped with other mobs or idiotic knights who light them on fire. When lit, Oilers become harder than even Quicksilvers.

Gremlins - I will only mention t3 as the other versions are trivial. T3 gremlins are annoying as they can only be attacked from the front and are usually grouped up. While not hard, their numbers and defenses makes it frustrating to dispatch.

Wolvers - Like gremlins, they are generally grouped up as well and are frustrating to deal with even though they are not hard.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 12:20
#3
Niramu
Legacy Username
Wolvers fall to bombs.

A freeze vaporizer takes out almost all forms of wolvers with relative ease, and any bomber finds wolvers a tasty treat; they will always charge the bomber, who can set down, run away, and repeat as necessary. Fiery Vaporizers work well on anything not easily trapped by freezing. Large groups of wolvers almost demand a decent bomber to handle them.

I'm inclined to agree that Grievers are the worst to deal with. They tend to cause problems for most parties, and are especially annoying since I've been frozen with shield up when an ally got hit by one while standing too close. They die pretty easily to blaster/vaporizer kiting, though, so they're more problematic when you're running with Leeroooyyy Jeeennnkiiinns.

I have the hardest time dealing with swarms of the devilites. I was never any good at bullet hell games, and the little suckers can litter a room (literally) very easily in numbers. Seems Leeroy has a place, after all. I'm just not good at berzerking.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 12:27
#4
Gigafreak
Legacy Username
To fight Devilites: Yes-Men

To fight Devilites:

Yes-Men cannot attack. Pit Bosses also cannot attack.
Pit Bosses can either give a promotion to a little Devilite (turning it into a frenzied, furious and hostile Overtimer), or give it a promotion (turning it into a Yes-Man).
If a Pit Boss dies, another Devilite in that room will transform into a Pit Boss and any nearby Yes-Men will turn into hostile and angry Overtimers.
The solution is to kill the little ones first, keep the Pit Bosses away from them with shield-shoving or knockbacks. Killing the Pit Bosses first is an exercise in futility, as a regular Devilite will take his place each time you kill one. Killing the Yes-men first is unhelpful because they, like the Pit Bosses, are incapable of hurting you. Get the hostile Devilites first, then get the Yes-men second, then get the Pit Bosses last! And hope your teammates don't assume "bigger = dangerous," because killing the Pit Bosses first is counterproductive. Doing so means you're punching at an enemy with a bigger lifebar, with the result of removing a REGULAR, WEAKER, SMALL Devilite from the field in the end. Just go for the

The heal-moth (Silkwing) is actually a Fiend-type creature. It's weak to Piercing. A Flourish will dispatch it merrily. (Flourish will dispatch Devilites merrily too, given that you can't really hit them too well with guns.)

If you have bombs, you can plant one in front of a Trojan, then circle behind him so that his back is facing the bomb. If you have a teammate, just remember that he can only face one of you at a time-- the other guy has to slip behind him and bash the weakpoint. (Preferably with a Piercing weapon-- hello again, Flourish!-- but the Calibur's charged attack will delightfully shred him too.)

The "Spectre" (Phantom) can pass through walls, but his charged attack can't. You can duck behind a headstone to be safe from those big projectiles. (In Tier 3, he fires three of them in a spread so you can't just sidestep it.) They are susceptible to Stun and Freeze-- with a Freezing Atomizer or Shivermist, you can re-freeze them and keep them locked down indefinitely while the rest of the team runs forward to clear out the zombies for good crowns and heat. (GREAT crowns and heat, if it's the second half of that tier.)

Wolvers are weak to Piercing, but due to the vast majority of those weapons being projectile-based, they auto-dodge all piercing attacks that aren't the Flourish (I like this thing). When an Alpha is getting ready to bite down on you, don't block unless you're using a Plate shield! They can chomp right through anything else! Just run directly away from them, and charge up your counterattack. Do not stop running until after the third bite has come out, and missed. THEN punish them.

Tier 3 Gremlin Menders can shield themselves just like a player can, and revive other defeated Gremlins. Just in case you didn't hate them enough already.

Retrodes (laser androids) have surprisingly good tracking and long reach on their melee attack. Don't bother trying to dodge it-- just block it instead.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 14:14
#5
Senshi
Legacy Username
Alternatively...

If you can kill them quickly enough, kill all the pit bosses first, and your overtimers will get promoted into harmlessness, and pretty soon you're just beating on big blue pinatas. Or you can do it as Gigafreak says. However, don't have a party mix these two strategies or you'll just end up getting hurt more, focus on one way or the other!

If you have a sealed sword line or a calibur, you can knock retrodes back far enough that dodging their melee is reasonable - just make sure to hit -twice- if you're using calibur. That second strike that knocks things 'too far' for the third strike of the combo to hit? Yeah. It's good for knocking retrodes (and zombies among others) back for enough to dodge much more easily. Of course, sealed sword line just has ferocious knockback on the first strike and with retrodes at least you don't want to use the second strike in case another one uses the ranged attack on you.

Grievers are a pain. Watch for the almost-invisible status-haze ring they make and don't unshield inside it. I mix it up a lot fighting them... back away shooting my elemental alchemer at them, shield bump them when they dodge in, beat on them quickly with my sword when I can get one alone. Freeze bombs help of course, if they don't swoop right out of the freeze circle. If you have a freeze or fire bomber in your group, this is an important time to direct your shield-bump and knockback effects helpfully! Or even just run into the bomber's next area of affect circle if they are latched onto you. They seem to really require a flexible approach mixing up tactics depending on how many there are and the angles they are coming at you from. (Ok, if you're still in T2... you probably don't appreciate the pain of grievers. T2 grievers are easy, relatively speaking.)

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 14:23
#6
Icee's picture
Icee
Griefing Greavers!

In order of difficulty for me (with Heavy demo helm and suit and wise owlite shield with UV low shadow for defense - so I'm short on shadow protection):

Greavers are the hardest for me. If I can get them to attack me one at a time, I tend to try to play paddle-ball with them with my flamberge (hit them with the first swing to push them back a little, hesitate so I don't lunge forward, repeat). If they come in a group, shield bump, flail wildly, shield bump until they are dead or I am. If I'm really lucky, I'll have time to put a freezing atomizer between me and them (soon to be shivermist), and then I have a teammate use a hail driver while I continue to lay down the freezing mist. That works really if you see them far enough away, well but it isn't an option once they're in your hair.

I only recently discovered (by burning to death repeatedly with no apparent cause), that tier 3 greavers drop a status-inducing mist in addition to biting your face and shooting 4 status-inducing balls of death. That mist can be hard to see, so don't run around willy nilly with greavers in a tier 3 room.

Devilites are also tough, but only in large groups, especially in spike-filled rooms. Lots of overtimers means pitchforks flying everywhere, and those pitchforks have a long range and induce status effects, so kill overtimers first. Freezing bombs help a lot, but you'll need a CTR UV or some demo gear if you hope to be able to lay them down before getting forked. Flourish line swords also help, because devilites are weak to piercing. Guns are darn near useless unless someone else in your party is laying down freeze mist to hold them still. Even then, I would stick to hail drivers for the ricochets and refreezes.

Alpha wolvers have amazing range and do huge damage with their triple bite. Freeze them in place. Just blanket the room in freeze mist and the triple bit is totally neutralized because they can't move forward to get you. The teleporting is unusual, but it seems like they can only teleport once after being frozen, and they always emerge from that port frozen in place (even if outside of the freeze mist) and ready for a sword-wielding teammate to beat up on.

Phantoms are only bad for me in tier 3 and they're particularly horrible with a party of 3 or 4. Freeze bombs and hail drivers are great, a shield with shadow defense is a good idea, and don't forget to lure them into a room you've already cleared of zombies.

Gremlins are difficult, but only if there are two or more menders around. 3 menders is terrifying in tier 3 because it takes so long to burst their bubble of invincibility and they can resurrect each other. Kill the menders first, freeze if needed to control the crowd, fire bomb to deal damage to large groups (especially the annoying darting demos) and try to separate them one at a time and finish them off with swords.

In conclusion, I need more shadow defense in my armor.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 15:59
#7
Sirrocco
Legacy Username
Actually, I do have *one*

Actually, I do have *one* trick for the Trojans (at least, tier 2 trojans) - it just doesn't work with my current loadout. If you have a Calibur-line sword, start charging, then run up close and try to circle around him. He'll try to track on you for a little while, then charge up his all-directional attack (the one that buffs his attack temporarily). In order to do that, though, he has to freeze in place for a moment, which allows you to finish running around behind him and then unleash the charge attack - and the charge attack will knock him back far enough that when he does unleash his attack it won't hit you.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 16:20
#8
Saphykun's picture
Saphykun
I find tier 2 Wolvers harder

I find tier 2 Wolvers harder than tier 3 Wolvers. T2 Wolvers can quickly cover great distances and attack from any angle. T3 Wolvers move quickly too, but they tend to pop up behind you. I even prefer T3 Alpha wolvers to T2 wolvers of any kind.

... I don't care that the T3 Wolvers can cheat too, because they can burrow underground and pop up from A to B even when frozen. I just find them easier even when leaves fly up all over the place o.o

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