Spiral Knights - A bit too convenient?

A bit too convenient?

22 replies [Last post]

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 01:02

Shoebox

Okay in the last update, 4 and 5 star items became untradeable.

In that same update, they added the Auction House, where you can trade everything else to make them yourself.
At a slightly inflated (or over inflated) price.
With the exception of Sealed Swords and Antiguas, which you now need to excessively grind for.

Then they brought up the cost to craft as well, by taking off a few thousand Crowns off recipe prices and sticking it onto the CE pricetag.

Now, with all of that in mind, for somebody to buy their way to Tier 3 is a bit more complicated and a lot more expensive.
But even if you gathered the materials yourself and paid the base price for recipes, the overall cost is pretty similar, give or take a few thousand crowns.

Though, even with all those items and with all that CE, you still need heat to craft.
Now, if only they released an overpriced item they could charge me a premium for, to get to Tier 3 with slightly less hassle...

Oh, here they are! Heat amplifiers!
Thank goodness you guys brought these out, or I'd have nothing to spend my disposable income on!

Can you see the pattern here?
Can you see what Market Analysts are doing to this game?

Free players just serve to fund the paying players with materials and recipes, the paying players just serve to fund the free players with their CE.
By playing for free, all you're doing is making it easier for paying players.
And they're going to try and turn you into paying players, by letting you pay exorbitant unbinding fees to sell 4 and 5 star equipment again.

It's ridiculous.
And more importantly, it's your own fault.
For thinking you could get away with powerleveling people into Tier 3 without them cashing in on it.
All these updates that are pissing you off? You brought them on yourselves.
You ruined the thing you 'love'.

And that's it.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 01:51

Syor

Legacy Username

They added more features

doesn't mean you must use them.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 01:56

Shoebox

This game's community might as well be a dog's arse.

The facepalm I am feeling cannot be expressed in worksafe words.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 03:19

OptimusPunk

Legacy Username

if I could post the .gif of

if I could post the .gif of Orson Welles clapping, I would, good sir.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 04:24

Tive

the issue is how conveniently

the issue is how conveniently the events line up.
sadly heat is still worthless as is the amplifier. Power to OOO if they get some sales out of it..

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 04:47

aeolianmode

Legacy Username

There's one guy in the other

There's one guy in the other amplifier thread that says he would gladly drop 100 dollars on it. So. Guess there's one.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 05:21

Tive

if he actually buys it that

if he actually buys it that is.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 07:29

Sypsy

*Whoosh!*

The direct object of the post has been missed by many. I saw that coming a mile away.

This is what you get for making things require a bit of thought when read, it's your own fault.
For thinking you could get away with sending messages to people without them figuring it out.
All these replies are disappointing you? You brought it on yourself.
You ruined... ...and that's it.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 12:19

Krokgar

Legacy Username

I'm one of the fans of the

I'm one of the fans of the crafting changes. It was completely ridiculous that it was cheaper (Heat AND Cost) to have someone craft the item for you than actually crafting it yourself. I'd pay people to level up my Avenger + mats for 500 CE, and I get a Divine Avenger. 500 CE is worth way less than the 45k crowns recipe. Then I could sell those Divine Avengers or use them. A new player had no clue about this, and they were effectively wasting money AND time by buying recipes. The change made it worth it to craft your own stuff, instead of it being more time and money consuming to do such.

This heat amplifier cost is freaking ridiculous though. I wish OOO is keeping track of how many are actually bought, because I doubt anyone actually is. You literally drop 100s of CE for slightly faster leveling. It'd be one thing if the cost was like 200 CE: It would be beneficial for those who play a lot and want to get the most heat out of their playing.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 13:30

Tive

@Krokgar

Wait, why are you a fan of the change that made it more expensive to buy and craft your own things in every regard?
Because everyone has to? Oh right.

Just keep in mind that that approach wont make you happy in life.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 14:21

#10

Krokgar

Legacy Username

Nope, you misunderstood me.

Nope, you misunderstood me. I'll try again. Try to keep it down on getting personal though; there's no need to be rude.

Before the patch: it was cheaper AND faster to gather the materials, pay a heat fee, and have someone craft the items for you than it was to buy the recipe and craft it yourself. This is absolutely terrible, because it discourages buying recipes, the biggest crown sink in the game. For a new players, it's disastrous because they end up taking way longer to get geared than they could be. They have no idea they could be getting gear in a cheaper and faster way. This needed to be fixed. Changing the recipe/energy costs was enough to fix this.

The problem is now that you can't sell what you craft 4 star and higher, there's no way for a crafter to make money. But this problem will be phased out when they allow unbinding. It will be way more advantageous for actual crafters, because they've invested in the recipes, and can sell the items at steeper prices due to the unbinding fee.

Do you understand the reasoning now?

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 15:29

#11

Frederf

Legacy Username

Presumably you also build

Presumably you also build your own car, farm your own wheat, and perform your own dentistry. There's absolutely a need to be rude when you express such a simpleminded viewpoint. If you had better ideas then you'd be less of an easy target. Crafting specialization is a good thing. It means people socialize, trade, and have cross-dependence. Solo-world is lame and boring.

The problem of the 4*/5* crafting being non-viable will not be "phased out" with unbinding. If it's still cheaper to craft your own stuff at that level because of the ridiculous cost burden of unbinding then the bulk of players will not participate in it. Would you pay 3000CE for a 5* item or craft it yourself for 1800CE?

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 15:35

#12

Ginzaki

Legacy Username

If I didn't have time to play

If I didn't have time to play the game (the major argument of people who buy their equipment with CE) then yes I could see paying 3000CE over 1800CE.

Though I do agree that crafting and selling makes the game more social, and in that regard more fun. I also think that there could have been a better solution for making rare items rarer. Like simply having that line of items bind on craft.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 15:45

#13

Krokgar

Legacy Username

You know what else is lame

You know what else is lame and boring? Making it so that it's faster and cheaper to have someone with the recipe craft an item for you than buying the recipe and doing it yourself. That was piss poor game design, and it's embarrassing you don't agree.

Actually, I know plenty of players who would pay 3000 CE for an item that costs around 1800 CE to craft it themselves. They pay the extra CE cost for getting their item faster and easier. That's the trade off.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 16:30

#14

kakelgis

Legacy Username

Would you pay 3000CE for a 5*

Would you pay 3000CE for a 5* item or craft it yourself for 1800CE?

If I managed to sell a plain (no UVs) Glacius at 350,000 crowns, (which would be 7000CE) and more recently a plain Gran Faust at 400,000 crowns, (8000CE) then that means something. Either that I'm pretty darn lucky, or the players are indeed actually willing to pay a ridiculously high price just so they can gear themselves up faster. I'm certainly not lucky, though!

This isn't all, even - I have seen several plain/crappy UV Silversixes/Blackhawks sell for 150k ~ 250k crowns, friends have sold GFs/DAs at 200k - 300k, several other high star weapons also seem to have sold for those ridiculous prices.

Of course, currently the stock is low and it's somewhat okay for players to go for those ridiculous prices - However, back when permanent binds were first added there were tons for sale, and I had sold my Glacius back then aswell. Once unbind comes in, I don't think there will be any kind of massive surge of five-stars, even less enough to "destroy" the five-star selling market.

Players are actually willing or crazy enough to pay those ridiculous prices for a premade endgame equipment. There are more Delcores out there than you imagine!

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 18:46

#15

Urganite

Legacy Username

Dunno, but I did see this...

You know what else is lame and boring? Making it so that it's faster and cheaper to have someone with the recipe craft an item for you than buying the recipe and doing it yourself. That was piss poor game design, and it's embarrassing you don't agree.

Soooo...in real life, you chop down trees and make them into a chair, because it's faster and cheaper than getting a chair at the store? The only person who should be embarrassed for standing behind their arguments in this thread is you. It's always going to be cheaper AND faster to get someone who knows how to do something to do it for you than for you to figure it out yourself, in real life and in every other place. That said, sure, plenty of players will pay for end-game items, too bad that won't really result in more CE spent by people actually playing the game. It looks like once unbinding happens, the game is going to be turning into a place for rich people to shovel their cash to look all big and bad with their 5* gear without playing while F2P players just don't bother anymore.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 18:53

#16

Shoebox

1. Make game 2. OOO 3. Profit!

@Sypsy: This is actually what I was expecting.

@Krokgar: No. If you're not going to read something, don't comment on it.

@TiVVV34: It's convenient how OOO is the scapegoat for these changes when they're only taking the logical course of action. Which is to profit from people's limited attention spans.

@Ginzaki: The problem is, by creating an in game system where you can pretty much buy in-game currency, without leveling and without any enforced progression, people can just use their money to buy end game items straight away.
That's the whole point of these changes. They want to profit from it.
Besides, adding the Auction House took much of the social aspect out of trading anyway.
So it's kind of moot to even bring that up.

@kakelgis: Hit the nail on the head.

Sat, 05/28/2011 - 01:53

#17

Tive

@Krokgar

okay so I wrote a long paraghraph but the forum ate it.

summed up:
"it was cheaper AND faster to gather the materials, pay a heat fee, and have someone craft the items for you than it was to buy the recipe and craft it yourself."
"You know what else is lame and boring? Making it so that it's faster and cheaper to have someone with the recipe craft an item for you than buying the recipe and doing it yourself. "

I dont envy you of that opinion. Division of labor is one of the core principles of living in a community (as well as basis of mechanisation) and 2* economy teaches that to the 12 year olds already. It obstructs your "point" which is pointing out OOO miscalculated the number of people reselling items, which is reasonable. But perhaps they should have shifted some of the crown sink aspect into the crafting, not as excessively as "30k+800ce for 4*->5* and everyone is on ones own"

[irony]Sure, they did fail to notice their system made it at all points for all players too easy to aquire 5* items, even for the imaginary player that never purchased or sold equip, just crafted his 5*s for personal use. Because even that player has to pay more now.[/irony]
Asides from that aspect, yeah, the economy was broken and they fixed half of it. (material market leaves room for improvement)

@Shoebox: They aren't the scapegoat but the entrepreneur. Just seems to me like they act too reactionary and uninspired.

Sat, 05/28/2011 - 05:20

#18

Bloodfetish

Wouldve preferred it if you

Wouldve preferred it if you couldnt buy 4/5* till you craft your own 4/5* items of that type.(helm/armour etc)
then once you craft your first 5* set your now allowed to buy/sell items of same *, but only to other ppl who have crafted up that high themselves.
This way your atleast working your way up to your first set and thus prolonging the game life as a player, instead of expecting the Dev's to add enough content to keep peoples interest.

this means for your first set, you wouldve had to of made it yourself. unlocking the ability to buy a few extra sets later on. save the effort having to make any set your might wanna try yourself.

As for rarity, theres 100 different ideas floating around.. Recipes only being able to be used to craft x number of items before dusting/disapearing.
High end mats becoming rarer, token trader no longer selling tokens so easily, recipes being harder to find, or spawning less often.

I dont particularly care anymore, im not expecting:
A- the devs to give a crap about players when they can replace us
B- the devs to focus on making more content when they can just take the easiest options(even when they are pathetic)

Since these updates happened ive seen my mist tank hit 100 multiple times, and even that wasnt enough to get me to spend energy.
It was on 100 a few hours ago when i logged and is still just sitting at max not generating any more.

had plenty of time to start back up on an old game i missed, and i grabbed World in Conflict now to play through, enjoying my time away from game.

as for this heat amplifier, i got my 5* gear, and apart from another weap im gunna make 5* later on which is already lvl 10, why would i need heat.
dont particularly wanna use any more CE then i have to, going through all that effort to craft more 5* gear i might not even like, or find a use for. just stick with the stuff i got. heat is nothing in a game like this as far as im concerned.

now if i planned to sell items, well.. if they need heat i cant trade em.. so no point in what ifs.

Sat, 05/28/2011 - 12:59

#19

Ginzaki

Legacy Username

@Shoebox

I completely understand that, but I know some people who bought there way into endgame who say that they wouldn't play the game if they couldn't. It's the mindset of people who have more money than time. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it's there. As for the AH with the exorbitant fees I am lead to right it off as a rather useless feature and continue trading in the old fashion way.

Sat, 05/28/2011 - 14:42

#20

Tive

like why.

Like why can't I use my primal sparks to make my 5* weapon glowy and add abilities. (replaces UV, 1 ability of choice max; adding more tokens increases effect/number of glowy elllements)

Sun, 05/29/2011 - 03:42

#21

Dirty-Harry

Just one thing

The only thing I'm a bit uncomfortable with is how hard it will be to get decent UVs now. Since the crafting cost went up that will mean mass crafting for UVs will be more expensive, and much less common.
It's already hard enough to get a decent UV, let alone a decent UV that will help you.
1/10 chance of UV item
60% low UV
60-90% chance it's not the UV that can benefit you/your playstyle.
I'm happy with the price raise and binding items since it makes 4* & 5* Items more rare and people can't just buy their way into it as easily as they used to, but good UVs were hard to come by as it is.
Again this is just a minor upset from me, since I'm guessing it will make endgame much further away which isn't always a bad thing.

Sun, 05/29/2011 - 03:45

#22

Shoebox

Considering there are slots

Considering there are slots there for multiple UVs on items, I imagine a future update will add more incentives to crafting your own items.
So crafting for UVs right now shouldn't be of too much concern.

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A bit too convenient?