Spiral Knights - Is the game really friendly to new players?

Is the game really friendly to new players?

40 replies [Last post]

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 17:14

Dibsville

Someone just recently asked me where he could find a Kilowatt Pulsar recipe.
My response was "You can find it from Basil at Depth 13."
And his response to that was "how do i get a basil at depth 13"
Me: "Depth 13 of the Arcade."
Him: "can i just go straight there or do i have to go through levels first?"
Me: "You start at Depth 1 or Depth 8 when you go to the Arcade..."
Him: "and how do i get to the arcade"

Now I don't know about you, but when I first started (back in 2011, though I quit for two years), I had the Arcade thrown into my face. The Arcade was the place to be. Amazing things happened in the Arcade.

But now there's people who don't know how to access it, or even worse than that, don't know what the Arcade even is.

Now, the above conversation wouldn't be that bad coming from an Apprentice or Squire, or even a Knight. But instead it came from a Defender Elite wearing Ash Tail. And this isn't the first time it's happened either. I've even had a couple Vanguards ask me what the Arcade is (not for lore's perspective, but literally a "what is the arcade"-type question).

How can someone possibly go that long without learning about the most important part of Spiral Knights? Everything revolves around the Arcade, and yet the game gives no insight into what it is. I even went back through all the rank missions up to 6-2 to see if any of them even hinted at the Arcade, and as far as I saw, none of them did. A couple mentioned the Clockworks here and there, but otherwise nothing. The only one that even remotely mentions it is the "Reporting for Duty" mission, which doesn't even tell people about it. All it does is give a base for the game's storyline (which most new people either ignore or don't care for anyway).

How is this game possibly "new-people-friendly" when it doesn't even teach them about the bread and butter of Spiral Knights? Do new people just have to rely on missions until they reach the Hall of Heroes where they're coaxed into paying real-life money just to upgrade their [free] Cobalt armour so they can move on quickly? I see new people ask for free gear all the time not understanding that this is an RPG, not some game you can rush through. You have to actually work for you gear. And yet they continue begging for new stuff, or in some cases they ask to "borrow" someone's equipment so they can complete their Hall of Heroes mission, not understanding that things bind when you put them on.

Everyone who says the game is now friendly to new people and how all these changes (Radiant drought being one of the first things that comes to mind) are supposed to support new players, you need to look at the big picture. This game does absolutely nothing to support the growth of new players except give them freebies that they'd have to grind for otherwise.

Just thought I'd go on a little rant there.

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 17:33

Blazzberry

I have no mouth and I need to scream

...

Oh the game is friendly to players that do missions.

The main issue is the game does not tell anyone of the arcade's existence as people just do missions from the get go and ask for boss missions they have not unlocked. But they are unlocked all the time for gate runs. Provided you have the correct tier access.

And it's astonishing how many players in game think they're privileged to just prance about anywhere.

The core of the game was based off the arcade and like you said, it was the place to be. Hopefully the arcade redux does something about this. Missions need to die at this point. If not that, get curb stomped like how the heat system somewhat did to boss missions.

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 17:43

Fe-Tarkus

It seems to me that the

It seems to me that the players you have mentioned are moreso the people who play phone apps; those who play simple games with extremely straight forward directions. Some people don't have the curiosity to explore the unknown, and if the game doesn't show them that this path is important, they just don't bother going over there. It's likely that all the people who don't know what the Arcade is, also don't know where the Bazaar is, or where the Hall of Heroes is (in Haven).
I think the game is friendly enough. It's a far cry from say Minecraft survival or something else. It has everything there for you to discover, people just need to look.

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 17:46

Skyguarder

I remembered someone who went up to me and asked, "hi do u know wheres haven?". I was in Haven Townsquare.

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 18:20

Seiran

we're old

How is this game possibly "new-people-friendly" when it doesn't even teach them about the bread and butter of Spiral Knights?

But you see, it was the bread and butter when we started.

The generation of players changed without you noticing, but now, new players are almost completely mission-centered.

The Arcade is an arcane thing that new players don't really see much of a point to (yeah, can you imagine doing 3-4 extra levels to get to a boss?!). Ranks have actual meaning to newer players (denoting progress and gear limitations) whereas to me, it's just a bunch of words (playing during the moment that fully geared players could be Defender rank from not having completed missions yet).

As far as things being 'friendlier to newer players', the missions system is a corridor of things to do with prizes along the way, and the removal of energy requirements means there's less initial deterrence from coming back after day 1, or even day 7. If you die once, you get a free revive. etc.

More conveniences make it friendlier to new players, but 'new' only lasts until tier 3 ;)

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 18:23

Poomph

6/10

Needs moar text, ask Arcknightdelta to show you the ways,

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 18:25

Arcknightdelta

@ Poomph

Nope. Keep me out of it.

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 18:29

Poomph

The pupil needs to be guided. He is on the path to darkness.

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 18:39

Fehzor

This would be my motivation for writing up this-- http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/95121
And this-- http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/94242

Yeah, I agree with you. The arcade should be the focus of Spiral Knights, where players log on and go out to explore the arcade. The missions should still be the bulk of the game for many, but "grinding" should be a more natural experience.

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 18:42

Arcknightdelta

respect is earned not given.

Might as well join in. I'll keep this short as Poomph is watching my every move.

One thing that would make me so so happy to run arcade again, would be the chance to get an Arena on most floors. I don't mind waiting for the gate to change.

Will bring back good memories.

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 18:47

#10

Mystrian

You sir have successfully been trolled.

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 20:18

#11

Klipik-Forum

@AKD

You say that, but if it actually happened, you'd get bored of the arenas pretty quickly.

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 20:54

#12

Rage-Pillows

@Klipik-ForumEndless Arena

@Klipik-Forum

Endless Arena vs Endless FSC?

But you'd be right for the most part. In FSC, every depth is different in stage design, focus, and maybe difficulty.

In Arena, the monsters would vary. If it was like the gauntlet, where the status theme changed with every room, it would be nice.

I'd do different missions for the payout.

On topic though, as of right now SK offers two choices to learning how to play the game. Missions and exploration. Missions are weird, long, and most importantly text-driven. People like to read, but not that much. Skip the instruction booklet. Explore! But to explore, you realize that the menu is the only place to get you to missions and thus the only place to progress. Usually when people play RPGs, you talk to the NPC, and then proceed. In this game, you skip the NPC or rather, completely treat the NPC as instruction booklets before a mission, and then do the mission.

If the tutorial part of a game is too boring, it won't have much of an impact on the player's performance. Exploring gives a different impact. Exploring gives you two questions off the bat: 1) What am I doing? 2) What do I need to do? ...More on this later when I can make a coherent conclusion.

You know, as a Vanguard, I never knew that the color warnings from monsters actually symbolize the whole Piercing/Elemental/Shadow/Normal attack until I stumbled onto some random entry in the Wiki.

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 21:00

#13

Mezuka

I must say,

When I first heard about the mission update coming up I thought it would be a side thing you do while still running the arcade, I never thought it was going to become the main focus of leveling up and progressing. In fact, for a long time I refused to do the missions because I didn't want to have to repeat everything I had to do just so I can "rank up."

I'd have to agree with you, arcade should be the focus of this game and missions should be a side thing you can do. We can only hope that the arcade redux will fix things, if there's one thing I miss its a lot of people doing arcade together and having fun. I know you can have fun doing missions and such with friends and all but the arcade is so much better :/

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 21:40

#14

Momofuku

You raise a valid point that

You raise a valid point that should also go into Suggestions thread: there should be a quick access FAQ in the escape hot key that shows a quick view glossary of what certain terms in the game mean. Players should NOT have to ask what Haven is or how to find Basil, and they shouldn't have to go out of their way to look in the wiki for these basic things. The fact that new players have to ask in Haven what these things are shows how non-intuitive the game is still.

It would greatly decrease the confusion about what Haven, Missions, and Arcade are--especially when people coming from other RPGs expect quest to be found from specific NPCs and are used to traveling to different towns/worlds. It should be phrased in a way that explains what all these mechanics are to someone coming in from other RPGs and avoid the story/narrative lingo the game throws at you when you are going through the basic missions.

Especially since most people want to skip through all the beginning text and play the game, and there's no way to go back/reference those things after you've passed them.

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 23:28

#15

Mayaura

Ahhh, sweet recollections

@ Dibsville - You seem a little a confused, as do several of the people who posted in this thread, and that's okay since the game can be confusing in some ways. More specifically, you seem confused about what the Arcade is.

The Wiki page says:
The Arcade is the district of Haven from which players can launch their explorations into the Clockworks. It is also the location of the Krogmo Alchemy Machine.

You seem to be confusing the Arcade with the Clockworks.

Your conversation should have gone more like this:

Someone just recently asked me where he could find a Kilowatt Pulsar recipe.
My response was "You have a small chance of getting it from Basil at Depth 13."
And his response to that was "how do i get a basil at depth 13"
Me: "Depth 13 of the Clockworks."
Him: "can i just go straight there or do i have to go through levels first?"
Me: "You start at Depth 1 or Depth 8 when you go to the Clockworks..."
Him: "and how do i get to the Clockworks"
Me: "You can access any gate of the Clockworks from your Missions, Arcade tabs."

Before they added missions, we had to go into the Arcade, but not anymore.

It would help to inform players in the missions tutorials about the meaning of the colors and symbols on the gate monitors, but most of us catch on to this eventually.

By the way, before they added arsenal pads, it wasn't so important to even understand the symbolism of the monitors since you had to play an entire stratum with the same gear. It's much easier now that we can change our loadout to fit each level.

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 23:34

#16

Dibsville

"You seem to be confusing the Arcade with the Clockworks."

I'm aware of the difference, but most people simply call the Clockworks the 'Arcade' (much like how people call the Royal Jelly the 'Jelly King' out of context).

I was fully aware of what I was talking about when I made this thread, but thank you for clearing that up for me. I'll try to be a little more precise next time I mention it.

Even so, saying the "Clockworks" would not have changed much. People still don't know what it is, even though it's the main thing Spiral Knights revolves around.

Mon, 02/17/2014 - 02:25

#17

Mystrian

It would've been ironic if

The conversation about the arcade was held AT the arcade

Also it's a good idea to NOT meet me in-game. I might ask you "dibs, how do I rev?" or "What's the key I press when someone revs me I fallen and can't get up". Just saying

Mon, 02/17/2014 - 02:28

#18

Scirio

90% of the players --> 'give

90% of the players --> 'give me crowns/recipe/weapons [] take me to vana pls'

Back in ye olde days I used to let people get away with it, but now that elevators are free? No way.

Mon, 02/17/2014 - 04:12

#19

Shamanalah

my 2 cents

Mist was more frendly once you get the hang of it..

No mist changed the beginning of SK but there are a major P2P wall that wasn't there before... the P2P wall was constantly in front of you with your mist and would be pushed back the next day since you had from 50 to 100 mist to use...

Now the P2P wall won't move, he's there and you have to smash your way through it with SLs and 2-hours sessions grinds.

Mon, 02/17/2014 - 07:31

#20

Whimsicality

Mist was also the reason a large portion of the newcomers quit after one hour of play, if not sooner.

At least now it'll take a few days before impatient lazy entitled brats get to the point where they have to actually work for their progress.

Mon, 02/17/2014 - 09:08

#21

Pipipipipi

The 4th wall shall be shattered!!!

it's more like SK is a sandwich, and the arcade is the bread. Without the bread, what is the rest of the sandwich? A MESS

Mon, 02/17/2014 - 09:40

#22

Mad-Wolver

Why didn't they just do

Why didn't they just do missions based on the arcade? Like instead of starting you off at the first depth of vana, tell you to do a whole vana run from depth 18 in the arcade.

Mon, 02/17/2014 - 10:24

#23

Seiran

Customization

@Mawashimono:
The Arcade is the district of Haven from which players can launch their explorations into the Clockworks. It is also the location of the Krogmo Alchemy Machine.

I guess that's another telling point of the pre-mission generation. You needed to go to the Arcade to start a run, so playing the game (before mission UI) was to play Arcade.
Though arguably, the window UI to getting to the clockworks does say "Arcade", doesn't it? Am I remembering incorrectly?

---

@Mad-Wolver: Why didn't they just do missions based on the arcade? Like instead of starting you off at the first depth of vana, tell you to do a whole vana run from depth 18 in the arcade.

So they can have cool custom scenarios like tutorial stages, story missions, danger missions, Crimson Hammer, and all that without forcing people to waste energy on extra or unrelated levels.

Keep in mind that mission rewards aren't given if you join in the middle of missions (after the lobby):

Remember that Mist Energy was a thing back when the Mission System was introduced, so forcing people to do all those stages in order to progress would mean slowing down people's progression artificially by means of wasted energy, and energy has always been this ever-present "paywall".

Crown payouts were/are still tuned to the old Arcade system btw: stratum 1, 3, 5 crown payouts are terribad and stratum 2, 4, 6 are better. You're essentially suggesting that when people get to missions that require second strata, they'd need to waste an extra 30-40 energy without making up enough crowns to buy it back. That's taking the 'issue' with energy-per-stage and making it even worse.

Mon, 02/17/2014 - 19:25

#24

Oroseira

/laugh

Oh boy I had a good show with this
I still remember old SK
I miss it

Tue, 02/18/2014 - 11:48

#25

Drischa

I had a champion ask me how to get a sealed sword the other day.

Back when mist energy was a thing, you couldn't go into the clockworks all the time. Because they couldn't go into the clockworks, people explored places they could go.

Now it's just sitting in front of the auction house and doing missions. We don't need to force people into the arcade, just encourage them to explore more.

Perhaps having things a bit more open would help. I know it would be a huge change. but having the auction house where the entrance to the arcade is now, and moving the arcade into the space where the action house now is, would mean that players would encounter the arcade before the main place where people would gather. They'd enter the arcade and find out what it is, rather then move up to see what the huge crowd is about, and discover the auction house as well.

Just some repositioning to make things more explorable in the right order. I think this would help hugely.

Of course now I've said that it'll never happen <:D

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 05:17

#26

Troll-Lolo

OVERDOSE TOAST

Ya know, today in Haven I thought, "Hmm, I should make a costume set that I could always wear, one that people would come to recognize as Green-Twister"

What does that have to do with the topic you ask? Well, all games need an aspect that can define them. It used to be the arcade, but what is it now? What SK's focus is is kinda scattered, a spine can't hold anything up if it is in pieces. We need a direction to go in. A path for the new players(and a friend asked me what a stratum was today, he was a vanguard) and future development.

One thing we need to get people to do is read the wiki, I learned a lot by reading those pages.

TL;DR Get people to read the wiki and game needs a backbone feature.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 05:51

#27

Whyna

Noobs opinion

Having experienced prejudice to free players (mist), It is sad to see knight elites farm JK instead of the clockworks, which is much more fun

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 06:22

#28

Valorai

Heart of Valor

I agree with the Troll.

I'll never say that again.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 16:45

#29

Leekcoco

I don't know what it's like now, but it was a mess when I started anyway. They never taught new players what everything does and how to progress without a lot of trial and error and eventually finding you need to consult other players or the Wiki for BASIC INFORMATION that should be communicated in game.

I think it took me like two days of time wasting in the Arcade to realise I'm not really getting anywhere and probably should be doing something else. If you came from playing other MMOs, especially RPGs, the usual idea is that killing things will generally always get you somewhere. In SK your loot essentially replaces your EXP as a necessity to progress. Instead of kill-level-progress, you have to do kill-save money-make gear-heat it-progress. The game could do a lot better in helping people understand these differences.

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 10:45

#30

Remove-The-Forge

How is this game possibly

How is this game possibly "new-people-friendly" when it has the Forge?

But yeah, I agree with everything OP's said
[failhtmltag][fontsize=0]And what I said, too. Down with the Forge.[/fontsize=0][/failhtmltag]

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 10:57

#31

Sandwich-Potato

How is this game possibly "new-people-friendly" when it has the Forge?

If you did any research whatsoever, you'll find it's MUCH more new-people friendly than mist energy's era.

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 11:42

#32

Rika-Eternal

Seeking out information.

Maybe it's not friendlier for people who aren't willing to do a little research/exploring on their own, but I still think that the forge paywall is better for new players than the mist system. Something about not being able to play, just for the sake of playing, always bothered me. When you ran out of mist you had to prioritize every trip into the clockworks. Will this be worth it? Will I break even? Sometimes I just want to chop up some slimes...

As for people who don't know about the Arcade, I can't imagine getting more than a day or two into an MMO without at least glancing around the wiki or forums, but that's just me. I don't think all the blame lies with the players though. The mission system really holds your hand, makes you feel like it's the whole story and when you finish it you'll know everything. They could (and IMO should) mention the arcade, the auction house, ect. in the opening story missions to encourage players to explore and connect with the community. Maybe they could even mention the wiki or the forums within the mission system.

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 13:34

#33

Remove-The-Forge

If you did any research

If you did any research whatsoever, you'll find it's MUCH more new-people friendly than mist energy's era.

I did. Note how I was being satirical on the nature of the thread. But don't get me wrong. I PLAYED during the mist energy era. I didn't think it was very new-people friendly. I do think the Forge is more new-people friendly. But if we're going to bring it up, we can all agree that the mist-energy era wasn't the way for OOO to go about their game. This doesn't mean I'm saying the Forge is better... It's just as bad. Just more new-people friendly. Which I suppose is better, but I can't say that otherwise I'd be breaking the first rule of SK sanity.

I still think that the forge paywall is better for new players than the mist system. Something about not being able to play, just for the sake of playing, always bothered me. When you ran out of mist you had to prioritize every trip into the clockworks. Will this be worth it? Will I break even?

And what's the point of being able to go as far down as you want, if you can't yet get into T2? Sure, you can play more levels, it just takes a hell of a lot longer to get to the next set of levels. As I said, the Forge isn't better... It's just as bad. Just more new-people friendly.

Now back to topic.

Even though the Arcade is somewhat predated, it still has use and is part of the game. People know how to get to the area with the guild hall and the sprite lab (which name escapes me), which is only really useful for guilds (which are optional (kinda)) and doing sprite stuff which is for the first few parts of the mission only, yet people know what that is and how to get there. So that's practically useless. And don't say "The Arcade is actually useless rather than [that place's name], which is practically useless," cause of the krogmo machine which lets you make the heart pendants. So it's actually useful. For these reasons, the Arcade should be part of the mission system.

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 13:45

#34

Sandwich-Potato

And what's the point of being able to go as far down as you want, if you can't yet get into T2?

You need at least 2* gear or usually 3* for Tier 2. Note that you don't have an item level requirement for crafting until you upgrade to 4*.

It's just as bad. Just more new-people friendly.

It's not just as bad if it helps get more players into the game and incites them to spend money on it.

[the Arcade,] it still has use

Where? Missions outmatch it in almost every aspect a grinder gives a slimy potato about.

By the way,

how do i get a basil at depth 13

I just noticed that, and now I realize how the Arcade is so bad the people don't even know the NPC's in there.

Sat, 05/10/2014 - 14:44

#35

Dibsville

Well.. I was walking around Haven, and I found this guy.

He knew something about the Clockworks.

But the things he says aren't exactly too helpful.

And that's assuming a new player even talks to him...

(As a side note, the snipes on his shoulders are really oddly positioned, huh?)

Sat, 05/10/2014 - 15:10

#36

Cinoa

I miss the old Arcade, it used to be so full of people and I hardly remember what it was like.
Now it's a barren wasteland and Feron probably hasn't talked to someone in a year.

Sat, 05/10/2014 - 15:15

#37

Dermog

@Cinoa

People still visit Sullivan....

Sat, 05/10/2014 - 16:44

#38

Hearthstone

@Cinoa

Feron sits by his desk, downing his coffee. He looks through his desk-side window and gazes at the free spirits of knights as they do missions. Then he wonders, "I miss my job."

There are still some newbies who actually know something about the Arcade and the Clockworks. Hell, they even know who Feron is, unlike this guy, in Defender Elite:

Guy: /points at Feron
Guy: Hey, who's this guy?

Sat, 05/10/2014 - 18:27

#39

Welux

*Random Noises*

I've never encountered this particular type of knight, but it leaves me to wonder.
Why not add at least 1-2 missions that require things you wont find in a mission?
Like maybe a material that you have to scour the clockworks for, and enemies that you have faced thus far in missions don't drop this said mat.

This would force people to go through the clockworks, heck, even a mission tutorial about the arcade in general would work rather well.
The arcade is in a convenient spot however, you can access it literally anywhere and everywhere, as its the last tab when you press M, so if you're looking for it, you'll find it pretty quickly.

Being rather still new to the game, i found the arcade at like, 4-1. Mainly because i just saw it on the missions tab and was like: "What's this? I don't have to grind missions?!?"
But it still baffles me as to why OOO doesn't capitalize on the main point of the game, and the main place you should be spending most of your time grinding.

Sat, 05/10/2014 - 23:47

#40

Xxpapaya

The papaya giggles

Archknightdelta-kun, you must teach this young grasshopper the ways of the Arcade! :)

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Is the game really friendly to new players?