Spiral Knights - SK Theory and Speculation thread

SK Theory and Speculation thread

50 replies [Last post]

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 19:28

Dyskit

Today while chatting with my buddy Thundrbolt in haven, I started wondering something; What is the colour of the sky as seen from the surface of cradle?
This is something that I was wondering because from the normal angle we play in, the sky is not visible. After talking about this for a while about this, we have come up with some more questions;
-What gases are involved with the spiral knight's respiratory cycle? (what do they breathe or exhale?) or what the heck are spiral knights anyway?
-Why is it always day here? (please make a day and night cycle if any developers are reading this, that would be super neat!)
-Additionally, the description for the first rescue camp is "before night falls" <- So why isn't there night or in haven? D:
-How big is cradle? We're still looking for a diameter/radius or mass!

Here are some things we DO know (or what we can infer as a result);
-Cradle orbits around a star. (or something really bright)
-Cradle is round, a few major dents but is round, which is the case
-Cradle has a moon, quite large and in close proximity to cradle, and thus it must orbit rather quickly to maintain altitude.
-Cradle has clouds and thus, an atmosphere.
-Fire and combustion is able to occur on cradle, so there must be oxygen in some form in the atmosphere.
-The sky (at least from the view seen in the character creation scene) is a pale blue. (we also see a bit of the moon from this view)
-There are green plants here, probably a result of chlorophyll. so sunlight is a requirement for plant respiration.
-We can infer that the of cradle planet rotates (which would bring up the question of why it is always day here), we see in the character creation scene that the smoke emitting from the pod is exiting in a diagonal direction, which would suggest the presence of wind. Wind is caused by changes in atmospheric pressure, due to heating from a sun and convection from the rotation of the planet. All suggest that the planet is rotating.
-What is the height of a Spiral Knight? refer to the image posted by Hexzyle -> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/89228792/Knight_Height.png

Stuff we no longer want to know about;
-What is the actual colour of the water here? We're assuming this is water, H2O.
-What gases are present in the atmosphere of Cradle? <- from this we should be able to determine the colour of the sky by seeing the effects of Rayleigh scattering of the particles in the atmosphere or vice versa. Developers probably had conditions similar to earth in mind when designing cradle.
-What's the temperature on the sunny side of cradle? and what is the average temperature range on cradle? as Hexzyle pointed out, the temperature range for life on cradle probably couldn't fluctuate too much from the conditions on earth.

Deleted the fictional theories because it is irrelevant to this thread.
There are many more questions and theories to be listed so post below your ideas and speculate away!

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 19:33

Xtweeterx

If you look over the horizon in the Arcade by walking up, you will see it's indeed blue.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 19:37

Dyskit

@Xtweeterx

The Arcade? are we even sure that it is the sky though? :P

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 19:42

Munches

Extra questions:

1. What does a spiral knight look like without its armor?

What we do know, is that spiral knights have humonoid features, like limbs, body, head. (Possibly glowing eyes?)
But what does it look like underneath all that armor?

2. Where did the spiral knights flee from?

This one goes really in-depth. You see, they never tell you where the spiral knights were fleeing from, or what their home planet was, but there is strong evidence suggesting that possibly spiral knights were from earth. Why? Only one thing so far.

Belts.
Belts?
I just realised after making a new character that the Spiral Flak Jacket has belts on it.
Why does that suggest anything? Well.. What are belts made from? Leather? Where does leather come from? Cows.

Of course there are ways of obtaining leather from other animals, and somehow Spiral Knights have adapted the same ways of creating materials.

Thats the only questions I have so far.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 19:50

Skepticraven

Axis of Rotation

An explanation for why Haven is always sunny is that the axis in which Cradle rotates is angled toward the light source. This would be similar to what one living in Antarctica would experience on earth (although this example swaps between almost always light and almost always dark). There are some "twilight" based arcade depths (such as lichen colonies).

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 20:19

Dyskit

@Skepticraven

That is a plausible explanation, if that is the case though, our shadow should still be constantly changing, unless of course we live on the pole and the axis' was directly pointing towards the sun. which would explain our shadow being a small spot on the ground all the time.
However, the official drawings of cradle suggest otherwise and the introduction video seems to show the pod falling around the equator, of course you could say that we had to travel north to get to haven, which would make sense if cradle was really small or we were just very fast at walking there.

That also presents another question, is the aspect of the camera we see our knights in pointing towards the northern direction?

- On another note, I thought of another random idea going along with my theory of earth origins, what if the strangers were humans that remained behind? We never see their faces after all :P (but I tend not to take my theory too seriously.)

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 21:30

Hexzyle

Theory? HAH! Get decimated, theory! I'm bringing in the facts!

What is the colour of the sky?

It's blue, it's visible in the Character Creation Screen

What is the actual colour of the water here?

It's clear, or blue because it's reflecting the sky.

What gases are present in the atmosphere of Cradle?

Oxygen exists, at least, because there is fire. If we assume Twisted Leaf, and other Foliage such as bushes operate the same as carbon-based flora, then Nitrogen may exist in the atmosphere as well.

Why is it always day here?

Because Haven is in a location on the surface where a full rotation of the planet does not put it into night, a.k.a in proximity to the North Pole of a maximum distance proportionate to the planet's axis tilt. (0 <= tilt <= 180) if the tilt is 90°, then the valid locations for Haven is anywhere on the Northern Hemisphere, while if the tilt was 0°, the only valid location for Haven would be directly ontop of one of the Poles. (although on a perfectly perpendicular axis, the poles are considered both "day" and "night")

Why does night occur in the rescue camp?
Had to reword your "question" because it wasn't one.

Continuing from the above explanation, the Rescue Camp is in proximity to the North Pole of a minimum distance directly proportionate to the planet's axis tilt: if the tilt is 90°, then the only valid location for Rescue Camp would be directly along the equator, (although on a perfectly paralell axis, the equator is considered both "day" and "night") while if the tilt was 0°, then the valid locations for the Rescue Camp is anywhere on Cradle.

How big is cradle?

Cradle has a diameter of at least 72 kilometers

What's the temperature on the sunny side of cradle? and what is the average temperature range on cradle?

If the state of water is anything to go by, it can't be any cooler than 0° or hotter than 100°.
Even if water is regarded as an invalid source of information, it can't be much colder: blood (a saline solution) freezes at -2°, although antartic fish have been observed to swim in -6° waters thanks to antifreeze proteins.
It can't be much hotter than 100° either, as most common items would combust due to the atmosphere reaching their ignition temperature.

What is the height of a Spiral Knight?

Spiral Knights's normal height is roughly 140cm high.

[BIOTECH HAHN, END TRANSMISSION]

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 21:54

Munches

@Hexzyle

Ok, not distrusting you. But could we have some sources here?

Also, you're assuming that the liquid on cradle is water, but it could be a different liquid that possibly freezes at lower temperatures (or higher).

Please link some sources, like how did you calculate a spiral knight's height.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 21:59

Dyskit

Wow Hexzyle, that's some nice bit of info there.

I'm gonna go ahead and argue some of those points if you will. :>

"What is the colour of the sky?"
-I have already said that the sky is a blueish colour.

"What is the actual colour of the water here?
It's clear, or blue because it's reflecting the sky."
- How do you know? The water in the fountain in haven is too dark a blue (in comparison to the other objects around it) for it to be a reflection. The blue must be the result of 1. colouring in the water 2. The colour of the base of the fountain 3. something in the water that has a blue pigment or 4. the result of Rayleigh scattering off particles in the water. However this is assuming that it is H2O and the colour is added/artificial, if it's originally blue then the liquid is not water.

"What gases are present in the atmosphere of Cradle?"
- Assuming that the atmosphere's composition was similar to that of earth, it would explain the colour of the sky. I guess the real question is what the knights require for respiration, if they even breathe.

"Why is it always day here?"
- I have already covered this, scroll up.

"Why does night occur in the rescue camp?"
- my question was more like, if there's night in the rescue camp, then why isn't there night in haven? but that doesn't matter, it's always twilight in that camp too though, until you go to the next stage that is :P

"How big is cradle?
Cradle has a diameter of at least 72 kilometers"
-can you give evidence or citation to back that claim?

"What's the temperature on the sunny side of cradle? and what is the average temperature range on cradle?"
- For that we must first answer the question, is it even water?

"What is the height of a Spiral Knight?
Spiral Knights's normal height is roughly 140cm high."
- Again, please give evidence or citation to back up that claim, we would like to know where you got that figure, because if that figure is correct, we will be able to determine many other factors as a result. Not that I doubt it or anything, just need solid evidence so that we can make accurate speculations.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 22:01

Bitsbee

Knight Height Thread.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 22:13

#10

Hexzyle

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/89228792/Knight_Height.png

Screenshot taken directly from Spiral Spy, each square on the grid is equivalent to a square in the game. If the developers are using a metric system, we can assume that each one is 1 meter square, making the Knight in this image 145cm tall (if we ignore the mohawk)
This also matches with the Knight/Sniper comparison brought up in this thread.

Even if the developers are not using metric system, let's say, yards, then it's 132cm.

And yes, the Knight's feet are on the bottom line in the second image. It's due to perspective that it appears over, I had to slide the camera up in order to fit the whole Knight in the screenshot.

Also, you're assuming that the liquid on cradle is water, but it could be a different liquid that possibly freezes at lower temperatures (or higher).

No, I'm not restricting my view based on that theory alone, as I just said:
Even if water is regarded as an invalid source of information, it can't be much colder: blood (a saline solution) freezes at -2°, although antartic fish have been observed to swim in -6° waters thanks to antifreeze proteins.
It can't be much hotter than 100° either, as most common items would combust due to the atmosphere reaching their ignition temperature
Take wood for example, it has an approximate ignition temperature of 150°

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 22:34

#11

Hexzyle

If you want to know where I pulled that figure for the size of cradle, you're going to have to wait while I write up an essay on my calculations. (might take me a few hours to put it into an easy-to-read format, currently it's just a Skype text chat between Zeddy and I)

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 22:53

#12

Dyskit

Excellent

so there is a measured height for the knights, we should be able to find the size of cradle if we're using the same measurements as the one used it SS.

@Hexzyle if you ever get that essay done, please share it! :>

EDIT: I've changed the title of the thread as we no longer care about the sky colour.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 23:55

#13

Dekuinanutshell

@munchies

Can you please watch the intro? It tells you more about how they landed in cradel in the first place.

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 02:10

#14

Hexzyle

One day I'll draw a Spiral Knight without their armor on.

That is, if we are allowed to draw fanart of spoilers.

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 02:11

#15

Munches

@Hexzyle

Unfortunately not. (Tell me where the .dat file is tho)

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 02:20

#16

Hexzyle

Nowhere in reach of the public.

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 04:00

#17

Bananaphonehaha

Atmosphere

I read somewhere that the atmosphere of Cradle has mist energy in it, which is how mist energy was accumulated in the past and stored within the knights' internal tanks!

Here, found it on the wiki
'Due to the intense power source at Cradle's core, the entire planet's atmosphere is imbued with loose, airborne mist energy.'

Not sure if this is still relevant after the energy changes :p

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 04:25

#18

Dyskit

god damn how do I turn this subject thing off?

@Bananaphonehaha heh, mist energy, maybe that can be an explanation as to why all the clockworks seem to float around.

@Hexzyle hey I don't usually use SS, so if you could tell me how to get the grid up to be parallel to the knight that would be cool.

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 04:59

#19

Krakob

One day I'll draw a Spiral Knight without their armor on.
I don't think nudity is permitted in this game!

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 05:13

#20

Hexzyle

@Hexzyle hey I don't usually use SS, so if you could tell me how to get the grid up to be parallel to the knight that would be cool.

You clear the model off the screen so you have nothing. Then you go Edit > Preferences and load a model into the selection there (The advantage is by doing that you can transform the model, while the advantage of the other method is you can apply animations in real time)

Now if you scroll down, there will be various transform scales. Bring the X Rotation down to -90, then shift your camera so you're directly above the grid looking down.

I don't think nudity is permitted in this game!

You wear your armor with no cyberplex suit underneath? I cringe when I think about the amount of chafing you must suffer. Or are you just that h4rdk0r?

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 05:24

#21

Sandwich-Potato

If you noticed, you walk into a blazing inferno and walk out without even thinking about a change of clothes.

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 10:56

#22

Magnum-Frost

-Generic Subject Line-

Interesting thread...I'll get right to work on this one!

Is Cradle earth after humans are gone?

No. I say this because we have been given information that the clockworks isn't just a giant mechanism built into a planet, but that the land masses of Cradle are actually built from the pieces of other worlds, which means that there could be a chunk of earth in there, but Cradle itself is not earth.

What gasses make up Cradle's atmosphere?

I would assume that the composition of Cradle's atmosphere is similar to that of earth, if only roughly. First off, we know there must be oxygen because of the combustion which occurs on Cradle, which also means there must be carbon dioxide as a byproduct of combustion. I also believe that the plant life on Cradle, and consequentially, the origin planets which make up Cradle's chunks, live by normal means of photosynthesis. Because of the absolutely MASSIVE amount of combustion which occurs on Cradle, over time, the fires would consume all oxygen in the atmosphere and thus the combustion reactions would cease to function if there were not enormous amounts of plants or other organisms which would convert said carbon dioxide back into oxygen. So, we have oxygen and carbon dioxide, but what about the most abundant gas in earth's atmosphere, nitrogen? Well, we are incredibly lucky that nitrogen is in such a high quantity in our atmosphere instead of having more oxygen or some other gas, and this is because nitrogen is one of the very few gasses which is non toxic and very non reactive, meaning that it wont kill us with poison and it won't blow up in our face. Now why would a much higher concentration of oxygen in the atmosphere be bad? To answer that question with a question, have you ever seen what happens when you put a candle under a jar and then pump pure oxygen into the jar? The candle becomes so bright and hot that it can barely even be looked at because the rate of combustion has been sped up dramatically. So, if the atmosphere of Cradle had an overabundance of oxygen, the fires which burn throughout the planet would burn with such intensity that the planet would be uninhabitable because of heat, smoke, and toxic atmospheric conditions. Thus, we can assume that a majority of the gas which makes up Cradle's atmosphere is most likely nitrogen, with oxygen, carbon dioxide, and a small amount of other gasses.

Is the water on Cradle even H2O?

Most likely, yes, it would be required for all those plants that are turning the CO2 produced by the fires back into oxygen. Speaking of fires, one of the products of combustion reactions is water, so it would at least exist in small amounts. And as for the coloration of the water, the color of water will differ depending on the microorganisms in the water as well as mineral composition. Another explanation for the water color is that the color of the light hitting it could be slightly different than our sun, leaning towards having heavier amounts of light from one part of the visible light spectrum than others and thus reflecting and refracting in a slightly different manner than what we are used to seeing on earth.

How big is Cradle?

There have been a lot of threads on this subject and some debate is there on whether Cradle could be very small due to the effects of gravity and mass empty space in the clockworks. Though I really don't care much about the size itself, I am interested on how Cradle has so much gravity. My quick answer is that if gravitons are, indeed, the source of gravity, that the core and whatever/whoever is inside it is able to manipulate gravitons so that Cradle could have a small size/lack of mass and still have relatively earth-like gravity, otherwise we would be moon jumping like crazy.

What gasses are involved in the knights' respiratory cycle?

Well, that depends on what the knights truly are. I like the idea that the knights are a kind of jelly which can conform themselves, if only within certain parameters, to the shape of their armor. Back on subject, the knights, considering they function well in Cradle's atmosphere, probably breathe oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide. Most non-plant organisms breathe aerobically, and this is because the energy required for life, whether that of algae or an elephant, is provided by combustion reactions. There are some single-celled organisms which breathe anaerobically but they are few and far between because they must go through the extra work to utilize another oxidizing agent to perform combustion which is incredibly inefficient, also, these organisms mostly live in very harsh environments due the the fact that these organisms tend to die in the presence of oxygen, which we know must be present in Cradle's atmosphere. In a nutshell, the knights are almost certainly aerobic organisms, meaning they inhale oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide (as well as water and oxygen which was not used, but that would just be getting technical).

What do knights look like under their armor?

Have none of you looked at that rotating manikin that pops up when you hover over armor and is present next to guild hall furniture previews? But really, they probably look like that, and are probably really squishy since there is good reason to believe they are jelly-like organisms.

Why doesn't haven have a day/night cycle?

Because the devs couldn't be bothered to put one in the game. More probably is that it wasn't needed because of their intention of haven having a warm and relaxing art style.

END

@Munches - "Leather" can be made from the hide of most animals, we just use cows because of their size, thick skin, and mass abundance.

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 12:29

#23

Hexzyle

I decided to make my first web page for no explicit reason to explain the size of Cradle.

It's starting to look snazzy. :)

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 16:52

#24

Dyskit

@Magnum-Frost

Thanks for the post!
I agree with your points, just wondering though, you seem to base your hypothesis about gravity on a fact that cradle is small; "otherwise we would be moon jumping like crazy."
But is there really any need for gravitons to be involved? couldn't cradle be very large?
I will be able to find the gravitational attraction to Haven, once I get SS to work on my windows computer. >.>

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 22:24

#25

Hexzyle

couldn't cradle be very large?

If you mean "very large" as in close to planet sized, definitely nope. Earth has a 6,371km radius, and there's no chance that Cradle is anything near that. Even if my calculations are off by 1000%, (and even if they were, it'd just be emphasizing Cradle's hollowness) then we'd be looking at 400km tops. That's not even close to the Moon's radius, 1,737km.

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 22:36

#26

Skayeth

Mmh

Higher the mass, the more gravitational pull. We could see a moon orbits Cradle. It has to be bigger.

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 23:08

#27

Dyskit

@Annilation, well pluto has a

@Annilation, well pluto has a moon and pluto's mass is smaller than our own moon, the orbit altitude of the moon orbiting it would just have to be lower, just like the moon that orbits cradle.

@Hexzyle why not? I don't see any evidence other than pictorial representations (which are very unreliable) that suggest that cradle is small.

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 23:36

#28

Rihzome

@Hexzyle I have to agree with

@Hexzyle I have to agree with you. Cradle is quite small compared to any other planet in out solar system. I did some rudimentary calculations, and if using the diameter of each Bio-Sphere (The spheres levels occur in) at 3 Kilometres, and about 10 kilometres of Elevatros connecting them, that equates to the Entire Diameter of Cradle being about 200KMs + the diameter of the core its self.

@Annilaton, We never see the far, or "Dark" side of Cradles moon. For all we know, it's not a moon at all, and some sort of orbiting Command Centre for Cradle. Also, you could say that, based on the debris around the moon, that it is hollow, or a shell.

Then again, we could all be wrong, and cradle is suspended in a Slipstream Containment Field.
Put simply. It's bigger on the inside.

Fri, 01/17/2014 - 10:45

#29

Magnum-Frost

-Generic Subject Line-

@Dyskit
Even if cradle was enormous, the problem lies in its mass, seeing as how Cradle is mostly hollow. Being hollow, under normal circumstances, the gravity of the planet would be significantly smaller than that of earth, even if they were roughly the same size. Now, considering that cradle is around the size of a very large asteroid/mini planet, AND the fact that it is mostly hollow, there needs to be a means of having more gravity than it should. Einstein's theories of gravitation working with mass creating "dips" in space and time would not work here, so the alternative of the graviton theory, the theory that gravity is caused by the attraction between particles called gravitons, must be implemented. In a nutshell, cradle is too small and too hollow to have the gravity it does without something being able to manipulate the mass to graviton ratio that exists normally.

Fri, 01/17/2014 - 13:28

#30

Skayeth

The thread of SK scientists.....

Fri, 01/17/2014 - 13:47

#31

Sandwich-Potato

Maybe Cradle is a giant magnet?

Fri, 01/17/2014 - 17:51

#32

Dyskit

@Magnum-FrostLet me explain

@Magnum-Frost
Let me explain again, if you read my earlier post with the quote: "I don't see any evidence other than pictorial representations (which are very unreliable) that suggest that cradle is small." You will see that I am NOT talking about why cradle is small nor am I even considering cradle being small.
Your quote "Even if cradle was enormous, the problem lies in its mass", doesn't really get to the point I was putting forward, it skips the point that being bigger (having more mass) would clearly solve all the problems of gravity that you seem to suggest.
"considering that cradle is around the size of a very large asteroid/mini planet" <-- how do you know this is the case? from what I gather there is no definitive prove that cradle is small, for all we know cradle could actually be larger than earth (in diameter) and would then be able to compensate for the mass needed to attain the gravitational attraction there is. Please also bear in mind that Mass =/= Volume, and that a small moon sized object could very well have more mass than an object the size of a planet, examples are white dwarves, as small as a solid planet but having as much mass as a star. Additionally, smaller objects (in terms of volume) may not have less gravitational attraction as a result, one example is uranus, which has a WEAKER gravitational force than Earth, even if it's size and mass is a lot greater.

I don't know where it has been suggested that cradle is actually very small (pictures without scale do not count) and it is probable that I have missed something but even IF cradle was small, having such gravity would still be plausible.

@Sandwich-Potato magnets do not attract most elements.

Fri, 01/17/2014 - 22:15

#33

Hexzyle

for all we know cradle could actually be larger than earth (in diameter) and would then be able to compensate for the mass needed to attain the gravitational attraction there is

The gravity at depth 28 is the same as the gravity on the surface, so measuring the diameter of the planet to find gravity is the wrong approach. You should be measuring the diameter and gravity of the core.

Sat, 01/18/2014 - 01:02

#34

Skayeth

aoskdaoskd

The Core...is now a different story...

Sat, 01/18/2014 - 08:29

#35

Dean-Zane

don't we all feel..

Don't we all feel that movement decrease at depth 29? It feels like something is slowing me down whenever I get there... wierd... maybe the gravity is stronger thanks to be so close to the center of Cradle? or is it some unseen force that wants to suck us down into eternity?

Sat, 01/18/2014 - 10:16

#36

Hexzyle

Don't we all feel that movement decrease at depth 29? It feels like something is slowing me down whenever I get there... wierd...

Yep, it's called lag. :P

Also: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/96064

Sat, 01/18/2014 - 16:18

#37

Dyskit

@Hexzyle

The only reason I said "larger than earth (in diameter)" was so not to be confused with mass. I have no intention of measuring the diameter of the planet as I see it is irrelevant with the little we know about the architect of it.

Sat, 01/18/2014 - 17:52

#38

Skepticraven

Hrm...

I find it amusing how some of the arcade skyboxes have moons and lamps within them (watch the background long enough and it will rotate a full 180 to show the other side of the sky). It is also amusing to note that the "sky" in the arcade is actually a projection screen. Look closely enough and you will notice some hexagonal panels are broken/missing.

I wonder if the initial creators made these skyboxes as testing facilities for the creatures within them. We only use them now as a transportation method to the core.

Sat, 01/18/2014 - 18:28

#39

Dyskit

Acceleration due to Gravity experiment.

Ok, I have conducted a rough experiment to find the acceleration due to gravity on cradle.

I requested my friend to make a video from spiral spy showing the knight performing the dodge/dash animation, I chose this because it was the first thing that came to my mind when I was looking for something falling.

Please note that this experiment is for finding out a close estimate of the acceleration due to gravity and will not be 100% accurate because of limitations in SS. Also, I'm not sure of how developers made the animations so the acceleration may be different for other objects, but for the sake of finding a rough figure, this will have to do until we can find a more reliable subject.

Here is the video only the real time "100%" playback is relevant, the video is at 60fps.

Ok, the first step was to analyse the video, I opened the mp4 in Adobe After Effects because I find that very reliable.

I went to the part with the real time jumping, walked through it frame by frame and found the optimum height that the knight reaches and froze the frame there. (Ref 1.)

For this experiment, I am only interested in the time and distance of the fall AFTER the optimum height is reached, using the helmet as a guide for the distance.

I then proceeded to move a few frames when at the 7th frame the helmet position was rather conveniently one helmet length lower than the original position, like so

now using the image Hexzyle provided above as a guide, I can see that the helmet is approximately 50cm tall, if using the metric system. Therefore it is able to be concluded that the distance in the image (Ref 1.) between the optimum position and the fallen position after 7 frames was 50cm or 0.5m.

Applying this to projectile motion formula;
∆y=(U)t+(1/2)gt^2
U is initial velocity of the vertical component, because I am measuring from the optimum height, the initial velocity is 0. therefore, (U)t = 0
so without (U)t, re-arranging the formula to g as the subject gives;
g=2*∆y/t^2
[Here, "g" is acceleration in the vertical component, this is our acceleration due to gravity.
"∆y" is the distance that the object has fallen,
and "t" is the time taken for that object to fall the distance.]
We know that our ∆y is 0.5m (from Ref 1.) (downwards, we will consider positive values to be downward vectors.)
and that it was 7 frames from the optimum position so 7/60 (frames per second) gives us the value in seconds, this is our time.
only using SI units.

Putting those values in gives us
g=2*0.5/(7/60)^2
g=73.469387755 m/s^2 (calculator value)

Initially looking at that figure I thought I must've done something wrong because I didn't think that the value would be so large (earth is only 9.8m/s^2)

So I went back to after effects and moved the frames back a bit. At 5 frames after the optimum height, the distance the knight has fallen was about half a helmet (Ref 2.), so 0.25m (hmm these heads are pretty big, are you sure that it's 10cm grids in 10:1 view Hexzyle?)

putting the values 5/60s and 0.25m from (Ref 2.);
g=2*0.25/(5/60)^2
g=72 m/s^2

The value remains similar. There you have it, gravitational acceleration on the platforms of Cradle is roughly 72m/s^2 to 74m/s^2. Bigger than we all expected I imagine.

How this applies to the size of cradle?
I'm gonna round our acceleration figure to 73m/s^2
g=GM/r^2
G is the universal gravitational constant of 6.67384*10^-11 m^3 kg^-1 s^-2
so re-arranging
M/r^2 = 73/(6.67384*10^-11)
M/r^2 = 1093823046402
or in english,
Mass of Cradle divided by the (Radius of Cradle squared) = 1093823046402
well then.....
If anyone ever finds either the radius of cradle or the mass of cradle you can use this formula to find the other component.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 08:49

#40

Skepticraven

No.

Assumptions you forgot to list:
Force returning the knight to the ground is assumed to be only gravitational.
0 error in calculations. That is way too many significant figures (13) with the numbers you are calculating.
Identified and measured the center of mass of the knight (to be the helmet?).

We were traveling in space, and we have tech suits around us. It makes sense to have some form of magnetic control on our footware.

Even if the first two assumptions can be ignored, you still call that acceleration due to only gravity (as it also includes internal body forces).

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 09:36

#41

Hexzyle

Now compare your logic you just did then to Zombie's leap attacks, to see if it holds.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 16:18

#42

Dyskit

@Skepticraven "Assumptions

@Skepticraven
"Assumptions you forgot to list:
Force returning the knight to the ground is assumed to be only gravitational.
0 error in calculations. That is way too many significant figures (13) with the numbers you are calculating.
Identified and measured the center of mass of the knight (to be the helmet?)."
I'm not sure what you are trying to say. I am only assuming that gravity is what is returning the knight to the ground, I don't really have anything else I can assume. 0 error? does that mean I have not made any errors? please be more specific. I'm only using the helmet as a guide to measurements as the rest of the body, excluding limbs, falls at a similar rate.
"We were traveling in space, and we have tech suits around us. It makes sense to have some form of magnetic control on our footware."
sure, when you can find definitive evidence that we are wearing magnetic footwear and that the ground is able to be attracted to magnets, I'll consider.
"Even if the first two assumptions can be ignored, you still call that acceleration due to only gravity (as it also includes internal body forces)."
again, I'm not sure what you are saying, I AM calling it acceleration due to gravity... or did you mean something else?

@Hexzyle actually, that may have been a better subject for this experiment, I'll go take a look and maybe do the same thing for zombies. I am convinced that all the things that have free fall in SK have different fall accelerations though, I doubt the developers had put as much thought into this, not that they should've.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 21:35

#43

Skepticraven

@Dyskit

I'm pointing out flaws in your assumptions. What is to say it isn't gravity, why don't you have error, and why are you referring to the center of mass as the helmet?

A knight is obviously not a rigid body, so you cannot apply the rigid body Newtonian mechanic model to it. IF you found the center of mass (and tracked that), you could. This is what I was referring to with "Even if the first two assumptions can be ignored, you still call that acceleration due to only gravity (as it also includes internal body forces)."

What I am saying is that equations and methods you picked to solve for mass are not being applied correctly. We cannot assume spherical gorgos of uniform density in a frictionless vacuum for this problem.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 21:50

#44

Hexzyle

BE A PART OF SOIL!

"Zombie's leap attacks"

"I am convinced that all the things that have free fall in SK have different fall accelerations though"

Try stunning one too. WHERE IS YOUR GRAVITY NOW?

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 21:50

#45

Klipik-Forum

" What are belts made from? Leather? "

>_>

-What gases are involved with the spiral knight's respiratory cycle? (what do they breathe or exhale?) or what the heck are spiral knights anyway?
Not necessarily anything, they could be robots. And we have absolutely 100% no way of knowing.

-Why is it always day here? (please make a day and night cycle if any developers are reading this, that would be super neat!)
Haven rotates on the surface of Cradle such that it is always facing the sun, except for during Dark Harvest which is a prolonged lunar eclipse caused by a moon with an orbit of approximately one year.

-Additionally, the description for the first rescue camp is "before night falls" <- So why isn't there night or in haven? D:
Rescue Camp does not move the same way Haven does and as such has night.

-How big is cradle? We're still looking for a diameter/radius or mass!
Very.

-Cradle orbits around a star. (or something really bright)
Not necessarily, the star could orbit cradle. :o

-Cradle has a moon, quite large and in close proximity to cradle, and thus it must orbit rather quickly to maintain altitude.
Only if it's natural and not powered by anti-gravity engines inside it engineered by the creators of cradle to keep an eye on its inhabitants from afar.

-Cradle has clouds and thus, an atmosphere.
Unless they're dust clouds made up of microscopic orbiting space debris, similar to the rings of saturn.

-Fire and combustion is able to occur on cradle, so there must be oxygen in some form in the atmosphere.
You can have fire without oxygen.

-There are green plants here, probably a result of chlorophyll. so sunlight is a requirement for plant respiration.
Different solar system, possibly different galaxy, universe or even dimension. Life could have evolved differently with a different way for plants to produce energy. Alternatively the plants could be artificial.

-We can infer that the of cradle planet rotates (which would bring up the question of why it is always day here), we see in the character creation scene that
the smoke emitting from the pod is exiting in a diagonal direction, which would suggest the presence of wind. Wind is caused by changes in atmospheric pressure, due to heating from a sun and convection from the rotation of the planet. All suggest that the planet is rotating.
Unless as previously mentioned the core of the planet is not rotating but instead some parts are moving around it.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 22:02

#46

Hexzyle

BE A PART OF SOIL!

Not necessarily anything, they could be robots. And we have absolutely 100% no way of knowing

I thought you were aware.

Haven rotates on the surface of Cradle such that it is always facing the sun, except for during Dark Harvest which is a prolonged lunar eclipse caused by a moon with an orbit of approximately one year.

I looked into this further and it seems far more likely that Dark Harvest is caused by masses of air-bound particles that blot out the sunlight. Notice the haze all around Haven?

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 23:08

#47

Trinity-Limit

My head hurts

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 23:29

#48

Klipik-Forum

1: many of those references have no mention of knights in them. The ones that mention either "knights" or "you" are all functions that could be performed by an advanced artificial creation. And the ones about being warm-blooded and not needing to breathe were very loose.

2: The haze is caused by a combination of the dust kicked up by the circular wind pattern within the shadow of the moon caused by the temperature difference brought on by the darkness, and the ghosts not bundled up in Haunted Auras.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 18:00

#49

Michaelb

@Klipik-Forum's post concerning a star orbiting Cradle: As far as something orbiting cradle: http://media.spiralknights.com/wiki-images/9/9b/Spiralstats-fullres.png the statistic concerning the number of hours spent on Cradle shows a small entity orbiting Cradle (unless Cradle is orbiting it, which is unlikely but nonetheless possible). (this can also be witnessed in the login screen)

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 21:05

#50

Klipik-Forum

That's the moon, not a star. There are other pictures of it. There's even one at the top of this page, scroll up.

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