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Unbinding

18 Antworten [Letzter Beitrag]
Mo, 03/03/2014 - 13:58
Nexioo

Don’t you think that the trading system in Spiral Knights is bad?

The main problem is that crafting a 4* item requires a previous 3* item that is level 5 or higher, this means that if you want to craft a 4* item you MUST equip the 3* item first (in order to heat it to level 5), which makes the 4* item bound to you. And same thing for 5* equipment (when you craft one of them you need a previous 4* item that is level 10 first).

As you know, unbinding has a very high energy cost, this makes everyone who is selling a 4* or 5* item, they will sell it for very high crown price (at both the Auction house or by trading) . They can’t sell for low price because they would have lost crowns instead of earned crowns, as they paid so much (crowns or real money) to both craft and unbind the item.

How that makes the trading system bad:
1-If you want to buy a 4* or 5* item from the Auction house, you will actually realize that crafting that item by yourself is much cheaper than buying it from there (for example the total cost of crafting a 5* item is about 130,000 crowns, but people usually sell 5* items at the Auction house for more than 400,000 crowns).

2-If you want to sell a 4* or 5* item at the Auction house, then you MUST pay a lot of energy for unbinding it in order to sell it, this causes you to sell that item for a high crown price as a way to bring back the amount of crowns you have lost.

I Really hate that thing, the only way to get any kind of equipment in this game is by crafting (you can get equipment with tokens but they will become bound as well) , but if everything you craft is bound to you then the trading system is very bad.

Mo, 03/03/2014 - 14:00
#1
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Valorai
Heart of Valor.

Hm. I thought this was going to be a rant about the high costs of unbinding.

Oh well.

Mo, 03/03/2014 - 14:12
#2
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Whimsicality

Your tears are about three to four years late.

Mo, 03/03/2014 - 14:24
#3
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Seiran

Yeah.

Actually, there used to be a pretty lively crafting market years ago, before they made it so crafting items had a level requirement, forcing you to equip + bind them.
Crafting costs were also cheaper, and there was no cost to level up items (no forge system).
The only 'requirement' to play any tier was to have met the gear requirement at some point.

I guess at the time, it made progressing through the game (progress defined by how much content you could access) way too quick. After that, you'd only see a rare 5* item in the AH from treasure box drops.

Now, generally the equipment found in the AH are items with valuable variants. Their cost is mainly unbinding price + a bonus for the attached UV.

Weird quirk of the game, as it is now lol.

Mo, 03/03/2014 - 14:28
#4
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Usevnsevnsixfivfor

In a given MMO, or any kind of game, making your own gear should be cheaper than buying it from that shady guy with a chainsaw.

Mo, 03/03/2014 - 16:00
#5
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Retequizzle

it's designed to be a deterrent from people using SK like a giant game about trading, it also forces people to commit to a weapon decision

i rather like it

Mo, 03/03/2014 - 16:29
#6
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Bopp
the notorious update

To follow up on what Seiran said, the update that established the current behavior was release 2011-05-17: "Using a bound items in alchemy will result in the finished product being bound as well." At the time, this caused gigantic protests, numerous posts of "this game is dead", etc. etc.

Mo, 03/03/2014 - 17:43
#7
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Ultimaximus
@Retequizzle

I'm not fond of it at all. By making you commit to a particular item or armour, it means you've wasted considerable amounts of grinding (or money) and resources if you ever find out the item you wanted sucks or if you change your mind. The tremendous unbinding cost makes most items unsalvageable, meaning the only thing you can do is sell it to a vendor and start again. It's not a pleasant experience.

Mo, 03/03/2014 - 17:45
#8
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Whimsicality

Maybe, the game wasn't intended for you to become a merchant off of vanilla weapons! What a weird concept that is, huh?

Di, 03/04/2014 - 05:08
#9
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Ultimaximus
I'm not talking about profit,

I'm not talking about profit, I'm talking about getting a reasonable amount of your money back so you can start over with a new item on a stronger foot

Di, 03/04/2014 - 05:22
#10
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Sandwich-Potato

You can. Vendors buy your weapons for 10k for 4* and 30k for 5*.

Di, 03/04/2014 - 05:40
#11
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Mushy-Bucket
---

Trying to stop the game from being "a giant game about trading" isn't smart. MMOs usually have a massive market for gear (and everything else)... the problem here is that the only high-level weapons for sale are ones with relatively decent UVs or are event-type gear (BKC, OC, etc). It is pretty much an unusable market to the very people that would want to buy those un-UVed 5* weapons, 4* players. I always found the unbinding cost ludicrous, and that it really hurts rather than helps the game. Should be cheaper if they must have it.... I'm mean, if you talking solely about CE before the Orb update, a 5* would need 800 CE for crafting, and 5 times that, or 4,000 CE, to unbind... pretty crazy.

Di, 03/04/2014 - 07:48
#12
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Exerpa
Gear is funded through the

Gear is funded through the consumption of funny money, or at least it was prior to the new wave of dropped orb centric players. The system doesn't want you to get refunds on your assets, it wants you (or someone else) to spend even more.

That being said, SK is probably a good candidate for fully tradeable gear, if they can ever move away from the funny money life support system, that is. Crafted 2* and 3* gear is already tradable until you use it, the difference between 4* and 5* gear is small considering the 5* tax, and almost all gear is intended to become 5* anyway thus making lower stars only temporary place holders in the long term. If there was no bind or unbind situation the game could simply involve passing the same set of 5* Cobalt gear from one new player to another forever, but since they added the concept of knight rank and requirement of it to equip gear then this might not be true anymore.

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/8736
The official response to the introduction of DRM and Taxes for Gear as we know it today. Believe and/or disbelieve as much of it as you see fit.

Di, 03/04/2014 - 08:39
#13
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Momofuku

Because there are no skill builds or player level ups, the entire game revolves around gear and gear choices. This makes weapons not just something you make and buy, but also a very core component of your player altogether. This is what makes SK different than other MMOs which separate player development vs weapon improvement.

This makes the market for high tier equipment harder -- they know that unbinding isn't worth it unless the gear has good UVs/accessories, and they know vendoring is a rip off. They really want you to just keep your gear. The game would rather encourage you to build a large, varied arsenal, because buying/selling off your weapons is the same as modifying your skill build in other MMOs.

I have my own opinion on this (ie. some weapons are much more useful/versatile than others and discourages their use except solely out of boredom) but I get why they're making it difficult to get rid of equipment unless it has some real value (good UVs or good accessories).

Di, 03/04/2014 - 10:23
#14
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Seiran
@Exerpa: Whoa, I have not

@Exerpa:
Whoa, I have not seen that for a long time.

Nick: This action will change the nature of the market for crafted items into one for premium goods. A market, we hope, that will still be interesting to players focused on crafting and trading. It is better to be a trader in valuable goods than common commodities.

O_O that's exactly what happened.

Di, 03/04/2014 - 10:15
#15
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Legenddestroyer

Well, 4000ce isn't really equal to the cost of crafting a 5* item.

Di, 03/04/2014 - 11:09
#16
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Whimsicality
Let's assume you decide to buy everything with CE. Everything.
  • 50 CE to craft 2* gear
  • 200 CE to craft 2* into 3* gear
  • Roughly 115 CE to buy enough crystals to heat 3* gear to level 5 using maximum heat level every time
  • 400 CE to craft 3* into 4*
  • 2163 CE to buy enough crystals to heat to level 10 using maximum heat level every time
  • 800 CE to upgrade 4* to 5*
  • That's roughly 3728 CE
    * * *
    Not including recipe or material costs
  • Di, 03/04/2014 - 12:28
    #17
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    Legenddestroyer
    @Xyka

    I see your point there, but while grinding for the cr to craft the next star level, surely you would find fire crystals?
    I'm sorry for not being accurate, but I just think that fire crystals shouldn't play that much of a part.

    Di, 03/04/2014 - 12:56
    #18
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    Whimsicality

    You're paying using one of two things. Time, or money. What I posted is pretty extreme, but make of it what you will.

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