Spiral Knights - Gunner/Bomber Shields

Gunner/Bomber Shields

7 replies [Last post]

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 20:08

Kesari

There don't seem to be any shields which offer much of a benefit, or fit the style of either gunners or bombers like the Thorn Shield does for Swordsmen.
Is this by any chance planned for the gunner update?
Swiftstrike doesn't count, that'll get you wrecked in T3.

It seems like this game has a hatred for both of these 'classes' when played as a pure role, as it's very often tedious to play as either one without swordman support, and even then, you only feel useful when your role is completely necessary for purposes of hitting things out of reach or crowd control, at which time all I hear is crying from the swordsmen, or they pull a valiance or blitz and do well enough with it.

I started this game aspiring to be a gunner, and there's even gunner armor (But none with fire resistance, ugh), yet once I reached that goal, I was left still feeling useless, as my teammates sweep the floors clear with brandish bursts and hit even distant targets with the Avenger, seemingly dealing 10 times the damage I can muster with an Argent Peacemaker.
Basically, my allies can deal in a few clicks what takes me 20 very tedious clicks to accomplish.

Not sure what is planned, if gunners are going to be buffed, made less tedious to use (looking at you, six shooters), or if more guns are just going to be added.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 20:53

Quin-Thunderwraith

well i guess swordsmen need

well i guess swordsmen need it more since they have the close combat factor. cause you dont really need a speciallization shield unless your bombing and shooting point blank

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 21:24

Mystrian

Also

They are most likely going to be running with a few bonuses and unique variants. I used to be a gunner like you, but then I switched to swords (it's all preference though). If you strive to be a good gunner then you maybe want to try getting hit less often (so I hear from ppl who run with swiftstrike buckler)

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 21:29

Zopyros-Il

Beep Boop

@ Quin
But the shields could be made to fit those playstyles better.
Gunner shields would have low overall health, but provide adequate defense against Shadow, which has the most projectile firing enemies. This allows them to defend against these ranged devils and still output decent damage.
Bomber shields could have high health, but provide average defense against Elemental and Normal, which has enemies that cluster and hound a Knight. This shield would allow Bombers to have a shield that could almost always bump, but also provide defense for when these enemies get too close.

It's just kind of terrible for balance and variety that they don't have these types of shields already, especially after nearly THREE YEARS of people asking for them. Swordies need less love all the time.

And as the OP mentioned, swordies aren't exactly restricted to close range combat.
Bombers are, but swordies have charge attacks that put the ranged offensive power of most guns to absolute shame. Plus, their armor already provides raw attack power (unlike gunner which barely effects their damage output sans Shadowsun) and deal the most damage anyways, so why they deserve another source of offensive power with their shields is completely beyond me.
It's all just really unbalanced and poorly thought out... :/

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 02:04

Corinthmaxwell

Ahem. >_>

Gunner shields would have low overall health, but provide adequate defense against Shadow, which has the most projectile firing enemies.

*points to Gun Puppies and Rocket Puppies* Having a shield with low health is almost as bad as not using a shield at all. >.> <.< >.>

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 04:45

Kesari

Crowd Control

Problem with gunner is that they are just about completely screwed if they are forced to fight in one of those tiny rooms with no space to kite.

Gunner cannot crowd control very well except with the pulsar which has a minimum range to do so, and the valiance which does normal damage.

Try getting locked into a tiny room with T3 Greavers, Devilites, Kats, and tons of traps... disgustingly difficult to survive.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 11:29

Zopyros-Il

Bep Bop

@ Corinth
Sees your Gunpuppies and raises you Howlitzers, Devilites, Spookats, and occasionally Greavers.
I'll also point out that Elemental damage can also come from Gremlins, Retrodes, and occasionally Mecha-Knights. But the Gremlins deal out a lot of Normal damage as well, Retrodes' beams are highly visible and easy to dodge, and like their brothers the Mecha-Knights, constantly try to close distance, which takes away their advantage with their ranged attack.

@ Kesari
The point of the low health, high defense aspect is that the Gunner can take a lot of punishment from these ranged sources, but none from the others. Maybe it would have been more apt to say high Shadow and Elemental with absolutely no Normal defense, meaning that if the Gunner gets into a melee situation, they're in trouble.

And gunners are at a disadvantage in small rooms, but they should know how to kite, dash, and keep their distance while relying on the rest of the party to pull attention. It's difficult being a solo gunner, but that's the price we pay for being able to pick things off from a safe distance. Enemies that can close that distance are a pain in the arsenal.

Also, the ideas I tossed out are just things I came up with in a couple of minutes. I don't expect them to be balanced or anything, but they cover weaknesses that each class has and are kind of different than most of the boring shields in the game.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 12:44

Tenkii

@Shields:
Swiftstrike really seems to be the thing of choice in T3 for endgame players: With enough experience and skill, the most you'll be using your shield for is for shield bumping, bashing, and maybe tanking a rare hit here and there.

Oh yeah, don't forget shield bash. Shoot a bit, enemies get close, shieldbash, fade back, repeat.

.Zopyros-Il:
Keep in mind that in T3, there isn't split damage, so a jelly will do piercing damage, melee or ranged. That said, you make a good point in that if you need to choose a defensive shield, you'd want one for the kind of enemies that are more dangerous. I was going to disagree with the 'shadow' comment in lieu of Gunpuppies being more common, but Devilites are more important to avoid.

@Bombs:
Bombs are situational, but unfortunately don't make very good solo weapons if you're going for speed. They can play very safely though. Nitronome can keep large groups of monsters from reaching you (no problem, compounds!), Vortex is a great support bomb for teammates that want to blast through waves of monsters, the haze bombs give useful statuses, and the shard bombs... well, I think they were intended to be like mines with their low knockback and all, but whatever.

ASI from swiftstrike makes the pickup/putdown animation (from a cancelled bomb) much quicker.

@Defense in general:
Many monsters have a certain wait period where they try to face you before they attack. Most guns allow you to move while shooting, which means you can keep moving and keep them from getting to the point where they will want to attack (and if they do, shield bump them out of the way). Mobility is the strong point for gun users.

@Gun choices:
The #1 thing that gunners should do is to avoid reloading - the most basic way is to pause after shooting (just enough for your character to put down the gun). There are also more advanced techniques to avoid reloading and give yourself more mobility/DPS (alternating guns with single-switch, or manually "reloading" the same gun with double-switch), but for simplicity's sake, I'll assume the most basic and pure form of using shoot-pause.

- Blaster/Antigua lines seem to be more geared towards single-enemy DPS than for groups since you can shoot more bullets before pausing/reloading (though arguably, AP's piercing charge can help out in corridors).
- The Alchemer lines with their sparser shots tend to thrive in groups due to the ricochet mechanic (ultimately doubling-tripling your shot's damage output in groups). By "sparse" I mean there's a slightly longer delay you'll have to wait if you're using the shoot-pause technique to avoid reloading. Now within the alchemer lines, the shock/freeze statuses can help when dealing with larger crowds of monsters. Alchemers give gunners the most crowd control/damage/mobility. Catalyzers give the most crowd damage, but have less mobility (charge shots) and control (explosions spread monsters out).

@the gunner update:
It was hinted that we'd have more damage types for guns, and new armors.

Search

Gunner/Bomber Shields