OOO has been getting alot of heat for the recent changes it has made to make the game more accessible and playable for people who dont have money to spend on a game. Personaly, i enjoy being able to play a game for hours on end wothout any restrictions. Before, if i wanted to upgrade say a 4 star item, without spending any money, it would take me at least 3 weeks. Now, i can spend as much time as i want working toward that item and feel just as satisfied and proud for acheiving it. I may just be biased in the way i play and enjoy games, but id like to understand why getting rid of the mist CE machanic hurt alot of players. Can somone explain?
Somthing i dont understand
Wed, 01/29/2014 - 10:03
Wed, 01/29/2014 - 11:40
#2
It's not about the energy
It's not about the energy system, it's OOO abusing the forge system by making the radiant fire crystals (5*) near impossible to find in normal means, and considering you need like 50 on average for a guarantee chance to level up each gear piece, you can surely understand the frustration.
Wed, 01/29/2014 - 11:41
#3
It makes sense now
It makes sense now
Wed, 01/29/2014 - 14:15
#4
gods ain't gonna help you, son.
megawatt, people were complaining about this before the radiant drought, explain that.
I myself don't have problems.
Wed, 01/29/2014 - 14:31
#5
welp.
@Thunder-the-bright
Because people always whine about everything, there is always something wrong with the game no matter what they do, i mean look at Leagueoflegends for example, the community has contact with the programmers/designers HOURLY and they still complain.
But this radiant drought is a serious problem, i mean i created a new character from the ground up, and even with all the quest granted radiants and a bunch of tier 3 arcade runs i still coudnt level my weapon above level 8, let alone my armor which is STILL level 1.
I mean seriously how is a ------->>>>>>CASUAL<<<<<<------ player supposed to even level one piece of 5* gear to level 10.
Wed, 01/29/2014 - 15:28
#6
---
Basically OOO wants a lvl. 10 5* weapon to be premium content.
The only other people who can afford it (besides P2P) are people with way too much time on their hands or the elite who love these kinds of updates.
Wed, 01/29/2014 - 17:48
#7
my 2 cents
Let's put it this way.
I was paying 6$ a month to heat up everything wanted in that month....
I *should* pay 50$ to heat 1 stuff 5* lvl 10? You obviously can read my mind and the curse word coming out of it.
That's the real problem. Oh but F2P can do sooooo much more... until you reach the end-game. Then you realize you either play a month to get 1 item or you pay 50$ to get one... so you turn back on that game and find other one...
Loadout is launching in 2 days btw, and it's free...
Edit: OOO slapped P2P in the face enough to make us hate the game. I personally hate the game. Literally... I have 100 friends playing it and managing their Teamspeak server so it's the only reason I "play" SK.
Thu, 01/30/2014 - 08:02
#8
A demo
A while ago I found an old version of the game Halo on a the pc of a friend of mine, I played it for a few hours and when I was near something interesting the game showed some kind of commercial asking me to buy the full version.
During the past 2 months I've been playing Spiral Knights, it took me 6 days to get a full 4* set, but then I felt like that time a while ago when I played Halo on the pc of my friend, you either buy the fire crystals to be able to get level 10 of heat on your items or you are screwed and there's nothing much left to do except farming them at the FSC.
(The next part is extremely boring >.> and certainly inaccurate)
Some people would say "Beat Vana a few times and you should get a few radiant crystals", well, I played Vana on elite difficulty 10 times in a single day, this were the results: 1st: 5 , 2nd: 3 , 3rd: 0 , 4th: 0 , 5th: 3, 6th: 5, 7th: 0, 8th: 3, 9th: 0, 10th:9.
That's an average of 2.8 radiant crystals per run, if a run takes around(not confirmed) 35 - 45 minutes just skipping enemies without attacking them when its not necessary in order to progress and it takes more than 250 radiant crystals to heat up an item to level 10 then we're talking about completing a vana run 89 times, for an average of 5576.5 minutes / 92.9 hours / 3.87 days non-stop.
If an user plays for around 3 hours per day, it would take him about 31 days of playing Vana.
Please remember, these numbers are not 100% accurate, I would say they're close.
Thu, 01/30/2014 - 10:57
#9
right
Your radiant rates are pretty reasonable, based on my experience. Your time is reasonable, although expert players can run FSC faster. So your overall calculation is a good indication of the problem.
Edit: I didn't check the other aspects of your calculation, but Fehzor has checked them below.
Thu, 01/30/2014 - 10:27
#10
^Not entirely.
250 radiants should be 450, if you are to go with all 100% chances.
That said, you get 11K per vana run, and it costs 700 energy for 50 radiants.
700 energy = 7 * 7000 crowns = 49,000 cr for 50, or about 980 cr per radiant.
If each run gets you 11K+2.8 radiants, then not counting the remainder, it would only take you ~32 runs to fully heat a 5* item.
Still very much an issue.
Thu, 01/30/2014 - 11:21
#11
numbers
Just for more examples' sake:
453 radiants if you use 100% all the time and never get a double level up.
I'm pretty experienced and already have my 'FSC set' at level 10.
Here are my common spoils:
- Solo speed runs for me take about 25m.
- 6.5k cr gained
- 3 tokens ("3k cr" worth, if you convert to ancient armor and vendor it)
For my calculations, I normally have thrown in 6 radiants for an average, but I went ahead and put in 3.
So...
Time used per run: 25m
Radiants picked up per run: 3
Crowns worth per run: 9.5k cr (6.5k + 3k from tokens)
Energy worth per run: 135.71E (9500 cr / 7000 cr per 100E)
Energy per Radiant: 14E (700 E/50 RFC)
Total Radiants worth per run: 12.69 (135.71E/14E per radiant + 3 picked up)
Total Radiants worth per minute: 0.51 radiants per minute
Predicted hours for goal: 14.87 hours (453 radiants wanted / .51 radiants per minute * 1 hr/60m)
I also tried comparing speed runs with "full" FSC runs (kill all monsters, pick all things up) - doing that nearly doubles the run length despite making 3k+ more cr per run, but when prioritizing radiants, the quicker you get to d28, the faster this goes.
Of course, there are other ways you can speed this up; duo runs can split up and save walking time, slashing around 5mins from solo. You can join friends at d27 just in time for the boss fight - that can get you quick radiants too :3
But still, that's 15 hours of speed running FSC if we go with 3 radiants gained per run. Sure, it's more relaxing than the tedious alternative of fighting everything for 40-60 minutes, but that's still devoting all CR and Energy gains to buying crystals from supply depot (cringe). Paaaaainfully long.
----
Bonus:
If you can give me these numbers for UFSC, I'll be more than glad to plug them in, too. The spreadsheet I'm using also factor in CE used, extra tokens and extra money gained (ex: price from selling the materials).
Time used
Radiants picked up
Crowns gained per run
Tokens gained
Worth of shadow lair material (cr)
Thu, 01/30/2014 - 13:40
#12
@Thunder-The-Bright
What were
@Thunder-The-Bright
What were people complaining about? The forge? Because I can see why they would - it's pretty unnecessary and mostly serves as another grind wall to get through , although I don't find it as bothersome as the garbage fatigue system, since the crystals are fairly easy to find (except for the radiants, obv.).
The problem with this is that the devs can just make them so difficult to find to the point that you have to buy the crystals so you can end the misery, as you can see now.
A thing that should be changed about it is it allowing you to level up the gear anywhere in the game, since you're likely to level up stuff in the middle of a boss run (you still only apply the obtained heat at the end of the level), but most importantly, it should be optional, only to help you level up stuff a bit faster.
@Reednemer
Any game has its share of problems, and SK is no exception. Almost everyone hated the new shard bombs (which was nerfed to almost complete crap) and the new GUI (uglier IMHO) for instance, and they probably still do. And there's still older problems, like the arsenal imbalance (the 3*+ elemental Brandishes still deal more damage than the 3*+ Calibur vs neutral enemies, when it would make more sense being the other way around). And when you don't fix some of these, of course people will complain!
SK's not a perfect game, far from that in fact. And it's best for devs to be aware of those problems so they can deliver a more enjoyable experience. That doesn't mean they have to do everything people tells them to though (that would end as disgrace), but they shouldn't ignore them either, which it happens often in here (the shard bombs issue for example).
Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:18
#13
o....o)
hmm i have a suggestion and i havent given much thought to it but, how bout make monsters drop crystals by replacing the heat they drop (of course at a lower chance)? or even maybe the giant crystals we put on our backs could drop fire crystals as we hit it the 3rd time? and another suggestion would be excess heat could be crystallized into fire crystals
though this could potentially be good for another thread in the suggestions section, what do you guys think?
Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:23
#14
mebbe
^maybe, but not in this thread lol.
It's weird enough how a good amount of threads lately meant for asking questions or asking for discussion have ended up getting moved to the suggestions forum lol
Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:33
#15
u....u)
sorry
i think it's because discussions about a problem needs a solution/suggestion?
Fri, 01/31/2014 - 06:58
#16
gods ain't gonna help you, son.
no, that's what suggestion subforum is.
megawatt, the forge needs to slow down players, because without the forge they would blaze through the content in less than a week. and people never complained about the forge itself but only about droprates of crystals (first shinings, then radiants). the forge is not a problem, droprates management is.
Before 2013-07-30, elevators cost energy and heating was free. Now elevators are free, and heating costs you. At first glance, this is a pretty fair trade. In fact, players were fairly happy with the new system --- until Three Rings made radiant fire crystals so hard to get.
These radiants are so rare, and you need so many of them, that they are by far the majority of the cost of making a complete 5-star item these days. I mean, if you were going to buy radiants using energy (rather than finding them), then the energy cost would be far, far larger than the total cost of all of the recipes, crafting, and heating up to that point.
Basically, this game is now extremely user-friendly up to the 5-star level. And then the player hits a wall, where they must be extremely patient, or pay money, to finish the game. That's what people are upset about. Many players don't like spending money or being patient.
For more information, read any one of the zillions of threads about this.