So I've been playing lockdown as a gunner quite a lot recently and some people have made this remark : stop spamming guns ; you're such a spammer ; can't you like not spam ? etc etc some even go out of their way to call me an AT gunner(when I'm using alchemers and sometimes when using vali).
So my question to you is, how is gunning even considered spamming while using the same sword like a gazilion times isn't ?
"y u spam gun u nub" Yeah Krakob is right. All those people are idiots. They think you are getting lucky kills every time, so they insult you outta anger. That's the Coliseum for ya.
My definition of "spamming" is doing anything in high frequency. Absolutely no connotation with skill nor lack of it - cause if it had connotations of skill, then wtf kind of skills are involved with 'spamming chat'?
I can probably shoot faster than most people, so I take pride in my ability to spam. I've met a few other people who can shoot as quickly or even put too much focus on switching technique than aim, and they didn't perform very well.
So objectively, if you're shooting quickly and frequently with guns, you're spamming them. If you're attacking quickly and frequently with swords, you're spamming them. No shame, just the truth. You can do it well and either deliberately move people or block movement options, or you can do it poorly, miss and die.
Now as for the losers who complain about it as if it has anything to do with skill, they're just butthurt scrubs begging for a handicap.
What do you want me to do, take turns hitting you, so it can be "fair" when you hit me with the more powerful swords? Hail[sic] no, I'm going to hit you before you get to me to make the most before that point, then I'm going to try to debilitate you with statuses so I can gtfo alive.
The most incomprehensible one is "omg bomb spammer". What are bombers supposed to do if not bomb quickly?
Sword striker "honor" and skill conventions are stupid.
If you come out alive, you've come out on top, and that should be all there is to it lol. War is an ugly thing.
Every weapon is "spammed." You don't see anyone swing/shoot once and then stop while going, "welp, can't do that twice in a row or I'd be spamming."
In other words, keep on doing what you're doing and let them wallow in their own inadequacy.
There's only 2 guns that I consider 'spamming' and that's Polaris and AT Sentenza/AP.
The spam element comes into play when there's an inequality in how effective it is vs the skill it requires.
Am I a butthurt scrub for that Seiran?
You're using some weird skill-tainted definition of it.
If you automatically equate anyone shooting those weapons quickly with lack of skill, then yes, you are being a butthurt scrub.
If I were to go with a competitive game analogy, Smash for example wasn't designed with hardcore competition in mind (and neither was Lockdown), but people still attempted to put the game in a competitive context. This led to some characters just being inherently better than others in that context (and the community ranking them in 'tiers' judging their competitive value), having more/safer/more effective options. When people are playing to win, does it matter if they do it with a lower tier vs a higher tiered character? Are people who use better characters any worse players? No, not necessarily.
In the same sense, Pulsar line offers a great walling option. If you take advantage of it, it doesn't make you any worse. If you're like me and don't take advantage of it, it doesn't make you any better, either.
Spamming those weapons can yield better results, yeah, but that's just a quality of their competitive value (or lack of balance).
So yeah, if I'm using unlimited storm driver using an advanced double-switch technique and hitting 80% of my shots, it's equally spam, just as someone double shooting polaris missing 80% of their bullets is spamming.
A bad Polaris spammer is easy to beat and so is a bad Antigua spammer, be it AT or no AT.
If they're hard to beat, there's actually some skill involved on their side or lack of it on your side.
I actually completely agree with the polaris spamming thing, if it's a bad spammer they'll get dropped almost instantly if not well they won't however with antigua if they are abusing AT it's sort of uhm, lets just say harder especially if they know to keep their distance. However I do agree with the definition that Tenkii has given in some ways but I tend to include skill sometimes into the definition when I hear 'spammer'. Any who, thanks for the responses so far ^^ Clearing things up for me big time
Feyi confirmed butthurt scrub.
Every action in a video game is repetitive, by that definition everything would be spam.
Hence the 'skill tainted definition', so we can at least pin down what people generally mean when they say spam in SK.
(no analogy towards other games needed)
It might not make you a better/lesser person, but it does make you a better/lesser sport. Just like the tiers in your Smash example.
Skill conventions ARE needed when your game is unbalanced.
@Krakob:
Yes, I lack skill. I am very bad at Ld. Or maybe, just maybe, those 2 examples are terribly unbalanced in such a way they don't require skill.
Do I need to follow Contri and Feller their example? You know, the AT brandish vid where all they did was combo and got a 15k average?
Some weapons require no level of skill to be way more effective than any others.
Those are the ones deemed spam by most, and also in my personal opinion.
First rule of LD: If it can kill someone, it's spamming.
AT val and AT antigua is simply way too easy to use.
Polaris has always been the easiest weapon to use considering the potency of its shock, damage, and ability to block entire pathways.
And i don't count this as "spamming," but it really annoys me when people just continually shoot hail/storm drivers until a status is inflicted, and then to run up and just double swing a heavy sword in my face. Idk, I find shock/freeze a little bit too powerful compared to other statuses (freeze more so in 1v1 situations)
Just to clear things up, the definition I'm using for it is high frequency, so no, not everything is spam - just the stuff that's done often in a short period of time.
And with that context/definition (hey, you never stated what definition you're using - we could be dancing about completely unrelated things)
"Some weapons require no level of skill to be way more effective than any others.
Those are the ones deemed spam"
...This just doesn't make sense to me. Yeah, I get it, in normal play, some weapons just aren't fun to have to deal with and you wanna call it something to demean and discourage their use, but I don't think spam is the word you're looking for here.
and honestly, I don't know either.
:|
_____
And i don't count this as "spamming," but it really annoys me when people just continually shoot hail/storm drivers until a status is inflicted, and then to run up and just double swing a heavy sword in my face. Idk, I find shock/freeze a little bit too powerful compared to other statuses (freeze more so in 1v1 situations)
Well now, they'll have to hit with those first lol. Alchemer range and bullet speed is terribad (in terms of having to deal with strikers and longer-range guns).
But that said, after the painful road of learning Recon when its shield was a one-hit-failure, I've operated under the impression that the gun ASI bonuses and deathmark were designed completely under the impression of sneak attack status assassination. I find it balances its mobility issues pretty well :3
anyone that complains about this low level stuff is trying too hard really.
most people's logic is that we should all play swords which is totally good for style diversity.
I think there's couple reasons why gunners get tagged with the spam label, even when they're trying to play tactfully.
Most people play with a degree of latency and most people aren't yet masters of predicting their opponents movements. This ends up with having to lead your shots, which on the receiving end looks like fairly random spam. When I watch other people's videos of them playing against me it looks like I'm sometimes firing shots wildly into the air like an Arab at a wedding when I'm trying my best to lay down leading shots to predict or block their moves.
Gunning against the different classes required different kinds of "spam" as well:
Strikers move so fast that you really have to lay down multiple shots if you want to hit them. It's easier to block them with your bullets than to predict them.
Guardians require a focused barrage of bullets to break their shield in time, and then they require around 10-15 more hits to kill. Obviously you can't be too casual about fighting guards because their shield will regenerate or they can waddle back to base before you're done killing them. To the guard you are an annoying gnat who won't stop pew-pewing at them.
With recons there are two main methods, the counter or the wall o' bullets. Spamming a giant radius of bullets in hopes that you'll luck out and uncloak the recon is probably the most common tactic because it's safer. It's blatant spam but then nobody likes being snuck up on with a gran faust. The counter method relies on the recon making the first move which is usually a sword in your back, but if you can dodge that then break his cloak with some careful shots and chase him down it'll look much less spammy.
As for swords.. well how often do you see people complaining about excessive FF and GF combos, brandish charges, or going full-on "tryhard" (what I like to call the blender technique: nonstop switching of FF and GF/brandish and just keep going till you hit someone).
I think you left out something, dutch.
Gunners are so good at what they do because they can hit enemies from a safe distance without being in any real danger themselves, unless they're fighting another gunner.
Gunners will almost always live longer than for example a striker swordsman, because they are able to dodge incoming swings and attack at the same time. I think that's not possible with swords because you stand still while you swing, even if it is for a milisecond.
sky and ground,
turns around,
SHUT UP !?!?
Poetry is good
Retequizzle is dumb
Batman is lord
Ground is rising,
Sky is falling,
This is going no where...
Bullets are white
Movement is read
You wa shock
You're already dead
@Tenkii
The word "spam" within Spiral Knights has developed a slang meaning which has a skill interpretation for most players. That's the one that feyi is using I assume
@dutchy
That's actually quite insightful and is quite nice advice in a way
@everyone
Today I ran into one of the players who thinks gunning is "spamming" so I got my recording software ready and captured this. He apparently disagrees that excessive use of swords is spamming and thinks forumers are idiots too.. Enjoy watching and let me know if you deal with any of these types of people
@"spam":
As it stands, I still don't have their definition of it. All I know is that there's some "skill" twist to it so they can feel superior by calling names, but what is "spam" to those people? Apparently high frequency isn't enough of a quality to be "spam".
[edit]
If using polaris very frequently is spam and using umbra driver frequently (or say, using Leviathan blade) isn't, what's the difference?
[/edit]
like, help me understand you :|
@video:
way to get trolled lol.
Aside from him making you mad, that's a classic example of a situation where you should just take it silently and prove your own worth lol.
By spamming in response to you*, he's pretty much downplaying you as a button masher:
- It makes fun of your gameplay (pretty much saying you're just shooting blindly with no skill)
- If you lose to it, it shows your own gameplay is inferior to that (pretty much saying your skill is at an even lower level than what he originally put you down to)
Just like any trashtalking, losing to something after making fun of it just makes you look worse. Leave the weight on his side.
Though if you really want to appease someone like that and you're significantly better, kill them slowly.
[edit]
*originally "the words argument", but from my experience with the same (enemy gets killed --> respawns as imitation), it's almost like they think you're only beating them because of some "cheap trick" so they'll return the favor on you.
[/edit]
It wasn't actually to the words of the argument that he began spamming. He began spamming because he kept getting killed by me or some other guy in our team. The lather match was actually like 2 matches ahead of the argument one
Example of spam:
Dr-Bugos is wicked fast with her guns, its pretty incredible. But her aim is....it could be better.
Lots of things will achieve spam rank in ppls minds:
Flpurosh spamming, GF spamming, hammer spamming, heart pad spamming, shield spamming, uaing striker boost spamming, changing direction too much, playing lockdown is spamming it, other stuff. Ok, not all those, but basically repeated use of any single weapon or set of weapons in one continuous pattern or alone for a time is spamming.
Gunners be like Ryu all ↓↘→+punch ↓↘→+punch ↓↘→+punch
Swordies be like Chun-Li all [tap] kick [tap] kick [tap] kick
Bombers be like Blanka all [tap] punch [tap] punch [tap] punch
Because people are butthurt when you beat them because they don't know how to fight a gunner at all. It's that simple, there's no logic behind it. Same thing with bombs.