Spiral Knights - Have Punch Auction UVs

Have Punch Auction UVs

10 respuestas [Último envío]

Jue, 10/09/2014 - 21:19

Deleted-Knight

This suggestion got me thinking about UV rolling.

The UV ticket system exists as a crown sink for uber rich people. Rich players waste lots of money on UVs. Upon getting a good one they then auction it, drawing more money from the "crowd". However, some UVs just aren't that desirable. They get constantly recycled on the AH until someone "consumes" them out of necessity or rolls on them. Players who aren't so rich save up just enough money and wait until the desired UV appears in AH. There's little incentive for them to use Punch. Punch should auction/sell UVs instead!

Proposed System
Each variant ticket will actually correspond to particular UV(s). Because different equipment are compatible with different UVs, the tickets will be divided into classes: Bomb, Sword/gun, Armor/shield. Assign colors to the tickets to code for each class. Red ticket for bomb, yellow for sword/gun, blue for armor/shield.
Examples:
Red two-variant ticket - Tool tip will show "Gremlin Dmg Increase Low, CTR Low"
Yellow three-variant ticket - Tool tip will show will show "ASI Med, Slime Dmg Increase High"
Blue one-variant ticket - Tool tip will show "Freeze Resist Increase Max"

^This actually makes more sense since the ticket acts as a voucher for a specific service Punch provides. He's doesn't just hammer recklessly and produce random UVs for money. It makes more sense that he can produce any UV at will but require you have the right voucher.

Punch is now an Auction/Merchant
Every two days, Punch will offer a limited selection of UV tickets: 10 single variants, 5 double variants, and 2 triple variants of each class. Their starting bid price will be 50k for single, 100k for double, 200k for triple. Their buy price will be ten times the bid price. Players bid on them, just like featured items on the AH. Once the time expires, new tickets are generated*.
A bought ticket is stored and does not have to be used instantly. It is unbound and can be resold on the Auction House.

*Chances of each UV are unchanged from what they are now. Unsold tickets are reshuffled.

Why this system would be better
- Getting the right UVs via punch is no longer left to chance. People who like to gamble can craft for UVs instead.
- Rich players can still dump a lot of money into the system due to competition. A valuable 3 UV ticket can sell for up to 2M crowns.
- Poorer players can still get good deals if they are smart/lucky, just like bidding on the Auction House.
- Players can choose what UVS to spend on, and what equipment to put their UVs on.
- UVs will be made more common while the good UVs are kept rare and expensive.
- It does not stop lucky people from getting UVs via crafting.

Jue, 10/09/2014 - 21:26

Turn-Me-On

I think having these very

I think having these very very occassionally would be cool.

But then OOO will offer 750 of them for 0 crowns and the game will implode

Jue, 10/09/2014 - 21:36

Deleted-Knight

Another pro I just thought of

This will give OOO more control over the number of UVs entering the system. An uber rich guy cannot rage roll 50 UVs on 50 different items then sell them all, flooding the AH.

Vie, 10/10/2014 - 10:51

Fangel

Eh...

I see what you're getting at, but I don't know if I'm on board with it.
If this is replacing the old system in its entirety, I'll say no. Sure, I may want a certain UV, but there is no pressure for me to stand around an auction house and bid on things against someone else who wants it. As of right now, if you have crowns, you can get a UV of any strength. Under the proposed system, experienced bidders or merchants will grab all the UVs of value. You wanted ASI High? Too bad, someone just outbid you by 100k crowns. And now you get the play the not-fun game of sitting around in front of Punch and trying to bid at the last second.

Now, if this auction house has "buy now" options as well, I might think higher of it. Perhaps every day, there would be a service that Punch would give at a reasonable price, and refreshes this offer every hour. So in total, there would be 24 chances that day for you to get your desired UV. Perhaps there should be a safeguard on those so that you cannot buy more than 1 of those tickets that day. Granted, people might use alts, but if you make the tickets bound upon being acquired, it will work nicely.

Vie, 10/10/2014 - 13:31

Deleted-Knight

@Fangel

1. I think you missed the line: "Their buy price will be ten times the bid price. "
The buy-now option has to be expensive so not anyone can just buy-out ASI VH.

2. Are you really that lucky that you roll UVs more often than buying them from the AH? That's the point I was making in the beginning. Most people already depend on the Auction house to get UVs. Punch, as he is now, is horribly unreliable.
Yeah, you can always hope, but statistically you are not getting a good deal every time you roll.

Vie, 10/10/2014 - 13:57

Eltrooper

Eltrooper Shrugs

I see a big problem: What I see is a cap of cr value for a 3 UV ticket at 2m crowns. That means that the only way to "buy now" is to have 2m crowns and spend them on one UV ticket. Unless the system never allows the price to get that high due to time, only the "rich players" would be able to get the UV ticket instantly. Unless I am missing something, that is the biggest flaw in the system you created. Maybe have the "buy now" value increase over time? But that would lead to "rich players" just buying the ticket for the "buy now" price and not letting others even bid on it... I have no solution :(

I like Fangel's "reasonable deal" idea that refreshes every hour. But if there is only one given every hour, someone may just buy it instantly for the "buy now" price.
~Elt

Vie, 10/10/2014 - 17:04

Fangel

Honestly I want that.

If we could have one "buy now" every hour, that would make it a lot more accessible to players. Hourly UVs also make sure that players all over the world can access the UV of the day, not just one or two rich folk.

What makes me deter from this suggestion is the idea that we are decreasing randomness by inflating the prices and time involved with getting a UV. As of now, getting the UV you want takes your own time and effort playing the game. Under this suggestion, those who don't like to get involved in auction house trading but still like to test their luck occasionally their favorite gear can do so. I'm not terribly lucky with Punch, and I only really give him a visit whenever I find myself in possession of a UV ticket from boxes, but I am not one who really likes to idle around in front of the auction house hoping that people don't outbid me for an item I want.

1. I think you missed the line: "Their buy price will be ten times the bid price. "
Also I did miss that line... However it doesn't mean richer folk can't just bid high to begin with. Basically the system changes from "Oh, I have a large stack of cash. I think I'll try to get a good UV from Punch!" to "Oh, I have a large stack of cash. I'll wait for the UV I want to show up on Punch's list then bid super high so I can get it!" The difference here is that those with just over 20,000 crowns and those with millions all have the same odds to get a good/bad UV, whereas under the proposed system the person with a little over 20,000 crowns won't stand a chance to someone who has hundreds of thousands. Essentially, it's turning a RNG into a P2W market.

I want to point out that having a "Buy now" that goes up to 15 million crowns won't stop people with 15 million crowns from spending it... And all it does it cut out the players without that money from getting an item like that. The players who roll for ASI: VH on all their items will be able to buy ASI: VH tickets.

Hence, I believe if we turn to a system like this, we keep the old system in place. Have a stranger or a new gremlin be in charge of these auctions. They will auction off up to high (and rarely high) UVs, and on an hourly cycle. Every hour, the NPC will add something new for any item that was taken, or switch out anything that has been in the house for 4 hours (AKA, medium times on everything). Randomization will be the same as Punch's randomization... So expect to check back every hour. This way, it allows players to get good UVs, but keeps the best ones a premium for those who roll with Punch or craft the item. Hey, this would give end-game players a reason to log on every day too...

Vie, 10/10/2014 - 21:34

Deleted-Knight

Whatever it's just hypothetical

RNG gives people the illusion of affordable UVs. 90% of the time, you roll a crap UV. The money you put in is effectively wasted. The next time you get that 20k, it happens again, etc. When you finally get that awesome UV it feels like you got a great deal, but if you consider all the other failed attempts, you actually paid quite a lot for it.

It's the difference between gambling to hit it rich and saving up money. Rich people rarely need to save money and they can afford to gamble a lot. Right now poor people are forced to gamble or buy off of rich people. The proposed system makes both rich and poor buy from OOO. The exact daily supply isn't important. OOO can probably expand it if UVs are being sold out too quickly. I'm just throwing the idea out there to make the system less based on gambling and more on free trade. It gives players more control and freedom in building their perfect gear without sacrificing an important crown sink.

@Fangel's hourly deal
It sounds like a good system for the players, however that may make the UVs less of a crown sink. How do you know everybody won't just rely on the reasonable deal and stop paying big money for UVs?

Vie, 10/10/2014 - 23:39

Fehzor

But why is what we have not working? Three SEGAs very much wants to make the game into a casino, and the Unfair adVantage shop isn't such a terrible place to do it compared to say, if they implemented a literal casino and forced you to gamble for the gear that they were holding hostage there.

Sáb, 10/11/2014 - 13:17

Fangel

How do I put it...

Basically, as it is right now, both poor and rich players have equal good/bad chances at getting a UV. If you get a good UV, you can sell it on the Auction House or use it yourself. With the proposed system, poor players no longer have an equal chance at getting the same UV. Rich players will get the UV they want when it shows up. Poor players either have to save up enough to outbid a rich person, or just not try.

I would rather have an equal gamble than an unequal market.

Someone with 20 million crowns loses nothing when using 20k of it. Someone with 30k loses 2/3rds of their entire savings. They both have an equal chance at the same UV. Someone with 20 million crowns loses next to nothing buying a 2 million crown UV. Someone with 30k will not have a chance at getting that UV.

Hourly deal bit has it so that bid wars would not rage on forever, and that missing a UV will not make you feel like you missed a 1 in a lifetime opportunity. Having it max out at High would make it so that if you wanted Very High/MAX on anything, you must roll for it. Most endgame players want that Very High, and thus they can gamble for it. An early player can also get a very high, but might be able to fine-tune their weapons to suit their style through hourly deals. I might want fiend med on my rigadoon, and I don't want to pay 20k+ to maybe get that. Instead, I can pay 30k to ensure I get the UV.

The only way I can see the shop working in the best way is to have multiple kinds of tickets. "Item" tickets, which have a UV work on a SPECIFIC item. Combuster ASI: medium. Dark Briar Barrage CTR: Low. Angelic helm Fire Resistance: High. "Gear" tickets, which work on anything of a specific gear type. ARMOR Shadow resistance: Medium. HELMET Freeze resistance: Low. SWORD Damage bonus VS Constructs: High.
This way, every hour you can check back to see if the UV you want is for the item you seek, and also keeps Punch around to inverse the process. Instead of choosing the UV, you choose the item. At the UV auctions, you choose the UV, not the item.

Lun, 10/13/2014 - 12:36

#10

Vohtarak-Forum

im vohtarak, call me by that name

this seems alright, I can't think of anything against it aside from rich people

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Have Punch Auction UVs