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Stakes

11 replies [Last post]
Tue, 11/18/2014 - 03:54
Gunnerific's picture
Gunnerific

No, not the delicious meat, that at the sound of make cows cry. I'm here to talk about difficulty.

For some, SK seems like a easy game as long as you have the right gear. Which just narrows down the items that are more useful to a whole games. Example, the blitz is a staple in dealing large amounts of damage to slow and/or immobile enemies. This makes the type of mobs control the equipment the user picks. Not the (what i think) is the motive of the game is to create a style the player can use via the chioces of weapons. Which leads the game to be either super easy if you 'follow the trend' or megerly difficult if you 'go hipster'.

Furthermore, the games levels are quite repeative, the randomly generated levels are just random set peices glued together in a 'random' fashion. Players now can easily memoriez every, trap and spawn place of enemies if given enough dedication or time. Thus rendering the game easier.

Lastly, when the game is difficult, it's diffucult due to quantity not quality. The most annoying part of the difficult missions knights encounter is the near infinite amount of monster in a limited area. Rarely we see well crafted monsters that are difficult due to their erratic move sets or unpredictable attacks. Most fiends and higher tier kats.

Solutions? well for the first problem, SK would either need to rehaul the weapons, or create a mob that can be kill more effetively by each weapon. Secondly, we can make the peices of the clockworks smaller so there are more variation in the randomness without making the levels too long. Lastly, more diffucult mobs.

If you have a more innovative mind that mine, please do share your thoughts on how to make the game more difficult or more interesting. But for me the two are intertwined when talking about rouge-like or semi-rouge-like games like SK.

Tue, 11/18/2014 - 04:26
#1
Gunnerific's picture
Gunnerific
Edits

Wrong title.
Moreover, I would like the clarify my definition of unpredictable attacks in my second point.
Upredictable attacks as in well telegraphed moves but not as noticable as the spiny-swirl-swing compared to the normal swing of a gremilin twacker yet not undiffrentiated moves like the slime cube's spiny-swirl-hit from it's normal hit..... Wait, there seems to be a pattern here.

Anyway, I hope that clears any confusion that may occur. That or i just underestimated the intellect of SK's community.

Tue, 11/18/2014 - 06:03
#2
Supnaplamqw's picture
Supnaplamqw
This

"...when the game is difficult, it's diffucult due to quantity not quality."

I'm glad I wasn't alone on this.This creates lag,obscurity, and frustration for me, especially on prestige mode.
I don't go on Compound 42 solely b/c of this.Your suggestion is simple,and the build to the suggestion indeed is magnificent.This basically sums up the main problems I have with this game.

Tue, 11/18/2014 - 06:19
#3
Keepscaite's picture
Keepscaite
Fehzor did it

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/105990
This is probably the kind of thing you're looking for, when it comes to the arcade.

As for the enemies, they used to be a lot harder, somewhat more matching to your description, but then they got toned down because too many players couldn't keep up. I get that you're looking for a challenge, but I think you're a little TOO good at this game lol.

Tue, 11/18/2014 - 11:04
#4
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

The developers DID promise us harder changes to elite mode that would rely on more than just quantity.

Wed, 11/19/2014 - 05:10
#5
Mystrian's picture
Mystrian

"but I think you're a little TOO good at this game

now try thing with no sheild, dread venom striker. and starting (proto) set.

This games only easy because people find ways to cheese it. For example, ppl wait and charge their UV'd blitz for the one-hit spawn kill

Wed, 11/19/2014 - 05:58
#6
Supnaplamqw's picture
Supnaplamqw
If you have to limit yourself

If you have to limit yourself like that,then yes, the game IS easy...
Besides,that's more artificial difficulty than anything.
As for 'cheesing it',the developers need to randomize arcade and buff enemies,not in stats,but in abilities.

Wed, 11/19/2014 - 13:12
#7
Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
But we don't have vampires.....

....Bleh.....

Thu, 11/20/2014 - 00:32
#8
Keepscaite's picture
Keepscaite
@Mystrian

Unlike OP, I suck. I can barely beat any stage on Elite. So I can't afford to limit myself in any way :p

Thu, 11/20/2014 - 07:19
#9
Blandaxt's picture
Blandaxt
LOl..

I thought you were talking about the stakes used to kill vampire’s ahaha.
*ahem*....

Back to the main discussion, I think what we need is basically more quantity. When I say quantity, I do not mean health; I do not mean attack power or anything that normally refers to difficulty.

- When I say quantity I mean type of monsters. Why are there so few beasts when the developers could create a plethora of variety of beast? Maybe some might be more difficult to make like a snake like monster, but when it comes to our reality, we have so many different kinds of beast that it could overflow SK and cause a pandemic. Things like badgers, lions, boars, ligers, and even mix them in between. Why are there so few types of monsters in a fantasy world where bugs, Bacteria, viruses and so much more different types of organism can be incorporated into the world that is cradle?

When I say quantity, I mean levels. Maybe the way the levels are formed can use a remake, but the amount of levels we had are mostly based on rock, dirt, and metal. I can understand saving unique themes for boss stratum's or for unique monsters, but there are just so many different types of matter the surroundings can be created with. Things such as sand dunes, crystal caverns, gold mines, tropic forest (when I say forest, I mean things much like branches hanging over head, vines entangling vegetation and moss ground covering), and even create fantasy ones like the Aprocrean level design, but ad this in a more frequent interaction for players.

When I say quantity, I mean Non-playable characters. These characters are not just background dribble, they are essential part of the game's meats and veggies and the players are what makes the sauce wish is carried in the bowl that is cradle. So these characters should get more of oomph in their presence in cradle. Things such as prestige missions do not cover the amount of presence they deserve. They should be incorporated into the clockworks as if they themselves are participating in our ordeals. Things like showing their dead carcasses in the dungeons are not enough, things like bringing them on missions like the expansion missions are not enough, and we need to see them as a general force that is our comrades in aiding us in this quest towards the core. So when it comes to quantity, I mean the scenario rooms that we encounter, and we should also encounter infantry troops that we can encounter that have variable equipment. Some will be willing to help us, others will ask us that we pay them a sum of five energy for them to help us similar to the amount needed to activate the robotic knights. Levels like deconstruction should have knights trapped in those lock doors that also have gremlin prison guards that are there to make sure they don't escape. More recon troops should be encountered in the break rooms, to not only provide assistance but say things like random lore, and can also be just to see them off going into the dungeons. The same way we see the troops moving around in haven, let us see them more frequently in the arcade but with more of an effect such as hands for hire, or encountering a team in trouble and you save them and they reward you with a slot item and they leave. But I do mean actual trouble like if you dilly dally in the dungeon, by the time you encounter them you will only see carcasses. And while they are aiding us, the same way the robotic knights dies after its health is depleted, will they die. But effects such as pet buffs that affect allies should also affect them. The difference with them and robotic knights is that they have something to say sometimes and they might be carrying a pill like the gremlin Thwackers and decide to heal themselves. These actions would give the game more life.

I am not going to count the monsters/levels that came out sense I have been in the game nor am I going to criticize that the devs pace is not up to pare to our yearns. But I am going to say that SK has so much more room to grow and can expand into magnificent multiverse of Planes that lead to the core. It’s one careful step at a time that will allow you to reach our destination. The same saying

I will say that the spark that I feel should be there which is the players’ voices is missing from the game. I do not mean things like the suggestion panel, or interactive things outside the game like that last pumpkin contest we just had. What I mean is inside haven, inside cradle there is not an actual focus that allows players stand out whether as an individual or as a group. Players collect weapons and armor and gain promotion for the sake of doing just that. After the story is done and the bosses are beaten, players that have gone through those ordeals should have a way to get more attention in a way from the community. Things like tournaments, things like pop up emergency events that comes unexpectedly but is not just a reward item for logging in, but an ordeal that last for that day and vanishes as if to never to return.

:( An example, the head of the SK warriors has suddenly caught a foreign illness and is in need of dire help. For that ordeal, have 2 possible outcomes. One: if players prevail in finding the foreign invaders that spread the illness and defeats them and manage to bring a piece of those invaders to the science lab where they will conduct research and create a vaccine to cure the head. The players meet the invaders by chance and will have a limit amount of time for them to defeat them. If the time ends, the invaders vanish, if the players die, the invaders vanish which the players will fail. But they can try again and again for the duration of that day to beat the quest and the quest of course will be located in the arcade. Second outcome: the knights fail to defeat the invaders, and they vanish maybe to comeback, or to never again. The head will then be put in cold freeze and future searches will conducted as prestige missions that happen once a month or once a week until they encounter them again. The encounter will not be a scheduled event, but more of like the chances of a weapon or rare item like she gremlin shield dropping. Which means this event can also happen with other events if by chance but will only last that day until solved. Once solved, they will not repeat it but a re-skin of the monsters can be used. This would feel like SK is more alive and feel like the players who solved the mystery would be given an exclusive badge or something allowing them to stand out.)

Things like armor re-skins, aura's wings and other cosmetic promotions are all very good design and can be kept for the pay to play players who are supporting the game. But these things in my opinion do not bring life to SK (life as in player activity); they bring in the money as I said before that supports the non-paying players who trade with those paying players.

Sun, 11/23/2014 - 19:52
#10
Gunnerific's picture
Gunnerific
huh.

My points exactly, just in diffrent wordings.
But on your last point about the random one-day event, why not:

Make it one-chanced. If you win it, you get the prize; If you lose and quit half-way, you get nothing and you can't redo it.
Why? To tally the outcome, so that if a majority of the community loses that event you get said output set into the lore. Therefore making the lore more interactive in a way.
But not to displease anyone, either output should have it pro and cons and some could reject the mission before hand so they're input won't be tallied.

Wed, 11/26/2014 - 06:29
#11
Blandaxt's picture
Blandaxt
Hmm...

hmm, I never thought about the rejection options because when the devs give us a present for logging in, they do not give us an option to reject the present lol. But sense this is a mission, there should be more options. How about an npc that is placed in the gate entrance to tier 1, 2 , and 3 and ask the players if they would like to participate in the mission. (although, so far in sk, there has never been a mission that players could choose not to do lol)

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