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Shield Damage Varies?

14 replies [Last post]
Sun, 03/09/2014 - 12:10
Shadowstarkirby's picture
Shadowstarkirby

I was trying to figure out which Tortodrone shield would be better in FSC, but have seemed to have found something unexpected when I was trying to see how many hits each shield could take from a Slag Walker: the damages would vary.

I've taken screenshots on Nether Shell's health after it's been damaged. I've had the shield take damage many times to assure that I'm not acting silly.

Nether Shield Lv 1: Swipe One

Nether Shield Lv 1: Swipe Two

For some reason, if I stayed still while I was swiped at, the damage dealt to the shield is greater, much like in the first photo.

However, if I moved while I was swiped at, the damage dealt is less, much like in the second photo.

The thing about this is, that moving around didn't seem that consistent. But I know for certain that unless you're moving as you're getting hit, your shield will take more damage. I've only tested this against the Slag Walkers.

EDIT: Title edit. I'm going to dismiss movement as a factor.

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 13:17
#1
Dibsville's picture
Dibsville

That would probably be accounted to only being hit by a partial part of the hitbox, thus you take less damage.

Hence, it was inconsistent because you were getting hit by varying amounts of the hitbox.

This would explain why you can tank a Vana mace with Swiftstrike Buckler, yet he can smash a Grey Owlite Shield in one hit.

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 15:29
#2
Drischa's picture
Drischa
I've seen varying accounts on

I've seen varying accounts on how status is applied to shields. Some say it is flast damage, others says if the swipe would have set you on fire, it deals the fire damage to the shield.

Perhaps it's a combination of both, and that's what we're seeing here? I find it very hard to believe that getting hit by different amounts of the hitbox will affect how much damage you take, and the only random factor on swipes I can think of is the status being applied.

Test with a fire resistant shield? I'll go do stuff with a level 1 savage tortoise and volcanic plate for comparison.

EDIT: @Dibs There seems to be a hitbox around vana's mace that applies knockback. For some reason this is slightly larger than the damaging hitbox, thus the non-damaging 'tink' when it hits a shield. I'm guessing that's what it is anyway, it's happened to me lots of times before, and I've seen people get knocked back in the same area as I was but curiously never noticed their shields reacting. Perhaps this is a clientside bug?

The only times I've seen it is with a stun-resistant shield though, so it could be applying just stun status. I don't know if vana's mace even does that. But I have a feeling taht SSB would survive a simple status appliance even if it doesn't have resistance to it.

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 15:41
#3
Dibsville's picture
Dibsville
@Drachronos

Yeah, maybe I should have chosen a different enemy. Vana has that AoE pushback even though the mace itself doesn't have to be touching you.

As a different example, it could explain why you can tank a Silversap hit with Swiftstrike Buckler, but that same Silversap can break a Grey Owlite in one hit if it hits straight-on. It's just taking less overall damage because it's touching less of the hitbox.

Mon, 03/10/2014 - 02:13
#4
Drischa's picture
Drischa

Sorry this took so long, but parents interviened and there was a brief period of sleep between me getting these results and me actually being able to post them.

So I took a bunch of screenshots of my shield bar after being hit by the standard swipe attack of a slag walker, the one they do if you stand in front of them.

Here's how the savage tortoise performed

And here's volcanic plate shield

Interestingly there was not that much of a difference. these were both level 1, against a slag walker on the first depth of FSC (D24? can't remember)

Then we get the Nether shell results

As you can see, indeed there are varying results from the swipe.
I was testing different distances, angles, all sorts. Nothing gave a dependable result.
The bottom picture/shield bar just shows that you can be standing right up against that walker's face and it could deal the lower amount of damage.

So let's see what these shields have:
Savage tortoise: Normal, piercing, chock and poison. Only one that could have been useful there would have been normal.
Volcanic plate: Normal, stun, fire. Again, only normal and fire resistance would have been useful here.
Nether shell: Normal, shadow, stun and freeze. On normal and shadow would be useful here.

So from looking at these we can deduce that either shadow defence or 4* rating are the factors causing this seemingly random amount of damage done.

I have a feeling that enemies can deal a random amount of their specialized damage. Maybe this is elite exclusive, on normal they deal a constant?

EDIT: By the way, the idea of 'different amounts of hitbox being hit' is dismissed. I literally cannot see this game having a mechanic as complex as that. I've never seen a game that has a system like that in place.

Mon, 03/10/2014 - 02:39
#5
Blue-Flood's picture
Blue-Flood

It's in place in several games. Super smash brothers is a prime example. The character Marth's sword has greater knockback with the tip of his blade as opposed to being hit by the center... Though I don't know about SK. Your best bet is to just not get hit :p

Mon, 03/10/2014 - 07:46
#6
Onekone's picture
Onekone

Though, it's unlikely to be here. By that logic Swiftstrike should break several times over because of Silversap pounding. On Grey Owlite - there was a research that status damage multiplies overall shield damage, causing it to break much faster -> breaking Grey Owlite as it have no freeze resistance. As Swiftstrike, this is probably Sonic-Mode effect (that one that keeps you 1 HP).

As for collisions, [note that it's purely speculation and observation, no source code was involved] - there unlikely to be collision boxes. Game runs on tile-map and infinite height cylinders and sectors
If by logic "different amounts of hitbox", then damage on our weapons shouldn't be consisent either

Mon, 03/10/2014 - 14:07
#7
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

I'm liking this thread. Nice work to everyone gathering data and running tests.

I'm interested in the shield damage being multiplied rather than added- I always guessed that a shield's damage would be found via a purely linear formula.. like in the case of a pure shadow + fire attack:

Damage taken by shield = [Damage from shadow - Resistance from shadow] + [Damage from fire - resistance from fire (all of it)].

The idea that it could instead be-

Damage taken by shield = [Damage from shadow - Resistance form shadow] * [multiplier for varying levels of fire resistance] never occurred to me.

Never occurred to me. How much evidence is there evidence for either being the case?

Mon, 03/10/2014 - 14:12
#8
Krakob's picture
Krakob

Quick, someone call 1-800-GLACIES!

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 09:22
#9
Shadowstarkirby's picture
Shadowstarkirby
Thanks for looking into it

Thanks for the shield tests and theories everyone. I think I'll edit the title, since the movement vs. non-movement sounds less likely as well.

Data (or math) isn't really my forte, so I don't have much to contribute in that regard, though I'd like to know if status triggers (not solely because the enemy has the type) have a hand in varying damage.

Maybe test on a Dust Zombie? I might do that myself.

...and calling Glacies would be nice too. Maybe he responds to signal rather than telephone. :X

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 00:30
#10
Shadowstarkirby's picture
Shadowstarkirby
Finally got around to it, aaaand...

It seems that status proc DOES has influence on damage dealt to the shield. Tried Gorgomega Lv 1 vs. a Dust Zombie on D24. My results in damage received was constant.

Gorgomega Lv 1 Swipe

So...yeah, that answers it.

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 16:48
#11
Drischa's picture
Drischa

But the why would the savage tortoise have consistent damage vs slag walker as well? Will test more, right now in fact.

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 22:24
#12
Shadowstarkirby's picture
Shadowstarkirby
Savage isn't consistent either

Savage Tortoise Lv 1: Swipe One.

Savage Tortoise Lv 1: Swipe Two.

It's definitely status proc.

Tue, 03/18/2014 - 06:36
#13
Skepticraven's picture
Skepticraven
↓

Yes, status deals damage. And most status attacks only have a chance of inflicting it (similar to how every hail driver bullet doesn't freeze enemies).

If you want to try and find out how much damage a status is equivalent to, Glacies has done lots of testing.
I've determined shield hp in this thread (specifically here).
In that same thread, I both describe and link to a bunch of other damage tests as references for figuring out exact damage numbers.

Tue, 03/18/2014 - 07:21
#14
Shadowstarkirby's picture
Shadowstarkirby
Thanks, Skeptic!

Actually didn't know that this stuff was covered already, thanks again! I'll look it over.

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