They were already barely worth the time it takes to go into the room, break open all the mineral veins and hope for a big one :P At lower depths anyway, but even for new players 5-20 extra crowns per floor isn't much. Now it's 2-12 seems like.
So now Minerals are even more worthless?
Thu, 05/26/2011 - 16:28
Thu, 05/26/2011 - 17:26
#2
On an individual level I'm
On an individual level I'm not sure you can possibly input enough minerals to really make a difference against the tides of people who just click "autosell" to dump all their minerals indiscriminately into it, but maybe I don't really understand how sensitive it is.
Thu, 05/26/2011 - 17:30
#3
The main purpose of minerals
The main purpose of minerals is to help change the clockworks, not get crown.
Even ''more'' worthless? If they were ''worthless'' to begin with then making them ''more worthless'' shouldn't realistically change anything, so who cares?
Thu, 05/26/2011 - 17:31
#4
I think every time a new
I think every time a new 'empty' gate is created, the value for each type of mineral in each strata should be randomized. That way, even if people just autosell every time, the outcomes can be different since the minerals will go to random places each time, if that makes sense.
Thu, 05/26/2011 - 17:38
#5
On one hand, this should make
On one hand, this should make it a lot less likely that a gate will be dominated by a single theme. On the other hand, I think this is going to make it nearly impossible for a (group of) guilds to try to make a specific strata a certain theme. The moment you try to stack the two colors for the theme you want is the moment you suddenly are actively fighting against the autoselling masses. Less crowns/mineral is annoying but I doubt anyone's going to care in the long run.
I want to see how this system will fare against the usual "two/three colors dominate" trends that happen from time to time.
Thu, 05/26/2011 - 17:42
#6
What if they gave guilds the
What if they gave guilds the option of buying minerals OUT of various gates? In large amounts. So that instead of trying to out-dump the autosell people, they can wait til a gate is close to being done and then removing colors they don't want and changing strata that way?
Thu, 05/26/2011 - 18:06
#7
>On an individual level I'm
>On an individual level I'm not sure you can possibly input enough minerals to really make a difference against the tides of people who just click "autosell" to dump all their minerals indiscriminately into it, but maybe I don't really understand how sensitive it is.
There is no cap on any of the gates anymore. If auto sellers are so lazy that they'll just click autosell on a gate without doing anything else, they are probably too lazy to change the depth from the first strata which means stratas 2-6 are prime for influencing. What will happen is that Strata 1 will now be the autosellers-operating-on-autopilot-strata and the rest will be for people who are carefully picking what they deposit. And yes I've been able to influence strata before but it was futile when a strata would only fill up a quarter of the way which meant you were influencing a 25% chance to get a certain strata.
Thu, 05/26/2011 - 18:05
#8
"What if they gave guilds the
"What if they gave guilds the option of buying minerals OUT of various gates? In large amounts. So that instead of trying to out-dump the autosell people, they can wait til a gate is close to being done and then removing colors they don't want and changing strata that way?"
This is actually an excellent idea.
Thu, 05/26/2011 - 18:07
#9
Simple Solution
If its not worth it to you at all just dont cut-down the minerals or even give your minerals to the stratums. Most players will take anything they can even 3 crowns is better than nothing...that 3 crowns you just made may make you be able to buy 100ce =).
Thu, 05/26/2011 - 18:25
#10
@eek: I tested it the far
@eek: I tested in the far right gate, and I'm pretty sure minerals go to whatever strata gives the highest payout.
Thu, 05/26/2011 - 18:30
#11
I would like to see strata
I would like to see strata locked by tier. That is, if you are not cleared to play in that tier, you cannot add minerals to the corresponding strata.
This way, you can only influence the strata you actually play. I'd like to see how the new changes work out, though.
Thu, 05/26/2011 - 18:31
#12
Nah
Worthless? The other day I was needing some cash and sold all my mineral reserves for 20k crowns.
I was saving them to change gates to my liking, but cash > stratums.
Thu, 05/26/2011 - 18:36
#13
@smashy If players are
@smashy If players are influencing deeper strata, they will have two mineral slots with +0 which will mean that autosellers would never drop into that if what you say is true which makes influencing gates even better..
Thu, 05/26/2011 - 21:57
#14
@eek: What I meant is that
@eek: What I meant is that each color of mineral will go into whatever strata has the best crown gain on it. Like if strata 2 had the highest crown gain for red and strata 5 had the best crown gain for blue, red goes to strata 2 while blue goes to strata 5.
And... actually, at an early glance it looks easy enough to influence a strata, actually. Everything's wanting to balance out at +3s and +2s so it looks like you just need to prod the theme's colors enough to make them +2 while avoiding the anti and it's good to go. I'm actually considering recording the building gates daily for the next week or so, just to see if any patterns pop up in the new system.
EDIT: Early observations: Plenty of antis, and a gate is going to go crazy with the theme changes when it gets to the far left of the building queue. I went to Dark Pawn gate, took the minerals I got from a jelly run+2-player run through a different gate, aimed at strata 6, and not only flipped it from Fiend to Undead, but turned strata 5 from Undead to Fiend. And they both went to Shock while I was typing this. Iron Knight just went to the far left, Shock/Poison/Fire/Undead/Poison/Undead at the time of this edit, for future reference.
Thu, 05/26/2011 - 22:23
#15
#6
I agree with post #6, a great crown sink and way to influence gates more actively, a certain charge or system would need to be in place to prevent buying low and selling high of the crystals for quick gains in profit though.
Fri, 05/27/2011 - 12:20
#16
A thought...
Allowing the cost of minerals to fluctuate will presumably reduce the amount of autoselling. Savvy players willing to run from depot to depot for a minute or two will still find where to maximize their gain, unloading minerals only where they provide the greatest reward. Now, if I'm not mistaken, you gain fewer crowns for minerals already in abundance in a particular strata, and more crowns for depositing minerals where they are of shorter supply. It would seem to me that if autoselling would become inconsequential (either via the current adjustments made, or future patches.. such as removing autosell entirely), that the current system supporting those savvy sellers would still be contrary to successful gate manipulation, in the same regard as autoselling.
If the rewards were switched -- greater gain for strata where a particular mineral is in abundance, and less gain where a mineral is in short supply -- then players looking to maximize profits will not influence gate changes, but would reinforce a gate from being changed. Then, players, guilds, and guild groups looking to affect a particular change will be rewarded by influencing that change, and not by monetary gain. Then allowing players, guilds, and guild groups to buy minerals out of a stratum (as suggested before) would help to balance the savvy players from reinforcing a gate, allowing those players more control over influencing the dungeons they want to crawl through for that evening. Just a prediction, but for that to work, the cost to buy would have to be static (5 CR per?), and not be influenced by the current supply in a given strata. This, I think, would be a suitable replacement to the recently removed.. whatever it was called.. system, whereby players could unload CR to increase the amount of influence a particular mineral would have at determining a gate.
Just my two cents. I really like this feature, it's unique and adds a whole new level of immersion to the game. Hopefully over time it will be perfected :)
Fri, 05/27/2011 - 12:51
#17
I like the general idea of
I like the general idea of gates building but honestly, its been said that if there is something that the GMs dont like they'll drop in alloys. I don't want my effort to be wasted so i don't even bother with minerals.
Fri, 05/27/2011 - 13:20
#18
RE: Guilds influencing gates.
It's been suggested before that the Guild Hall have a personal Guild Gate that can be built by the members themselves.
Fri, 05/27/2011 - 13:36
#19
The main purpose I saw in
The main purpose I saw in minerals was increased crown payout.
well that got nerfed.
it's rather meaningless to be able to influence what stratum can be rerun again to a patient player. (unless I can somehow add arena stages?!)
Fri, 05/27/2011 - 13:45
#20
@Desparian It's been
@Desparian It's been suggested before that the Guild Hall have a personal Guild Gate that can be built by the members themselves.
That's probably the best idea, though possibly abusable? I still like the communal / competitive strata influence system. Just needs some kinks worked out.
Fri, 05/27/2011 - 14:21
#21
on the long run....
on the long run...it was waaaay better the way it was.
im one of those auto sell players and wenever i remembered about minerals i had around 60-70 minerals of each color siting in my inventory so i had roughly the same amount of minerals for each color (60reds, 65purple, 70blue, 60green, 70yellow something like that) so my influence on the gate was minimal IMO now i have to put my minerals (as already said above) were they ar worth the most directly conflicting with whoever woul like to efectively influence a stratum.
the way it was only players aiming to influence would influence and players that didnt care wouldnt so every1 happy (:D)
NOW players that care have to fight with players that dont care and because there is a greater number of players that dont care it is a loss battle for the players that do care, and at the same time players that dont care get less money which is the only reason they even deposit minerals in the first place so no1 is happy (D:)
i love how OOO always chose pointless changes that make every1 unhappy.... keep up the good work
Fri, 05/27/2011 - 15:17
#22
I heard mineral counts were
I heard mineral counts were removed.
It's now impossible to tell if you're influencing a gate at all, or if it's in a stage where it's possible at all to influence it.
Hence, more worthless. He's not wrong.
Fri, 05/27/2011 - 15:26
#23
You can still see how much of
You can still see how much of each mineral is in a given stratum. You can no longer view wow many minerals it will take to complete a gate.
The revamped values appears to be producting strata that are only about ±300 minerals from the middle value. Auto sell now distributes a bit better. A single guild could most definitely affect the outcome of a stratum at the cost of lower mineral profits.
Fri, 05/27/2011 - 16:04
#24
"You can no longer view wow
"You can no longer view wow many minerals it will take to complete a gate."
There isn't a cap anymore, that's why. It's all time-based. You don't 'complete' a strata -- the time runs out and the gate is made based on the minerals in there at that moment.
Fri, 05/27/2011 - 16:19
#25
@Oedipus
Keep in mind, in constructing the Guild Gate it's inactive at the time. That's 8 days of dumping minerals into a Guild Gate, and it has to be coordinated throughout the guild in order to reach the desired objective.
Fri, 05/27/2011 - 19:31
#26
Someone posted this
Someone posted this elsewhere
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/8168/oooscunningplan.jpg
I kind of want to see this go down though I might have to avoid that fiend one like the plague lol...
Fri, 05/27/2011 - 19:41
#27
above
That was part of the problem when it was too easy to influence the gates under a much older system. People were able to create non-stop arenas with huge payouts that resulted in the Energy economy rapidly inflating. If gates actually start launching like that do not be surprised if another major gate system change comes along.
Fri, 05/27/2011 - 19:50
#28
Hmm, how do people create
Hmm, how do people create arenas? I only know about influencing a stratum.
Fri, 05/27/2011 - 20:11
#29
What are the negative effects of auto selling?
So what are they? I don't understand what influencing a stratum is since I'm a new player.
Fri, 05/27/2011 - 20:14
#30
Hmm, how do people create
Hmm, how do people create arenas? I only know about influencing a stratum.
You can't anymore. An early form of the gate system influenced the floor type because there were no strata themes fully implemented yet. Now you only control the strata theme (as far as I can tell) and the floor type is random. This was a very good change as the original system was too easily abused to benefit late-game players.
Fri, 05/27/2011 - 20:24
#31
>.> I'd like that system back
>.> I'd like that system back lol
Fri, 05/27/2011 - 21:18
#32
>.> I'd like that system back
>.> I'd like that system back lol
It's great until the Energy Market catches up and the going price for CE is well over 15K crowns because it is too easy to earn far too much. Arenas had, and still do have, an amazing payout. Having an entire gate full of them results in near game breaking behavior from the established players and a huge difficulty barrier for new free-to-play players.
Fri, 05/27/2011 - 21:30
#33
good point...
good point...
To me, being able to influence a gate is a lot more "valuable" than getting an extra 2 crowns per mineral, especially on deeper strata.