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Challenge mode starting at Core depth: Low dev effort improvement!

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Mar, 11/18/2014 - 16:42
Imagen de Flawedknight
Flawedknight

Original Subject: Open the Core.... it really doesn't have to do anything special!!!

Hello there,

As a player that has hundreds of hours in this game and who regularly donates money to keep it going I have a suggestion for keeping the end players happy that would require almost no new development. What I'd like to see is either you activate the core elevator or put another one on the side (or perhaps if you're feeling lazy just give the existing elevator that already is there and works a down option. It really doesn't matter where it's placed but I feel as though it could be good to have to traverse the third tier to get there.

How would the level progression work? I'm thinking that the gate map would just have five or six different levels for each depth, all masked with ???. Rather than be completely random every trip down the floors could be generated per gate. This will add an exploration aspect to the game. An example of how this could play out with players could be like "Whoa there is an arena in the 4th position at depth 30 something!" or "Look out for slot 1 in depth 35 it's shock fiends!!!", etc etc. A good story tie in could be like we've opened the core but have gotten lost! The alpha team couldn't make it back etc etc. In a later patch when you want to add actual core content you could actually say something like mapping knights have mapped the core! now there is new content at depth 40 or something!

What would the levels look like? Personally I think if you just had a grab bag of *ALL* existing levels randomized with a higher percentage chance of getting common levels and a lower chance of getting special levels. When I said all existing levels I mean all. It would be awesome to get Snarbolax at depth 40 or something (an example of a special level) even though the pay out for the trouble would be terrible. It is required that you add a few more entries to your scaling tables. Things don't even have to scale well, as long as the loot and the monster buffs are about on the same page. This would give the clockworks a real clock worky... workish? feel.

When you say "ALL" do you mean that? like Grinchlin assault for example? Sure! But I understand that you would *NOT* get special event materials in this mode. I'll take those as a later patch if work is needed to change out the prize boxes based on context of how the level is got too. The main idea is that you get random content at deeper and deeper levels... It would be pretty cool to even hit Apocrea levels... I mean you'd just want to run through then because you don't get the seals, but that would be a pleasant surprise, and you can goof off there if you wanted to. If you want to make people get more gear you could put like fire levels at depth 40 for awhile (or poison or enter damage combination here). This would give people a reason to get more obscure armors

What would the game experience be like? Well it would be random, entertaining, and weird! A good place to test your mettle. Bragging rights for those who make it down so far. Since boss levels don't have arsenal stations you'll have to be careful too! It would be pretty brutal to go from URJP level to say a UFSC level as you wouldn't be able to requip twice! That is part of the exploration and fun there!

The main thing this is meant to address is the grinding in the game.... Personally I don't want to play FSC for the 200th time. As a multi year player though there isn't anything left to do other than merchant -- and if I wanted to do that I'd open a business (in the real world). Also I'm tired of hearing people whine about the purchase content. If you play this game enough to post on the forums you should either be able to play enough to buy the stuff from the players / AH, or you should probably put down some cash to keep the game you like going. The problem with that statement is that I do understand the whining as there is no good way for people to grind to make the in game currency though!

EDIT: thanks to CCat for multiple points of clarification, Clarified Subject based on feedback.

Mar, 11/18/2014 - 17:04
#1
Imagen de Fehzor
Fehzor

Some people have theorized (without looking into the game files) that the core is currently in development. This is because of how one of Herex mission rooms features bits of the swarm on it, and the swarm is closely tied to the core via the shadow lairs. Logically, we would expect Herex to become corrupted (as he is betraying the gremlins), and open the core in an upcoming patch.

All just speculation of course. Not even my speculation- someone made a thread about this a few months ago.

Mar, 11/18/2014 - 17:05
#2
Imagen de Cheshireccat
Cheshireccat
+1

As stated, the monster health/damage scaling and prize box scaling are the key elements to this plan. You want the monsters to scale slowly but infinitely, so the skill of the party is paramout.
The TOTALLY RANDOM nature of these gates will be the draw and as long as the payout scales people will keep playing.

And once you go deep enough people won't be ABLE to use Chaos/Swiftstrike without being a one-hit KO. Guess you'll have to invest in some new loadouts Muah-hah-ah-ah... >:]
--Cheshireccat

Mar, 11/18/2014 - 17:25
#3
Imagen de Flawedknight
Flawedknight
Thanks for the comments and support

@Fehzor: That would be nice, really nice. But a few months after it came out I would want some random stuff to grind and get loot again. The main problem I'm trying to solve is the that I find myself without interesting levels to play between every play event. The basis of the clockwork style arcade seems like it could be expanded upon to solve this problem quite simply. If the Danger Missions payed out around the same as FSC it would be one thing (though you'd have to be able to replay them). I could see perhaps a opportunity to expand the prestige section to include a random level generator that didn't have to tie into the core. Perhaps you could have themed randomness like infinite poison levels or something in this fashion, Or perhaps you get the damage type based on the gate map position or something.

@CCat: Exactly, and the great thing about this is that you would get in theory difficult levels with all damage types! meaning more armors to grind for, more loot to get new armors, more skill involved with getting said loot and armors.... it makes the game scalable with less dev effort (in theory)

Mar, 11/18/2014 - 17:18
#4
Imagen de Holy-Nightmare
Holy-Nightmare
+1

It would give players something new and challenging to do, I want it to be so hard that all these "Vanguards" who got carried all the way through the game will have to seriously pay attention.

Mar, 11/18/2014 - 17:28
#5
Imagen de Knight-Solaire
Knight-Solaire
Error 404: subject not found.

Ever since the Shadow Lairs were released, I've held fast to the theory that the Core has been opened already. The recon modules chronicling the Alpha Squad ultimately end with them facing the Swarm and seeking refuge within the Core; the end of the Unknown Passage puts our knights in a remarkably similar situation, with a similar escape.

Sanctuary is more than some random floor we land on, as the Echo Stones (particularly SL IMF's) show that whatever speaks to you there A) addresses you specifically (as opposed to the recon modules left for anyone to find), B) is aware of its captivity and of the threat outside, and C) wanted to save you from it as well.

There are of course no neon signs saying "zomg ur entering teh coar!!!one", but a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

(Also if you count the number of floors travelled, SL FSC implies Sanctuary is on the theoretical 30th depth--one below "Entrance to the Core")

- - - - -

Anyways, my biggest gripe with every single "open the Core" suggestion is that everyone expects more Clockworks-style floors within it. Let's look at the geometry for a second: the Core is the center of the sphere that is the Clockworks. Based on observation, the Core itself does not appear to be much bigger than any one of the spheres holding each individual floor (look over the edge of a Wolver Den some time, the spheres are huge). So the question becomes, how would you go deeper into a sphere than its center?

Mar, 11/18/2014 - 17:32
#6
Imagen de Midnight-Dj
Midnight-Dj
:)

When do I finally get to fight lord Inceptron ? Can I? OOO make it happen!!! This is the boss battle finale Spiral Knights deserve!!!

Mar, 11/18/2014 - 17:39
#7
Imagen de Holy-Nightmare
Holy-Nightmare
@ Rare

I always thought of the Sanctuary as a sentient island not bound by the clockworks acting as a safety net for any beings it deems worthy of being rescued from the core.

I always noted that the drop from the entrance of the core to the core itself was rather deep.

As for what the core is, I imagined it as a massive area like the Grasping Plateau but rather than graveyard themed this would be swarm themed (considering that both places disable your map).

Mar, 11/18/2014 - 17:48
#8
Imagen de Flawedknight
Flawedknight
Thanks for the comments and support

@Holy-Nightmare: Seriously, players have it much easier now as it is! (well except for that whole fire crystal / upgrade change >.<)

@Rare: Whether or not we get to fight the unknown thingy trapped by the planet is one thing. I would certainly be all for it at some point, but I fear the game may die before then. It seems like in addition to the promos and play events you get regularly (and the actual play content we seem to get annually?) it would be good to have someplace to grind for loot that is entertaining and different. The mythos to the game is based around a mechanical planet where the internals are changing constantly. It seems reasonable that you could hop off at different points without making a lot of progression toward the actual center. Given that there is also no concept of how large the existing clockworks are compared to the core internals there is no saying how far we can take it.

@Midnight-Dj: I've been hoping for a lot of stuff in that regard... Like a Vog for example... his teeth make great swords and his babies fine coats! When will he have enough of this and strike back! And the Gremlin King (Thesnrskazar er whatever). When is he going to get off his bottom and do something -- Lazy bum!

Mar, 11/18/2014 - 18:02
#9
Imagen de Cheshireccat
Cheshireccat
@Rare

The core is ROUND, Rare. Round things don't have edges so you can keep walking in one direction forever. In this case, the direction is "down".
Geez, it's like you don't even understand shapes.
--Cheshireccat

Mar, 11/18/2014 - 18:04
#10
Imagen de Midnight-Dj
Midnight-Dj
Some side notes

@Flawed

Vog is removed after SK beta, the lore goes that they are already extinct, so I doubt they will comeback, and it seems that it is a meme amonst SK role players that Vog is somehow divine and have certain deific power.

I would give OOO a huge cookie if at the end when we are about to fight Tikinzar, we only find out that he has been dead for over 4000 years, now nothing but a pile of bones sitting on a throne that was meant to preserve his psychic essence (kinda like the emperor of men from Warhammer 40K), and this essence have influence over the swarm and clockwork as a whole.

Mar, 11/18/2014 - 18:27
#11
Imagen de Flawedknight
Flawedknight
Monsters!

@Midnight-Dj: Sure I was just joking around... As far as story actually goes it would be interesting if we found out that everything was machine generated as a defense mechanism to keep the unnamed thing in the middle -- well trapped. It could be used to explain the respawn of just about everything as the world like mechanism is meant to re-establish it's defenses or something. If you tie it in to the old minerals make monsters and gates paradigm that is long past who knows what random stuff will get produced. The real reason VD can never rest? Explaining the trapped dreaming being? gremlins are the good keepers of the evil being inside?

idk story hasn't been the games strong point.... it's always more "here take this cryptic piece of info or gossip". Then again as an old time player there has been a fair number of story elements that I missed as they were added after XD

EDIT: Looked it up on the wiki

In the lore of Spiral Knights, Vog is some kind of fire deity. Little is known about it. Designer Nick Popovich has confirmed that Vog is named after the vog (volcanic fog) phenomenon.
Early preview videos of Spiral Knights featured wolvers called Vog cubs. They have never existed publicly in-game, but Vog Cub Coat and Vog Cub Cap still bear their name. Nick Popovich has stated that Vog itself is not a wolver

Maybe we should get a Vog boss level with cubs and all at some point :)

Mar, 11/18/2014 - 19:10
#12
Imagen de Holy-Nightmare
Holy-Nightmare
@ Midnight-Dj

A bit like the intro to this game battle?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcvU2y7WvGY

Mié, 11/19/2014 - 11:53
#13
Imagen de Flawedknight
Flawedknight
Updates....

Updated some of the description and subject due to feedback based on Cheshireccats comments. If any others have a way to refine this idea to make it better please feel free to let me know :)

@Holy-Nightmare: That looks like it could be fun! Even though it seems to be taking style points from some anime / manga.... Though I'm not claiming to be an expert on the afro samurai origins.... Enter the Dragon maybe?

Cheers
Flawed

Mié, 11/19/2014 - 13:19
#14
Imagen de Holy-Nightmare
Holy-Nightmare
@ Flawedknight

The origin of Afro Samurai https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI7nRhP4bPg

The show starts with the antagonist (AKA Justice) killing the protagonist's father

The whole series goes to lengths to enforce the fact that the desire for revenge and for power creates a demon not only of yourself but of others as well......

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