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Secondary bombs for swordies, gunners, and bombers!

22 replies [Last post]
Sun, 01/26/2014 - 15:10
Blastsite's picture
Blastsite

I have an idea for a grenade style bomb that would be thrown. Like a bomb. You would charge it above your head, like a normal bomb, but you'd be able to release the charge at 3 different timings within the charge. There would be 3 bars to the charge. Each bar would be a different distance. The first bar would drop the bomb like normal, the second would have the bomber lob the bomb a short-medium distance away where it would land, stick and detonate after charge up, and the third would have the bomber lob the bomb a medium-far distance, and would do the same as charge 2. The point of this bomb is utility and support, therefore knock back would be its main draw, not the damage, and this bomb is in no way a primary. Those who prefer to use swords and guns will have a new interesting style and way to approach a situation and deal with groups of enemy's. But most importantly, bombers will have a new way to support not only themselves but there team mates as we'll. this would give bombers a much needed way to affect the battle around them instead of in close proximity, and opens up ways for the dedicated bombers to keep themselves alive when they solo, and keep there fellow knights alive while they are stuck in battles of there own!

In fact, Another interesting idea would be to make a grenade style bomb for every type of bomb! Support bombers would be opened up to being able to lob status effects to other parts of the battle. Shard bombers will be able to cover a wider range of distance, and the blast bombers will be able to keep monsters at bay in at multiple distances!

Choosing a secondary weapons is always a hard choice to make without dedicating yourself to a weapon style. But this would break the barrier of hybrid knights and dedicated weapon knights and would undoubtedly be a huge draw to not only bombers, but to gunners and swordies as we'll.

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 15:35
#1
Tiraid's picture
Tiraid
1+

great idea! Not only does this sound appealing to a pure swordie, but I'm sure that anybody else who has read this would like it too!

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 18:09
#2
Akuryo's picture
Akuryo
o....o)~@

the bomb should have 2nd charge to be throwable like after charging, it charges a second time then you could throw it like vials(?)

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 18:43
#3
Dibsville's picture
Dibsville
+0??

Relevant.

Status?

Both aren't very protective close-up, but that's why you have other weapons. Like you said, it's more of a support, not a primary.

At least that would be the case if the charge attack wasn't expanded right when you shot it, giving it push-back without needing to be a certain distance away.

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 19:56
#4
Blastsite's picture
Blastsite
@Akuryo

The point of having it charge again after hitting the ground like a normal bomb is that it makes it possible to lead monsters and allows other knights to kite them into the blast circle. Though I do see that doing this with a status bomb would be redundant.

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 19:58
#5
Blastsite's picture
Blastsite
@dibsville

I don't think it'd be a very viable choice for primary either way. The point is for knights to get a new form of support without sacrificing their primary.

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 20:26
#6
Dibsville's picture
Dibsville

"I don't think it'd be a very viable choice for primary either way. The point is for knights to get a new form of support without sacrificing their primary."

From what I'm seeing, you're simply suggesting a charge-only Pulsar, but I'm probably overlooking the big picture... I'd actually love for you to tell me how this is any different.

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 21:16
#7
Blastsite's picture
Blastsite
@dibsville

Basically the grenade will work like a regular bomb in the charge aspect. But instead of one bar it has three (time for charging each bar would be somewhat short but not super long collectible). Each charge level is different. Bar one drops the bomb without causing you to stop. Bar two throws the bomb a short to medium distance in the direction the knight is facing and ignores making contact with monsters. Once it hits the ground, like a normal bomb, the radius reaches outward and the timer follows suit till the bomb goes off. Same for bar three but with a medium to long range throw. The big part I think I failed to bring up in the initial paragraph is that it would ignoring monsters as it travels through the air. Due to this it would work like a pulsar in a way, I see what your saying there. But more or less it's the timing and positioning of the lobbed grenades is what would make it useful. Plus the fact that you can throw it through/over monsters it would would be the biggest pull for group and solo players. Especially for solo bombers who will be able to engage threats without having to shove there way through lines of enemies, and it will set up blocking and position controlling very nicely. One aspect i also failed to mention is that in a way there will be sacrifices that will have to be made so that it is not over powering, making it a viable options for the game makers to many add. Reduced damage and reduced knock back maybe.

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 21:32
#8
Akuryo's picture
Akuryo
o....o)~@

i meant by my comment was instead of having three diff bars hanging around you, the charge bar would reset after the first charge then charges up again to proceed to the second then third charge in which one can proceed to lob the the bomb on enemies at a certain distance. (heck, why not implement a 3 charge attacks for swords/guns to unleash a more powerful hell on mobs)

an option for its detonation to would be: when it hits something

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 21:35
#9
Akuryo's picture
Akuryo
+....+)

idea: what if you could throw bombs by simply clicking the attack button but would have a smaller radius and its charge would be the current form of offense

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 21:38
#10
Blastsite's picture
Blastsite
@akuryo

I see what your saying and sorry for the confusion. My only concern with it is that some people may get lost with how many charges they have. Not to say that most knights fine them selves fighting blind, but I think having 3 individual bars would help make it easier to keep track of it. And 3 levels of attacks on weapons would be awesome. Do you think the charge times should take longer as you attempt the 2nd and 3rd charge? And maybe on the second charge increase the damage and on the third the damage becomes critical

Mon, 01/27/2014 - 00:50
#11
Ding-Dong-Die's picture
Ding-Dong-Die
It would also be cool that

It would also be cool that when you throw the grenade and hits a monster/player, it deals a small amount of damage kind of like the vials but more (vials only deal about 5-15 dmg or something)

Mon, 01/27/2014 - 01:49
#12
Blastsite's picture
Blastsite
@ding- dong-die

Thats an interesting concept. Or many that could be a new sort of sub type bomb in this line of bombs. Some are thrown and go through and some hit monsters and place themselves close by

Mon, 01/27/2014 - 05:54
#13
Jenovasforumchar's picture
Jenovasforumchar
hm...

I hope you are not suggesting that each bomb should be throwable.

Just imagine throwable Electron Vortex: Infinite suction, while shocking and all that without the biggest danger of vortex bombs: the proximity.

The current bombs are meant to hit many monsters around you with the danger of its proximity.

If you want to suggest completely new weapons (Grenades?) then you should think about a way to make them not beeing a Polaris 2.0, but giving them a place *between* guns and bombs.

This new kind of weapon...
-should deal obviously less damage than bombs because of its range advantage
-should travel shorter than its gun counterpart.
-its blast radius should be smaller than bomb radia but larger than gun explode areas (maybe excluding polaris because of the unique of this gun-line).
-because of its ranged ability, status effects (if available) should have a weaker power; similar to bombs and guns

Mon, 01/27/2014 - 08:49
#14
Blastsite's picture
Blastsite
@jenovasforumchar

Basically what you just explained are the limitations I am hoping for. Like I said It would be a support bomb, in no way a primary. So there fore the bomb would need to be fairly underpowered

Mon, 01/27/2014 - 12:54
#15
Vanguard-Xelon's picture
Vanguard-Xelon
more weapon ideas

Im lazy so imma just copy and paste what I put on my post :)
Okay I have been playing for some time and im a little bored of the current weapons and weapon sub-types (Bombs > Shard bombs, Swords > Rapiers, Swords > Heavy Blades) mostly because I have used a majority of them and it gets a little boring to own 2 or 3 of what is essentially just the same weapon but with a different effect

so I thought why not a few ideas on new forms and types of weapons?
EG: Lances/Axes/Shotguns/Grenades etc

for example,
Grenade
the Grenade would come under bombs and you would throw it out much like the enemy gremlin demolitions do
have a shorter blast range
detonate quicker the longer you charge them
They would detonate much like the Blast bombs
the blast itself would do normal damage and depending on what kind of grenade the shrapnel or after effect will deal another form
like a Fire Grenade that after exploding creates an elemental flame that lingers for a few seconds
or a Pierce grenade that works similar to the Shard bombs and the Snarbolax bombs but the blast deals normal and the shrapnel both deals piercing and lingers on the floor for a few seconds like a spike trap

Lance
The Lances would work similar to Swords like the Flourish Line, just that the pole area that is close to you doesn't deal damage or weaker damage (essentially your hitting them with the pole) and it hits enemies up to about 4 or 5 tiles away
Charge attacks can either work like a Javelin throw, do a multitude of hits, or maybe even jump on a enemy similar to Fizz from LoL or Kain/Dragoons in Final Fantasy, mostly normal/piercing damage but normal/elemental or normal/shadow types could exist
EG: a Trident alchemy line would be normal/piercing to start but at 3* or 4* you can make it into something like a Hades Trident like weapon that would deal part shadow + fire damage and the charge would be a stab that uses its three prongs to do a forwards stab and have to diagonal stabs on either side

Shotgun
work quite similar to the Scouts weapons in TF2, the normal shot would just be a tight or wide spread scatter depending on the weapon line your using and the charge would send out a few more shots that knock the enemy back, a tight spread charge would push in a tight spread over a great distance while the wide spreads would cover more enemies but have less knockback

Axes
Again like swords, more similar to the Troika line, the attacks are far more "savage" and can work as a 3 or 4 hit combo troika
Charge attacks would throw the Axe over a distance similar to the bullets of a gun, can hit switches
they generally deal more damage than swords at the cost of a lower swing rate
most of the Alchemy paths would be similar to the swords, like a Brandish for Axes where you get a fire ice shock and shadow one
or a Cutter line for Axes that swing faster than the rest and you throw like 3 out instead of 1

New Sword Line, Venom weapons
basically a calibur/brandish (yes I know we have obsidian and dread)
would look like a purple cold iron vanquisher/carver and have a green glow to it

New gun Line, Burst Pistol
think of the M93R from BFBC2, just a pistol that deals 3 rapid shots 3 or 4 times before reloading
would look like a mix of autogun and magnus

Mon, 01/27/2014 - 18:23
#16
Blastsite's picture
Blastsite
@tatsuya

I love the sound of the shotgun and axe weapons! Even as a bomber I'd love to see that in a team to diversify the combat!

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 23:19
#17
Agentz's picture
Agentz
BLARGH

@Dibsville: Every awesome bomb-throwing thread I see someone crushes my hope by referencing a Pulsar line. (nothing personal)~Z

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 03:43
#18
Aotr's picture
Aotr
@Agentz, +1

thought bomb are so different to the polaris you'll know that if you got one the only common thing is the explosion, thought all SK guns do splash damage so according to your logic they're all polaris which are bombs which are grenades

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 05:18
#19
Doctorspacebar's picture
Doctorspacebar
It's a Concrete Jungle out there

I love the Axe idea. Maybe the axe, in a sort-of-homage to Fire Emblem, can be thrown in a slight arc at the cursor before flying back around like a boomerang, much like the Hand Axe animation in the GBA Fire Emblems.

The Lance can be likely split into different lances with different charges. For example, the "General's Throwing Spear" line gets the "throw spear" charge, while the "Drake Knight Lance" line gets the "Jump attack" charge.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 20:27
#20
Dibsville's picture
Dibsville

"thought all SK guns do splash damage"

Alchemers are an example of guns that don't do splash damage.

Also, you can not compare any gun to Supernova/Polaris when it comes to the explosion at the end. It's basically a grenade, except a gun can travel in a straight line whereas this is limited to mostly one spot.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 01:27
#21
Aotr's picture
Aotr
@Dibsville

grenades arc and have delay after landing, polaris does not

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 05:22
#22
Jenovasforumchar's picture
Jenovasforumchar
non-splashing guns??

@Blastsite
I was diving into my thoughts and tried to limit grenades in a way so they would be a fourth weapon class in SK.
After all I don't believe a pure secoundary class would be often used until you can use it additional to the existing slots; why should you use it if other weapons get a higher effect.

e.g. Want to freeze Vana? why not use a shiva that freezes not only Vana himselve but also all zombies around. Well, if you want distance, why not use a cyrometer? This would additional deal more damage than a 'secoundary' weapon.

Here is my questions:
-What purpose does a secoundary weapon fulfill that isn't fulfilled already by other weapons? (Aside varity of course - though this would be a reason for me myselfe to use it ;))
-Will a 'secoundary weapon' require a 'primary weapon' slot?

Oh and something that I did just notice: to avoid to have literally 3 charge bars at the same time there should be something like an orb aside the charge bar. After one bar charged up one orb gets lighted.
it would look similar to this:
.______
._i____
._i_l___
_______o
.______o
._i_____o
._i_l___o
_______oo
.______oo
._i____oo
._i_l___oo
._i_l___ooo

After all charges are filled it would enlighten on the current way to show that there are no further charges.

@Dibsville
I am pretty sure that you are mistaken: each Gun can hit more than one enemy with a single bullet - even Antigua can do it if monsters are close together. You need to get your bullet with one well aimed shot exactly between two monsters. You couldn't hit a secound monster without splash.
Of course this will not work well if you use Auto Aim (blah, useless anyways :P).

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