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Rare monsters drop rare items ? and my theory about drop rate.

13 replies [Last post]
Thu, 02/20/2014 - 07:17
Ezio-Of-Almere's picture
Ezio-Of-Almere

I bet all of you noticed that sometimes the loading screen says that there are rare monsters in the clockworks that drop rare items .

As much as I know now , the only rare monster that has a chance of dropping a rare item ( maybe the chance is removed after they decreased the drop rate ) is the love puppy , but the loading screen tip says " Monsters " and " Items " , so is it just me and there are some drops from the imposto and the mew kat ( tell me if there is please ) or its just an old tip from when there were more rare monsters ? ( like tortodrone dropping that turtle shield thing ).

My theory about decreased drop rate :
Many people noticed weapon ( or item ) drop rate has been decreased after the battle sprites update , I think after they made the loot drops only for you and you have to collect it , divided the gear drop rate by 4 , why ? because they didnt want to make knights get as rare drops as easy as before with a party .
but why did they change it in solo ? , because they wanted to make the solo drop rate = party drop rate so people play more with parties .

Conclusion :
- if you played with a party in the old days , getting a rare drop chance is the same as getting it now . ( but seeing the drop now is 4 times rarer according to my theory since the knight sees his own loot only , compared to that knights saw the loot of the whole party in old days )
- but most players used to get these rare drops when they played solo as it was easier and 100% chance if getting it since all random stuff goes to you , but now since the Party = Solo loot playing solo to get rare drops is 4 times harder than old days , and is equal to the chance of you getting it with a party in the old days .

Example :
Lets say drop rate for a 4* gear is 0.1%.
Old days :
You were with 3 other knights ( full party ) and you opened a red box which dropped a 4* gear , you run towards it knowing that chance if getting it is 25%, other knight gets it .
sine seeing it doesnt mean getting it , then the chance of seeing is 100%( if it dropped ) but getting is 25%, so total chance of getting a drop with a full party is 0.1/4 = 0.025% , but solo = 0.1/1 = 0.1%
New days :
You were with 3 other knights ( full party ) and you opened a red box which has a chance of dropping a rare drop , since here seeing = getting it , chance of seeing the rare drop = 0.1 / 4 = 0.025% , and getting it if dropped is 100% .
party drop rate = solo drop rate , so getting a drop now when playing solo is 0.025% and in a party 0.025% .

Party drop rate didnt change after all according to the theory , seeing the drop is 4 times rarer ( getting a drop is not affected anyway ) , but solo drop rates are very damaged since getting item is 4 times rarer than old days.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 07:51
#1
Avenger-Of-Troy's picture
Avenger-Of-Troy
Makes sense

Also... TL;DR

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 07:59
#2
Skepticraven's picture
Skepticraven
Erm...

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/11128

One reported drop in the past 5ish months.
I think that is a bit less than 1/4 the previous rate.
[excludes love pup, since few seem to report that]

My theory? They removed rare item drops in favor of orbs. You now pick the item you got for free.
This may change after the arcade redux is finished, but we don't know yet.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 12:56
#3
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

@Skeptic
I know you don't like me, but hear me out on this one-

I don't think that they changed the drop rate at all for rare items as a whole-- I think that they removed the possibility of finding 0,1,2, and 3* items. These constituted the bulk of item drops, to the point where I only saw one 5* item, and maybe one or two 4* items drop ever.

We know that treasure boxes are dependent on the levels that they are from, and that levels and themes have item pools associated with them. We know this because we've gone through and searched for items... winmillion and friends only drop on treasure vault levels. Darkfang drops on gremlin levels. Wolver gear comes from slime/gremlin, as does jelly. The thread you posted has evidence of thiss.

My theory on rare drops is that they use sets of objects that are either bulked in with materials or are in their own category but most likely are bulked in with materials... to test this, we would have to document material drops. But either way, they are bulked into sets of items which are then added. For instance:

Undead = Graviton Bomb
Fire = Armor of the fallen

FSC = Fire + Undead; thus, we find graviton bombs and armors of the fallen. But if a level has one theme to it, then that doesn't mean less item drops.

Each item tier seems to have a rareness level based on type and a rareness level based on star level. While I cannot say what a formula for these things might be, these factors must be compounded together in some fashion, because I find a lot more materials in boxes than I do gear, and I found (before this summer's update) a lot more 0/1/2/3* gear than I did 4/5* gear.

If it is the case that they removed all 0/1/2/3* gear from drops and changed nothing else, then it would make sense for the number of item drops to fall drastically for those items, while staying the same for items like gran faust. The only missing piece is that no one has reported any 4* item drops recently.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 17:31
#4
Quartiq's picture
Quartiq
I've found a Graviton Bomb at

I've found a Graviton Bomb at the end of a danger mission (I think it was C42) back before the BS update. Unfortunately, as I can't remember which (didn't think to take a screenshot at the time >.<) can't officially debunk Fehzor's theory.
As far as item drops from rare monsters, you can check the wiki; players do a good job of keeping it up to date.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 18:21
#5
Espeonage's picture
Espeonage
@OP

>or its just an old tip from when there were more rare monsters ? ( like tortodrone dropping that turtle shield thing ).
This would be accurate. There were only a handful of relevant rare monster spawns to begin with, and those largely disappeared from locality over time. The love puppy is the only one most players will recognize or simply be able to lay eyes on these days.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 18:30
#6
Quartiq's picture
Quartiq
@Espeonage

Not entirely true any more, Impostocubes do now drop dapper combos and toupees.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 19:00
#7
Whimsicality's picture
Whimsicality

I've seen quite a couple of soul jellies in the past few months, my most recent one being just last week.

Doesn't seem to drop anything special, though.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 19:49
#8
Espeonage's picture
Espeonage
@Quartiq

Ah, neat. Their only drop of significance before was that gold crown.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 22:50
#9
Pandafishie's picture
Pandafishie
Just regarding the title

My Guild Master got a Toasty Combo from an Impostcube the other day. :P

Fri, 07/24/2015 - 18:25
#10
Armykid
As far as drops go...

The most recent drop i've had was before BS update, and a lichen colony dropped a cryotech 2* during a solo JK run. :T

Fri, 07/24/2015 - 19:30
#11
Bopp's picture
Bopp
once again

Please report your item drops at the official thread, not in random threads like this one here.

Fri, 07/24/2015 - 21:25
#12
Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle
I bet all of you noticed that

I bet all of you noticed that sometimes the loading screen says that there are rare monsters in the clockworks that drop rare items .

Love puppies drop Heart Pendants and True Love Lockets
Impostocubes drop Dapper Combos, Pipes, and Toupees
Mewkats drop Ghostly Aura and Vertical Vents
Black Kats drop Book of Dark Rituals

Sat, 07/25/2015 - 20:49
#13
Forest-Lord's picture
Forest-Lord
Before the

Before the forge/crafting/spark update I got a volcanic toupee from an imposta. Well, one of my party members did, I later got it from him for free. And I have seen and killed three or four impostas. One of my friends got a divine dapper combo on the same run as the volc i believe.

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