Spiral Knights - LD's Antitoxins

LD's Antitoxins

21 replies [Last post]

Wed, 03/19/2014 - 07:40

Autofire

So...my question is, why be nasty? Why lash out at other players when you win or lose? (Either taunting or saying that they're hammer spammers or something.) It kinda...sucks? I haven't been on LD much lately, but I assume that none of those problems have been fixed. And...when was the last time anyone directly addressed them?

If I mention something like this to someone else, they usually are all like "Yeah, why?" or something like that, if not worse. I can't get into a whole discussion of reasons in the middle of a match because, well, the timer's ticking. And that's why I'm making a thread.

My main gripe about it is this: It scares off new players. "Those noobs should GTFO anyway!" No, they shouldn't. You were a noob at one point, too. A'top that, the LD community is DIEING. We need more players. I mean, seriously, we used to have more than 100 players at one time, and now whenever I look it's usually barely scraping enough players off the floor for a couple of matches.

We need to show them at least an honorable side of ourselves. Certainly, smack talk isn't a bad thing, but directing it at everyone probably isn't a good idea. Throwing insults every step of the way makes you look like a jerk...

Another thing...spawn camping. Why? I really don't get it. This is probably the most ridiculous thing ever. Really, it's like putting walls around players until they quit. It's stooping quite low on the level of just plain bullying. You stop others from coming out of their gates, but why? Are you THAT scared of them? Do you not want to risk them grabbing another point when you can just dash over to them and poke them until they bleed out? Are you really that scared of a bunch of people who you managed to spawn camp? If anything, it means you have to lay off. You're probably dealing with new players, and you're giving them a bad experience, something which means less LD players.

So, go ahead, flame away. Prove me right: LD is full of toxic players that are beyond repair.

Wed, 03/19/2014 - 08:13

Sirkeeghan

I love playing LD its really

I love playing LD its really fun, more fun than pve imo.

Playing LD with a group of friends or your clannies is the best thing.

double swinging a rager with GF is absolutely hilarious.

Wed, 03/19/2014 - 08:19

Gyrruss

Hm.

It's hard to be the better man when you're swamped with toxicity, unfortunately. From experience, I've started using certain weapons and out of the blue I've ben called certain things. They don't even /know/ me, they haven't even /seen/ me, and you're already flingling insults? I really don't see the point of this sort of behavior, aside from making you seem like a cocky pseudo elitist that really has nothing better to do with their life.

At these sort of times it's better to fight fire with fire or simply not fight at all and take it like a (wo)man, but no one here wants to get their ego "hurt", because let's face it: PvP is really about ego and who can be the best at what they do. Could it be about fun? Yes. Could it be about silly things? Yes. Could it be about, y'know, teaching a newbie the ropes and tell them what is and isn't effective/popular/mainstream/ethically correct in these sort of games? Of course. But screw those things, let's stomp on everyone and reduce the population of PvP slowly; and then we ask why LD is boring and why are there no new players.

Anyway, this is mainly the reason why I wait certain hours and pick queues with people that know how to have fun without trying to make it seem like I accidentally entered the finals of an LD tournament. It's tedious, but I have fun this way.

Wed, 03/19/2014 - 08:20

Feyi-Feyi

You kind of bring down the level of your post by admitting you haven't been in LD lately, but still decided to write about how it's bad.

The people who have a bad attitude, by which I mean the ones who do it 24/7 and not just someone who snaps occasionally,
have always been the minority.
It's just one of those minorities that are very noticeable and therefore they appear to be much more of a problem than they actually are.

I can relate to what you're getting at by saying there aren't a lot of players on these days, but that's largely OOO's fault and not ours.
When I can straight up dominate 80% of the people in a general LD game, it's clear there needs to be either a ranking system or a training system.

Wed, 03/19/2014 - 08:33

Malkalack

Favorite Part Of LD

Is the look of a GF'ers face, when they realize your wearing FULL dread skelly set. That makes me laugh. Then I kill them with a sword.

Wed, 03/19/2014 - 08:54

Autofire

You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

@Feyi-Feyi

You kind of bring down the level of your post by admitting you haven't been in LD lately, but still decided to write about how it's bad.

I admit that you're right. I should have said that I mean to go play some LD soon and then revise this post.

Wed, 03/19/2014 - 09:43

Feyi-Feyi

It doesn't mean you can't have an opinion, and in some ways you're right.
It's just not a bad as you might imagine :D

Wed, 03/19/2014 - 14:10

Finale-Flare

@Malkalac What look on what

@Malkalac

What look on what face?
Unless your referring to the 6 eyed snarbos, or the BKC wearers who look like they just came out of a children's hospital with a stuffed animal. Or you webcam....

@OP
Rage isnt too present tbh, but still exists. Your post is full of pent up rage at LD, so lemme straightend out a few things.

LD only makes people who focus their life on it rage. When it comes down tto it, its just a game, and you gain nothing but worthless bragging rights. If it scares away noob, then i guess that just happenes.

If you feel the fire burn in your esophagus, then just close the window, and do something else like learn about the origin of the universe. Or other calming stuff.

Wed, 03/19/2014 - 16:49

Son-Of-Hades

omfg why do noobs keep

omfg why do noobs keep complaining about the LD community... it's like this in every single ducking game cheez-its stupid noobs they should just gtfo of this game >.>

Wed, 03/19/2014 - 18:04

Sho-Marufuji

Hellooo everyone!

Just thought I'd post some thoughts of my own, they're written below:

"My main gripe about it is this: It scares off new players. 'Those noobs should GTFO anyway!'"

Um, no one really says that. New players aren't scared off but by harsh words but rather leave themselves because they're dying half of the time and scoring little to nothing in terms of Damage which seems to be the tool of measuring someone's skill, or so all these rants say.

"A'top that, the LD community is DIEING. We need more players. I mean, seriously, we used to have more than 100 players at one time, and now whenever I look it's usually barely scraping enough players off the floor for a couple of matches."

We don't have 100 players as it used to be but were not dying. We still have quite an abundance of players playing and we're not "barely scraping enough players off the floor for a couple of matches." for sure. Well, unless on events. I like events.

"Throwing insults every step of the way makes you look like a jerk..."

I agree with you there.

"Another thing...spawn camping. Why? I really don't get it. This is probably the most ridiculous thing ever. Really, it's like putting walls around players until they quit. It's stooping quite low on the level of just plain bullying. You stop others from coming out of their gates, but why? Are you THAT scared of them? Do you not want to risk them grabbing another point when you can just dash over to them and poke them until they bleed out? Are you really that scared of a bunch of people who you managed to spawn camp? If anything, it means you have to lay off. You're probably dealing with new players, and you're giving them a bad experience, something which means less LD players."

Spawn camping happens in all games, not just SK. I feel like your treating it like that. Though I still agree that spawn camping is quite stupid and wrong. Your part about how it discourages noobs is sumthin' I already mentioned so I agree with you on that.

"So, go ahead, flame away. Prove me right: LD is full of toxic players that are beyond repair."

Aww, don't be like that man.

Wed, 03/19/2014 - 18:04

#10

Sho-Marufuji

/cry

I'm so sorry.

Thu, 03/20/2014 - 00:58

#11

Tempas

So about the spawn camping.

So about the spawn camping. When my team has all the points what am I supposed to do ? Just sit there in the middle of the map and wait for them to cap so I could go and kill them and then recap ? Also let's say I'm not using camera angle advantage to take down people during the spawn camp, how is it unfair ? Its the same thing as if they saw me on a point EXCEPT that here they have the opportunity to heal multiple times. I do see it as a terrible thing to do to newbies when you are bombing the spawn or shooting Polaris or something all over it but really if its a fair fight then I dont really see the disadvantage for them.

Thu, 03/20/2014 - 01:22

#12

Blue-Flood

Hey man, some games are just unwinnable.
Prime example - I just watched a 6v6 match with Tmdals on one team (the rest being people who seemed fairly new), against a team where every one of the people give me exceptional trouble. He could see where the match was going from the start, so spent his time just trying to be a human blender in the front ranks... not much else he could do.
You gota keep in mind that there are always other points to go to. The stubbornness of the team as a whole have won and lost games for me so many times... it is what it is. Branch out, open the communication lines, make some suggestions here and there to help out. One of the unfortunate sides of trying to help direct the flow of battle is that there is no hierarchy, and in the midst of frustrating battle your well minded direction is usually met with resistance.
Being in a game with someone else who is of like mind and actually wants to win rather then fight is key i think. Work together with the people you know will work for the greater good and hopefully the rest will follow!

and in the end... it's just a game :) chill bro

Thu, 03/20/2014 - 01:26

#13

Dragneel-Wiki

I'd like to comment about spawn camping and how nasty it could be sometimes...

However, in some cases, you need to finish a "pointless" match as fast as possible to catch up with something else or have the chance to play with "better" opponents. It's not the fault of P2P LDers that they are mostly stronger than the F2P LDers nor it's the fault of F2P players for not paying cash for the Perfect LD gear. Because, seriously, when was any PvP gamemode in ANY game balanced a bit? There'll be always factors that puts a group below others and they'll be treated as the "Noob Community", hence why when they achieve something by a miracle, the upperclass-men group will feel insulted and demolished by their supposedly lower fellows.

It's a human thing, no?

Mon, 03/24/2014 - 04:25

#14

Oroseira

You are a godsend, Autofire.

I have declared war on several guilds that exercise this kind of unfair tactic.

Mon, 03/24/2014 - 07:16

#15

Theirillusion

Seems like you've never lost a game vs a team who can turn a match around.

Mon, 03/24/2014 - 08:14

#16

Seiran

@reversals

People spawncamp not because they're scared of the other team, but because they're waiting for something to do.

But the people being spawncamped are rather stubborn as well. How many times have you seen this when you're on the trapped team:

6v6
- 2 exits out of base.
- 5 enemies are below base.
- 2 allies leave base and GO STRAIGHT DOWN INTO A 2v5 AND DIE
- 3 allies respawn and GO STRAIGHT DOWN INTO A 3v5 AND DIE
- 1 ally respawns and decides to GO STRAIGHT DOWN INTO A 1v5 AND DIE.

The sensible choice is to send 1-2 people (either as strikers to kite or recon to sneak) out of base to decap a different point (or two separate points, simultaneously). That gives the chance of splitting up that 5-person spawncamp team into something more manageable while slowing down their point gain. And if the campers don't split up to recap, then the people capping can successfully do their thing.

I've told those 'new players' this, and they continue to go down and die, thinking they can muscle through the enemy. No, they can't. Not even taking into account gear, they're far less experienced and they're going to get mauled if they try to go up against 2 experienced players.

Move like water and go the path of least resistance: cap elsewhere.

But no, they want to be the underdog then get mad when their own poor choices keep them waiting for a respawn timer.

Decapping/backcapping are really valuable if you're playing to win - even as a solo recon (--> solo means 15-20 seconds to decap and capture a point, recon meaning I spend a LOT of time walking), I've successfully captured 2/3 of the map (meaning the rest of the enemy team was sitting in front of base doing nothing) and turned a -50 point gap into +100 point wins. >_>

Mon, 03/24/2014 - 08:35

#17

Doctorspacebar

Now that's strategy!

Exactly as Seiran said- Think with strategy! Is there a huge cluster of enemies on a point? Well you aren't going to kill them all. Three or four (depending on if it's a 3 point or 5 point map) Recons or Strikers could do the job- one could distract these enemies on the point (hit and run Magnus + spawn barrier = Instant comedy!) while the others go off to backcap two points. Recons can even cover the points in Nitronome while they decap, to charge their cloak! Then, once the enemy team splits up to recap these points, your team can overwhelm them on the first point. And if the enemy team doesn't split up? Then they're outta their mind- you'll have more points than them!

Strategy isn't just for us Fire Emblem, Advance Wars, and Warcraft junkies- you can use it in almost every game! Sp'Knights, TF2, Minecraft... heck, you can even use a little in Super Mario Bros.!

Mon, 03/24/2014 - 08:44

#18

Seiran

drspacebro: In this case,

drspacebro:
In this case, Underdog doesn't give any bonuses :[

Random fun story, while we're on recons and strategy:
I finally had a game where I had 3 recons all following a strategy I had planned out:
One visible recon acts as bait while two wait in the shadows to cover it, then alternate attack and bait as necessary.

After a few games of this, we had the other team all complaining about how much they hated recons in public chat.

It was beautiful.

I want more recon friends.

Mon, 03/24/2014 - 11:06

#19

Doctorspacebar

Time to tip the scales!

I need to upgrade my Magnus, then. (I've got plenty of bombs already.)

What weapons did you use with this strategy?

Mon, 03/24/2014 - 11:49

#20

Seiran

Altogether, each of us had at least a heavy sword (take your pick) and a bomb (I think between us, Vortex, DR, DBB).

The great part about it was how none of us ever stood next to each other (so we had a smaller chance of a wide swing revealing two of us at once), and the fact that since one of us was cloaked most of the time, deathmark was always around. Heavy sword (and toothpick) knockback could each screw with their movement direction, and we generally assumed that if one person attacked, they would become the bait and stay visible, so there was rarely ever the "we're all cloaked but we don't know who will get hit next while he's randomly swinging" situation.

Tue, 03/25/2014 - 13:43

#21

Fangel

... I'll be a recon friend

I try to play fair and strategic, especially as a recon. When I have my DVS, I try to stick close to a source of shock. That recon bait tactic I'd love to accompany you for, especially if you had a shock gun.

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LD's Antitoxins