I've often seen complaints about the cryotech line breaking its own freeze on the second shot. This was one of the factors that initially led me to dismiss the line when I first tried it. However, the broken freezes, while potentially frustrating, aren't all that bad. If you fire both shots, the first shot may freeze and the second shot may break the freeze, but the second shot may also refreeze. The net result is the same overall chance of leaving the target frozen, only you've hit it twice instead of only once. The additional chance of a freeze-and-break animation effectively means nothing in the gun's effectiveness at freezing the target. If it was changed so that additional shots could not break the freeze, it could prove overpowered by allowing the gunner to continuously shoot an incapacitated target.

Note, I'm not comparing the 2 weapons types directly, just the way OOO organized the weapons. If handguns were to mirror the attack pattern trends that swords follow, heavy weapons would fire 2 shots, moderate weapons would fire 3 shots, and light weapons would fire 3+ shots. Examples of these each in turn are the Sealed Sword series, the Brandish series, and the Cutter series. As the number of hits goes up damage goes down. This balance of the number of strikes is a bit off with handguns. There are 12 different 5* handguns on the wiki. 9 of those 12 guns (I'm including the autogun series guns as 2 shot because their clip only has 2 shots :P) are 2 shot. 1 is 3 shot, and 2 are 6 shot. For swords there's 14 different 5* choices. 10 of those 14 are 3 swing, 2 are 2 swing, and 2 are 5 swing (10 depending on if you count the extra swing).

So... it looks liek one of two things is happening here.

1) OOO said "guns shall have no 'heavy weapons'" and so 2 shots is a gunslinger's normal attack and 6 is our fast but weak attack. The 3 just exists...

2) OOO did follow the same general pattern and so alchemers should be considered heavy weaponry, and the only moderate weapons gunslingers get is the blaster series.

Neither of those 2 theories really match up... why? For guns to really mirror the sword's organization the alchemer series should be the backbone moderates of the gunslinger's arsenal at 3 shots while 2 shots are reserved for the hard hitting callahan, iron slug, pepperbox, and blitz (yes blitz and pepperbox hit hard but only if all 6 shots land). If guns don't get heavy weaponry then what's that blaster doing there with 3 shots? Shouldn't every gun that's not a rapid hit low damage gun have 2 or 3 shots to be consistent? I can't tell what OOO was thinking when they designed the guns. Are they supposed to be weak or is this unbalanced? Going to my previous question, if guns were supposed to be weak (implies support weapon to be used with bomb or sword) then why is there a set of gunslinger armor? If guns are unbalanced then why hasn't there been even a single hint of a move in the past arsenal updates to shift the balance? What are we even supposed to be arguing for here? What are the "balance" issues that we're supposed to report?

I'm tired; I'm probably going off on a tangent now so goodnight.

@Trouserman: "The net result is the same overall chance of leaving the target frozen, only you've hit it twice instead of only once."

I see what you're saying, but if you fire one of the other alchemers you get twice the chance of inflicting your chosen status effect. Shooting something that's on fire with a fire bullet isn't going to put out the fire. Same with shock. Also, if you're in a position to continually hit the same target with that slow gun, you probably don't actually need them to be stunlocked. Anyway they could always add another fix (like shooting a frozen target with the cryotech doesn't reset the freeze, or does half-damage, or halves the freeze time instead of breaking it, etc).

Some guns are able to inflict some AoE (not including pseudo AoE where enemies are right next to eachother). However, all of the guns I'm about to mention only affect multiple enemies by random chance.

The alchemer series as you get it to a higher * level will send break-off shots on any normal attack (these only go back toward you and off at some random angle). This is actually about (but not quite) as effective as swords are at attacking multiple enemies. Swords weren't really made to hit multiple enemies either because of the knockback (they have the ability to do so though). The autogun series also has an AoE of sorts. It's not like the sword's AoE (sword AoE is such that if the sword does 50 damage then every enemy hit in that 1 swing gets 50 damage). The autogun series AoE is split by how many shots hit how many enemies. If every shot does 50 damage then you could potentially do 50 damage to 6 enemies, 300 damage to one enemy, or any split from there.

So really what you're talking about is that the gun's projectiles don't have the CHANCE to do mob damage. If we consider each projectile from the gun like a slash from the sword (excluding the autogun series and counting the break-off shot on the alchemer like the ghost swipe on the cutter), then guns are clearly at a disadvantage. No single projectile fired from any gun has the ability to do true mob damage. I've mentioned before about this with the suggestion that some (if not all) guns shoot projectiles that can go through enemies (might be more logical for guns firing PIERCING bullets). And actually I might be wrong about no projectile having the ability to hit more than 1 enemy because the iron slug (according to the wiki) is supposed to have a bit of AoE to it's shots.

Valiance

Summary: It's got a bayonet and bayonets were made for stabbing.

If you guys ever get around to changing the charge attacks like everyone's mentioned, make sure the bayonet gets used for it. Or, you could somehow incorporate it in the attack/reload pattern.

Weapons are content just like monsters/levels and variance between weapons is always a good thing.

All in all it's safe to say that guns are underpowered and a hassle to use (obsolete) and that gunslinger armor is awful as well. There have been enough debates/arguments about this, but to brush up:
Guns have no AoE, yet even Flourish's THRUST has AoE. Gunslinger armor provides little to no status protection, and is impossible to farm for UV. This explains why seeing a gunslinger outfit in the game is so rare... especially a gunslinger wearing Shadowsun.

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Alchemers

Summary: The Alchemers fire two slow shots per clip.

Given that most monsters love to dodge bullets, I don't understand how you're intended to shoot one of these with an alchemer at anything but point-blank range. I often switch to a sword just to finish them off since guns are so weak, and the alchemers shoot so slowly. Wolvers especially like to teleport away from any bullet in existence.

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Nova Driver

Summary: The only elemental alchemer without a status effect.

It makes little to no sense to use this gun when it's identical to a hail/magma/storm driver, except it doesn't deal status effects. Quicksilvers/Oilers/Ice jellies are rare enough that this shouldn't be a problem.. Maybe the nova driver could deal Sleep or have another bonus? I've never seen anyone use this gun.

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Callahan/Pummel Gun/Autogun/etc

Summary: You can't move while shooting.

I thought the entire purpose of a gun was to be mobile? The fact that most guns have very little range, do very little damage and have such small clips aside, this gun does not allow us to move while shooting, effectively reducing mobility, while all swordsmen rush ahead and knockback enemies, giving them enough time to recover from the final swing's delay. A gunslinger however, cannot deal knockback and cannot even move while shooting some guns. In COD for example, a heavier gun (ie Autogun) reduces movement speed (while idling or firing), where a light gun (Antigua) allows for fast movement/shooting). In this game, Autogun keeps you standing still while shooting/reloading, and Antigua makes you move at HALF speed while shooting, stop to reload. Although a player is using guns to 'keep out of the fray', monsters can easily catch up when you move at half your speed and have to stop to reload.

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/end rant
Sorry, Nick, but there are far too many problems with handguns AS A WHOLE for you to expect people to highlight individual guns. When you cannot strategically use cover, when enemies dodge all your bullets, when enemies can outrun you anyway, and when your gun is 5x weaker than a sword, there is ultimately no logical reason for anyone to use a gun when they can use a sword.

"No less then 3 guns on you at all times. "

Or... you know... not. Don't do that. I know it sucks that your preferred weapons arn't supported as a primary combat strategy, but that doesn't give you an excuse to waste 3/4 of your weapon slots on crappy guns and drag your team down with your dead weight.

ANYhow, I think damon180's post demonstrates the lengths to which gunslingers will go to at least try to be competitive, and yet despite that, as was so, ah, impolitely put, they still are considered to be underwhelming as specializing goes. I've seen gunslingers with three different guns, each for different weaknesses, switch to a Leviathan Blade simply because it was faster.

With that said, let's keep the bickering to minimum please? We're trying to present a calm, polite and rational front here, in hopes our sincerity will support our desire for change. I know the gun spec suck balls right now, or you want to defend your weapon of choice from rampant posters, but this really isn't the place. :P

Heheheh. You have a long and fruitful career as some form of professional mediator ahead of you, godmyhead.

I do see what you're saying, though I'm not sure doggedly using guns is necessarily the best way to convince OOO to take note. I just don't get the mindset where someone admits their fighting style makes them a liability, but then insists on remaining a liability because they like their fighting style more then they liked being useful in a team-based situation. Either they admit that their choices are holding their comrades back, or they undermine their argument by insisting that guns arn't "that bad".

And I'm not saying don't bring guns ever. Many sword-loving folk bring a sidearm for turrets and such. Bring two guns and your cowboy gear, sure. And if you (competently) use those two guns more often than most people typically use their single blaster sidearms, then you're not necessarily a terrible person.

But "no less then 3 guns on you at all times" being proposed as a standard loadout? Come on, now. Gunners will be stronger as a breed if they shoot that idea down before it can leave the hangar.

Subnominal isn't a word.

Guns have a few things going for them. A lot of the time in t3 everyone is running away from everything most of the time anyway, the fact you can shoot a few times while you do so actually makes your damage the same or higher then the sword that needs to wait for a safe opening to hit something once or twice before running more. When a high priority target like a mender is somewhere you can't safely move to, like the middle of an arena surrounded by kited mecha knights and spike traps, a gun can simply shoot at the middle from the safe kiting border rather then put their life at risk trying to rush the middle and attack/shield bump. Finally, shock status is the best status affliction and can only reliably be applied by storm drivers. Ionized salt bombs are unreliable for shocking and shocking edges are too low star.

That being said after making a half dozen of every type of weapon and armor I think I can safely say everyone should always carry 1 sword. Both for when you find yourself trapped in a mob of jellies 2 deep and cant shield bash your way out or charge a bomb without being hit and just as a courtesy for those depth to depth hum drum situations where you pick up a key or press a button and 2 wolvers and a silkwing pop up or whatever. Sure you could shoot them with a magnus but you're in no danger of being really hurt here and you may always cause dodge/burrowing or waste shots trying to hit a magically unhitable moving silkwing. Just end the fight faster.

The real question now i think is, is this a flaw that OOO wants to correct or should guns (or even bombs) always be more of a complimentary option on top of your swordplay and never a stand alone weapon choice? After all just because you have bombs and a boomerang in zelda doesn't mean you use them to the exclusion of your sword.

There are situations in which a gun is the ideal weapon. Usually these situations involve gun puppies or retrodes. Nothing is better against gun puppies than the hail driver. Not only does it do massive damage, but it allows the user to dodge the puppies' bullets and it freezes the puppy so a swordsman or bomber can sneak up behind it for even more massive damage. So guns aren't quite as useless as some people here claim, but they are very situational.

If the developers intend for guns to be situational, then they're fine and balanced. I never enter the clockworks without an alchemer (on myself or a party mate), but I would also never enter with only guns.

Gun: Alchemer Series
Summary: Low damage, slow bullet travel, tiny clip size/ROF
Detailed: The alchemer series is broken, IMO. No disrespect to the people who try to make something out of it...I've seen some very skilled party members make valiant efforts to use it effectively, but I'd still rather have a halfway decent swordsman or bomber than an expert alchemer user, based purely on their effectiveness/DPS. I personally stopped bothering with this line after my first experiment, because I found it frustrating that I can run about as fast as the bullets fly. EDIT: Apparently the bullets speed up as you upgrade, I stopped at the mk. II alchemer, though... Also, this line is limited to 2 shots as if it were some kind of heavy weapon, even though it does no more damage than my blaster.
Suggestions: Up the clip size to 3 and shorten the reload animation. Make its shots only ricochet 30-50% of the time (or maybe only on the last shot in the burst) to compensate for the increased ROF. Maybe increase the chance of inflicting status by a click or so. Make the bullets travel at least the same speed as the blaster line's bullets.
EDIT: Gigafreak pointed out that some of my info was misremembered and wrong. Corrected.

Gun: Autogun line
Summary: Can't turn at all while firing, why is the range so short?
Detailed: I understand why you'd root the player to the ground while firing this thing. Preventing them from aiming, though? Come on. Except for enemies that are backed into a corner or incapacitated by another player's attack, this issue renders the autogun nearly useless. The short range compounds this problem, since the closer an enemy is to the player, the higher its angular speed (the speed at which you'd have to turn to follow it)
Suggestions: Let the player aim while they're rooted. Even if you don't allow them to spin around in complete circles, let the rooted player at least have maybe a 60 degree fan so that a skilled gunner can land the entire burst reliably. Make the range longer (doesn't have to be as long as the blaster, but come on...)

Gun: Antigua line
Summary: Split special damage type breaks the 4* and 5* versions; Low base damage just makes it worthless, even against enemies it should be effective against
Detailed: I don't feel the need to explain about the split damage issue. I'm only like the 20th person in this thread that has mentioned it. The base damage of this gun is just way too low. For instance, when I shoot a wolver (supposed to be weak vs. pierce dmg) with my antigua I can reliably land 5 of the 6 shots per burst (the dodging isn't that hard to compensate for...just chase 'em against a wall...) at 18dmg per shot (yellow numbers, so it should be super-effective, right?). 5*18dmg=90. On the same tier, my blaster-line gun does 46 per shot. Even if I only land 2 shots, 2*46dmg=92. I'm doing a little more damage with general purpose, unspecialized weapons than I can do with a weapon that is almost purpose-built to kill beasts, and the only [small] consolation is that the antigua seems to interrupt attacks sometimes. EDIT: Further research shows that Antigua's base damage does actually improve when it's upgraded, but that improvement is counteracted by the split damage issue.
Suggestions: Increase the base damage. The antigua line is very costly to even start on (80CE * 8JK runs = 640CE minimum cost of entry); its performance should reflect that cost. Split damage issue: for weapons that do two types of special damage, the bonus should break more in the player's favor (again, performance should reflect the weapon's high cost...). For example, silversix/peacemaker would be a little more effective than normal against beast, fiend, construct and undead and a little less than normal against gremlins and slimes (this fix would reduce the necessary amount of adjustment to the base damage). This makes the weapon's damage type more like normal damage without giving up on the vulnerable/resistant mechanic entirely.

Item: Gunslinger armor lines
Summary: The bonus to attack speed is barely perceptible, doesn't counterbalance the disadvantages of the armor
Detailed: As I see it, the root of this balance issue is that the handgun attack speed property doesn't adjust the reload time, and simply doesn't adjust the firing speed nearly enough.
Suggestions: I'm giving up a pretty significant amout of protection or status resist or extra health if I choose to use gunslinger armor; make that sacrifice worth my while by:

• Bumping the gun atk speed buff to medium and/or
• Increasing the effect of each point of the buff and/or
• Making the buff also affect reload speed and/or
• Adding a clip size bonus for using gunslinger armor...

There have got to be a hundred ways you could fix this problem.

I stuck with mine past the Mk2 point, figured I should just point this out:

The difference between the standard 2* Alchemer and the 3* MKII variants is very small. There's basically no real change except for a small chance for the normal shots to ricochet and a very small increase in damage.

The 4* Drivers, on the other hand, are significantly better. Regular shots travel much faster, always ricochet, and the damage output more than doubles. I'm very happy with mine, as much as I can be happy with any gun right now.

Also, slightly more on-topic as regards helping gunners:

I really like the idea of reducing reload time and/or increasing clip sizes via Gunslinger Armor bonuses. I'd prefer guns to get some help across the board, reload times being a bit long overall, and many of them could probably stand to fire at least one more shot between reloads. If I have to wear gunslinger-specific armor to get that, that's something that might be worth putting up with. (So long as I can have some status resistance? Please?)

Alchemers: Ricochet damage (up to three hits with 1 bullet) and status effects are reason alone to pick it over a blaster. And in defense of the Antigua line they have the longest range and bullet speed of all the guns to make up for the lower damage (and the bit about chasing up against walls is completely useless in T3 since they all can just dig out of the corner as well as invincibility frames during dodging). Regardless, I completely agree with your suggestions.
This thread is nearing 100 replies, I hope at the very least they are being looked at because this is some solid stuff people are coming up with.

Swords should stay the DPS guys, but since they have higher DPS and the ability to hit multiple targets at once makes them an entire different level than the damage guns do.

@Aziraphaile

My 3* alchemers all ricochet 100% of the time when the normal shot comes in contact with an enemy or obstacle. I'm not sure why some people are hell bent on saying that it only ricochets at a reduced % of the time =/. Never once have I seen my gun fail to ricochet after hitting an enemy, wall, or obstacle. The only time my 3* alchemer will not ricochet is when the shot terminates without hitting an obstacle.

@kriegson

6 shots is far too much for a blaster type. Guns should be (and are meant to be) weaker than swords because the additional range makes the player safer. 3 shots is actually fairly balanced when you consider that 75% of all gun lines have a 2 shot clip (including the autogun lines). Honestly, 2 shots should be reserved for heavy guns while 3 or 4 shots should be used for regular guns and 6 shots or so should be used for light guns.

The autogun fires 6 shots in a normal shot and 15 in a charge. See the wiki.

The mob damage balance you're talking about is what seems to be the case right now, but the problem is that guns aren't holding their end of the bargain. To make guns kings of single target damage every gun would need a massive damage boost (to beat swords) and/or a nice clip boost/reload time reduction. I don't think that'd be very balanced on the damage side since guns allow the user to remain at range away from danger. This is why many people have advocated a change in the way guns handle mobs so that guns can take over the middle ground between swords and bombs (less damage than a sword, but more than the damage of a bomb, better mobbing than a sword, but worse mobbing than a bomb). It's hard to say whether that'd even be completely balanced.

I've been putting some thought into handgun balance issues lately and wanted to put in my two cents. These are the three guns I feel are the weakest relative to all other handguns.

Prismatech Alchemer

Summary: The damage increase is not enough to justify the lack of a status effect.

As an experiment, I took a level 10 voltech alchemer (2*) and a level 10 prismatech alchemer (2*) on a t2 dive. While the base bullet damage was more for the prismatech (by 4 on jellies, and by 6 on constructs at depth 9) the added damage from the shock status effect (~8 per tick) and the fact that it damaged all enemies adjacent to it seemed to make the damage increase from the prismatech negligible.

As a player it just felt more efficient and satisfying to use the voltech over the prismatech, which is a shame since I consider the prismatech to be one of the more beautiful hanguns in Spiral Knights. Adding a status effect (and decreasing the bullet damage appropriately), changing the damage type to piercing (since the alchemer line lacks a piercing damage gun), or having a more pronounced damage increase would go a long way to making this gun stand toe-to-toe with the other alchemers.

Admittedly, I haven't tried it beyond 2*. I will continue playing with both lines and see how they stack up as they get to be Drivers in t3.

Magnus

Summary: Low mobility and reduced ability to shield.

In my attempt to find a piercing-only gun for dealing with Devilites and Wolvers there were only two choices - the magnus and the needle shot. For wolvers it's exceptional. The low mobility and reduced ability to shield is not an issue. The stun, knockdown, and guaranteed dodge in t3 are excellent tools for support.

For Devilites, it becomes a problem. Stopping to fire causes a period of time where I cannot shield and become very vulnerable to the projectile attacks from the Devilites. I then have to run a fair amount before firing one more bullet. If it misses, then that's just free opportunity for them to hit me. I can still solo a room of devilites using only the magnus, but it's exceptionally slow and usually leaves me bloody and frustrated. For a piercing gun that seems to be made for dealing damage to things weak against piercing, it doesn't work for half the intended targets and loses a lot of utility.

I still love the gun though! I just wish it could be effective against devilites :(.

Needle Shot

Summary: Long periods of zero mobility. Monsters weak to piercing are designed to dodge projectiles.

As the other pure piercing handgun available, I had a hard time justifying making it. It has all the weaknesses of the Magnus multiplied, plus no stun and less range. Trying it briefly on devilites did not go well. I got hit far more than I hit anything. It was great for killing off yesmen and breaking crystals though :P. It was not fun to use, so admittedly I haven't gone out and played with it much. The pepperbox line seems like a better investment in the autogun series since the monsters it's good against stand still more and are less quick on the attack.

I like guns, and I was originally planning on using only guns (didn't quite work out...) but my biggest complaint is that freeze doesn't stay reliably.

I keep shooting an enemy once with my Cryotech Alchemer and then again, fairly quickly, I try to time it so I can see when they freeze and stop but 75%+ of the time I accidentally break my own freeze, which is NOT a good thing when only 1/10 or so shots freezes enemies. There are probably a number of ways to fix this, making it impossible to break freeze would be too good, so I figure making it unbreakable for a second or two would be helpful because otherwise it's almost entirely worthless. The impression I got from the few dev. comments I've seen are that they're open to suggestions but they don't want to over-commit to anything so if anyone has any ideas on how to improve freezing I'd love to hear them.

I was considering using guns that could stun enemies but the stun guns don't seem to stun on regular shots, the later stun guns seem to make you stop to shoot and charge shots aren't exactly combat-viable, in that they slow you, making you an easy target which violates the gunman's creed :P

My second problem is that some enemies simply aren't viable to be fought with guns, maybe it's like someone mentioned before that we aren't really intended to be pure gun characters but the fact that there is armor which solely supports guns implies otherwise. If these enemies didn't dodge so often and so unbelievably (they literally do teleport BEHIND me without even slowing their attack) then I would never have stopped trying to be a pure gun character.

Gunmen do have more problems than these, such as charge being unviable(slow charge and slows movement) and inaccurate, gunslinger armor being inferior to other armor types, guns having (occasionally) somewhat lacking range, combat areas are often built more towards swordsmen in that they are constricting and occasionally even filled with enemies to the point that one can barely move making guns out of the question.

Honestly, I can kind of understand gunslinger armor not protecting as well as swordsmen armor, but the difference is pretty large, even insofar as the bonus given to guns/swords. Also, as I mentioned above, the combat-zones are often not well-suited to gunplay in that one wouldn't have room to maneuver, reducing the gunslinger's mobility advantage to nil, making them almost defenseless and having no way to deal with it.

All that said and done, I still use a gun and enjoy it, but I wish I could do more.

I noticed something today.

Piercing Guns

Summary

The only 100% piercing guns available both make you stand still to shoot and reload with no ability to turn or move. For the mixed type weapons, those let you move while shooting, but you're forced to be stationary while reloading. The main argument will be with the 2 100% piercing weapons as the mixed type weapons are a little weird.

This stands in contrast to the highly mobile flourish which attacks very quickly. I'm a bit baffled as to how swords got the more logical part of the idea development team. Most monsters weak to piercing dodge (they dodge less now after this patch yay thanks :D but they still dodge). This means that something that attacks fast and can change directions quickly or interrupt a monster's movement is key. The flourish seems to accomplish this nicely. The needle shot and magnus don't... The Callahan does all right only because it has an extremely long range, but you're still rooted to one spot while firing. Seems to me that it would be more logical to have the piercing weapons be the faster guns while the energy firing guns be the slower ones. For a non-spiral knights example, take the Star Wars storm trooper repeating blaster vs the modern assault rifle. Those blasters fired at like what? 60 shots per minute maybe 120? Modern rifles hit 750 rounds per minute. Energy shots vs piercing shots, think about it.

Hah, I find it funny that thrown pots and vials have better range than firearms ><

The charge attack on the Callahan has the super extended range.

Needle shot vs. Pepperbox:

The needle shot shoots fast moving bullets half way across the map while the pepperbox shoots slow moving bullets barely half that distance. To me, this makes the needle shot more useful than the pepperbox, even though both guns are in the same tier (2* items.) I suggest extending the range of the pepperbox and reducing the range of the needleshot so both weapons are more in balance with each other.

The Prismatech line vs. other elemental alchemers

The Primatech line deals a little bit of extra damage per hit to make up for the fact that it doesn't inflict status effects like the other elemental alchemers do. However, it has the same attack patters and deals the same kind of damage as the cryotech, firotech, and voltech alchemers, making this gun seem a bit redundant in the game. There should be something that seperates the prismatech line apart from other elemental alchemers. Here are some suggestions I can some up with:

- The prismatech line could deal a random status effect, just like the sealed sword does.
- The prismatech line could split damage between elemental and attack, allowing it to be another choice for those who are hybrid gunners.
- The prismatech could get rid of it's extra damage and bouncing attack patterns and add an aoe splash at the end of the attack. The size of the splash would get larger with each upgrade, but it would never be as large the aoe caused by a proto bomb.

@ Zanoni

I noticed these differences, but not until I'd upgraded from 3* to 4*. The damage increase you get at 4*, in particular, is pretty immense. The 3* MkII's were still pretty lackluster to me, something I noticed even more when I still had a MkII Cryotech alongside my newly minted Shadow Driver. The MkII was better than the original, yes, but it really didn't feel like it was much of a step up. Upgrading to a Cryo Driver became a priority at that stage.

Wow. Thanks for the info on the Nova. I was expecting maybe a LITTLE damage increase that I couldn't see when comparing their charts, but not nothing. Ah well. I'll keep rockin' the hail.

On another note, I do have a balance issue after doing a whole slew of T3 runs.

The Silkwing.

I could only imagine the number of times I have shot at this thing with any gun, and the bullets just disappear. Not even being blocked by a monster near by it or anything. They just vanish - not even to continue onward and hit something else. Is there some hitbox conflicting going on where it terminates the bullet, but doesn't register damage? This happens with other targets as well, but it is far more noticeable when trying to pick this sucker off.

-Blueflood

Sentenza

Summary: It's usless

Okay, I have no idea what the person who made this was thinking. First off, the gun does piercing and shadow damage. Right there you've already limited the targets you can shoot that that won't get a grey hitsplat to gremlins and beasts. There is six monster families and it only does "normal" damage to two of them? And that's normal damage. It doesn't to critical to ANY monster family. Secondly, the gun does piercing and shadow damage. The slime family, the only monster family besides gremlins with shadow damage as its weakness, resists piercing damage; making it hit a grey hitsplat on any monster in the slime family once again. Okay, another thing... The gun does piercing and shadow damage, oh my god I can't believe it, that's so stupid! The gun needs to do normal and shadow damage, or just do pure shadow damage. It could be fixed so easily! But seriously one more thing... The only monster families that it can damage normally (gremlins and beasts) dodge bullets the most often. The last and final thing flaw with the gun is that is does piercing and shadow damage. If it did pure shadow, or normal and shadow, the gun would be fixed in my opinion!