Forums › English Language Forums › General › Suggestions

Buscar

Press Fire to Activate Emergency Revive

21 respuestas [Último envío]
Mar, 12/09/2014 - 12:04
Imagen de Whitechocolatechip
Whitechocolatechip

This is short, simple, and to the point.

This game is extremely connection demanding. Major T3 means that a half-second's jitter could maim or kill you, depending on your situation. Previously I had awesome ping and connectivity and had to watch others with net hangups and drops get their butts whooped helplessly. Then I moved and got less-than-ideal service from an ISP.

If your net drops for 10 seconds or more, you can be guaranteed when you sign back into your placeholder in the dungeon you are dead through both your initial life AND your emergency revive, meaning you're paying up to spark right then and there, completely against your will.

Additionally, the old revive system had manual activation. Sparks have manual activation. Why? Because revives are a BIG deal, and being able to revive whenever you dang well please is both tactical and really a basic area of freedom for serious raiders.

Emergency revive activation NEEDS consent, in my aggravated, humble opinion. It's as tactical and useful as it is an insurance policy for when crap hits the fan. So, what if we just pushed our attack button to confirm activation of our emergency revives? Being forced to revive when they sky is falling or blowing through your rev without your consent is a pain in the butt, and is extremely non-user friendly.

It's just a small step away from the current system- could be implemented within a day's time even. C'mon. Considerate it, guys...

Mar, 12/09/2014 - 12:10
#1
Imagen de Holy-Nightmare
Holy-Nightmare
The current system prevents

The current system prevents easy Alt carrying through bosses.

The payout for carrying alts is pretty high, especially in places like Vana (120,000 cr when you sell 4 ancient plate shields plus the CR you get from running 10 Vana runs)

_________________________________

On the flip side I do hate when I get pinned under falling Shadowfire in the Vana Boss battle and a revive that I can choose to hold off would allow me to wait till I can get my teammates to put out the fire I'm trapped under before reviving.

Mar, 12/09/2014 - 12:15
#2
Imagen de Whitechocolatechip
Whitechocolatechip
My rebuttal to that is

My rebuttal to that is sparks. Sparks already do that, at a very slight cost. CE is about 8K atm, so 16K for a 10 pack, they're 1600 crowns each. For farming bosses and payout, you could really meet end's meet anyways.

Vana pays, what, about 7k? 8? Across the first 4 floors. Profit margin, right there. And that's discluding the fact you could sit out floors 1 and 2 almost entirely. The skeleton's already in the closet, mathematically speaking.

Mar, 12/09/2014 - 12:26
#3
Imagen de Avihr
Avihr
Void

Umm, you do know that you don't get any drops from monsters that are killed while you're dead right? How will this make alt carrying more profittable if you still have to keep all your characters alive if you want to get the extra crowns?

@OP

Yknow, this is one of the things that one thinks "WHY has this not been suggested earlier?" definitely something that should be changed, we should have the choice to revive whenever we want to.

Mar, 12/09/2014 - 12:46
#4
Imagen de Vohtarak-Forum
Vohtarak-Forum
I'm vohtarak, call me by that name

there was only one argument against this, and aviri just proved it wouldnt be bad
I like this idea

Mar, 12/09/2014 - 12:55
#5
Imagen de Holy-Nightmare
Holy-Nightmare
All you have to do is carry

All you have to do is carry them to the second floor of Vana, clear out a room and tuck your alts in some deep corner that no slag will ever wander into, then once you complete the floor have them pick up all the CR.

Mar, 12/09/2014 - 13:06
#6
Imagen de Avihr
Avihr
Void

You still want to go with it huh nightmare?

this change actually makes it even harder for you to alt farm the second floor of FSC, because if somehow your alts get killed you will have to manually revive each one of them and risk your main getting killed while also wasting some of your time, sure you might get to save a spark before some of them gets killed again after the insta revive, but chances are that you will be there to save them before that happens or just shield bump/shield bash it with some of your alts anyway, and if they are really in a spot that no slag can wander into and they never get killed, then how does this affect alt farming? I just want to know.

Mar, 12/09/2014 - 13:47
#7
Imagen de Fangel
Fangel
Not a bad idea

As of right now, if you get disconnected from the server, your emergency revive will not go off automatically. When you reconnect it will start. I think that having a 10-20 second countdown timer before reviving wouldn't be a bad idea. If you let players stay down forever, then they will stay down for entire bossfights until you kill the boss, and then they'll revive. Forcing a revive after a certain time would be a good idea. Perhaps have the revive be forcefully activated once drops stop happening? That will ensure you don't lose anything while also giving you time to be down, or be officially D/C'd from the server and stay down.

Mar, 12/09/2014 - 14:06
#8
Imagen de Blandaxt
Blandaxt
love love and more love

@WhitechocolatechipL: agreed 100% that this is a great simple idea. it's very similar to the old system and i think if someone is gonna alt grind boss stratum's, they are gonna find a way whether we have systems implemented to stop them. So a big YES to your idea.

Mar, 12/09/2014 - 14:21
#9
Imagen de Klipik-Forum
Klipik-Forum

This mechanic was put in deliberately to stop alt farming, and reversing it isn't gonna happen. What should happen instead is refining the disconnection detection system, changing the you-don't-get-loot-while-dead-or-reviving to start, say, a minute after death, to compensate for d/c's, and having the system not automatically revive you if you are in an instantly damaging situation (under shadowfire, right next to a Grimalkin, on an activated spike trap, etc). It would take more work but it's a much better solution that doesn't break the game in other ways.

Mar, 12/09/2014 - 16:05
#10
Imagen de Holy-Nightmare
Holy-Nightmare
@ Klipik

Why not just have the temporary ability to walk over traps and invincibility after reviving, this would certainly help trapped players.

In addition to alt farming you have to consider what this would mean to spark sales and other things. Back in the Mist days I remember players that would die at the boss only to revive after the token drops. Instant revival forces players to fight rather than relying on teammates to do everything.

Mar, 12/09/2014 - 21:37
#11
Imagen de Fehzor
Fehzor

I think Fangel has the right idea with this. Just give the player a minute or so to voluntarily use their emergency revive before forcing it to proc, allowing them to tactically evaluate when there are 3 trojans cornering them..

Mié, 12/10/2014 - 20:47
#12
Setakat
@Fangel

BTW, the games picking up on when you have been DC'ed is completely unreliable. Every time when I've dc'ed, and once Ive gotten back in, my party has reported I stopped moving, got killed, emergency revived, stayed still, and then died again. After which, the dc'ed symbol shows up. All of my guildmates and friends also have the exact same thing happen.
So my choice is either spark (currently saving up for a SL) or abort the run.
So for starters, I support manual triggering of the emergency revive, since the DC timeout is just far too big. Or if the game server is waiting for our client to respond, and we die before the DC confirmed timeout expires, we should have our emergency revive restored when it gets used until we reconnect. Otherwise we are just being punished by the server waiting far too long to confirm a timeout.

Jue, 12/11/2014 - 10:34
#13
Imagen de Fangel
Fangel
Hence the extended delay

Having 30 seconds to a minute to officially be D/C'd will ensure that your emergency revive is used if you're just waiting, but will not kick in if you are officially D/C'd. As of right now, you get D/C'd, the game continues, you get downed then the server gets you right back up, then the server realizes you've been D/C'd and creates a ghost knight. Under the proposed system, you get D/C'd, the game continues, you get downed and the server starts a countdown to get you back up. During that timer, you get D/C'd, and the server resets the timer and stops counting down. When you reconnect, you'll still be downed by your ER will be in tact. No system is going to be perfect, but this one will solve some issues with the current setup.

Jue, 12/11/2014 - 12:36
#14
Imagen de Vohtarak-Forum
Vohtarak-Forum
I'm vohtarak, call me by that name

I think a current problem is that you can take damage while DCed
it would be a lot more fair if you were invincible when DCed too

Jue, 12/11/2014 - 18:52
#15
Imagen de Fangel
Fangel
Yes and no

Yes, you shouldn't take damage if your internet cuts out. However, people will use this to their advantage, and simply DC for 5 minutes or so for a boss fight and force others to pick up the slack.

Perhaps give an incentive to protect D/C'd players? Such as, upon reestablishing connection, all players nearby an alive previously D/C'd player will get a 5 -10 second speed, defense, and attack boost? This requires having the D/C'd person nearby and having them be alive. Perhaps the power and length of these power-ups would depend on how long the person was D/C'd? Gone for 1 minute, get 1 second of powerup. Gone for 30 seconds, no power up. Gone for 5 minutes, 5 seconds of power-up. Perhaps proximity to the player could also add a multiplier? Such as, 0 tiles away you get x2 the power. 1-3 tiles, you get x1.5. 4-8 tiles you get x1. 9-20 tiles you get x0.5 power and time. Maybe it's too much at this point, but hey, 20 seconds max of extra power isn't something to overlook.
Would people abuse this? Yes, but it would be harder to abuse than D/C invincibility, and it requires collaboration between teammates outside of spiral knights. It would also require players to keep their fellow D/C'd players alive, and stick near them. Perhaps you could even pick up and move teammates like statues when they D/C. That would be fun.

Jue, 12/11/2014 - 23:43
#16
Imagen de Klipik-Forum
Klipik-Forum
Not sure if I should say this but

You can also force D/C yourself by ending your java process with ctrl+alt+delete, which would be abused to all hell if it made you invincible.

Vie, 12/12/2014 - 00:37
#17
Imagen de Whitechocolatechip
Whitechocolatechip
This discussion seems to

This discussion seems to bring about more testamony to how hard people will try to cheat than anything else. Honestly, if people are already trying to break the game this hard, why try and appease every possible solution?

Either we have something simple yet remotely exploitable for try-hards, or we have something outrageously complex and relatively prone to bugging on its own due to said complexity. While I am amazed at the depth of some of these propositions, my thoughts as a coder (one that's slaved over a few thousand lines of code in a single document) is that if you chucked me this idea I would say "Hell no. Just leave it how it is"- buff periods, advanced detections, rewards... a bit of compromise may end up being the solution, here.

I'd cast my votes for 30 sec to 1 min force-ER period. It limits exploits to near-nill and gives people ample time to recover from most forms of DC. Maybe even 90 seconds to 2 minutes, depending on what one judges to be "average DC time"... and it retains a solid level of simplicity still.

Vie, 12/12/2014 - 07:04
#18
Imagen de Inalaman
Inalaman
Not worth even trying to

Not worth even trying to change it because it is very visible that whatever way it is changed people will always have a reason to hate it and disagree with it.

Sáb, 12/13/2014 - 17:11
#19
Imagen de Supnaplamqw
Supnaplamqw
+1

...

Dom, 12/14/2014 - 01:42
#20
Imagen de Xxpapaya
Xxpapaya
The papaya thinks...

I agree with Fangel's idea. Frankly, the "you become invincible after being revived so that you can get out of a trapped zone" doesn't seem like a very reliable solution (although I do see where you are coming from, @Holy-Nightmare). Yes, the invincibility certainly will help you get over whatever demonic trap(s) you are stuck in, but what happens when you have ten-thousand furballs cornering you?

I'm leaning more to the "You have a few seconds to choose to use your revive or it will proc itself" idea.

Dom, 12/14/2014 - 08:06
#21
Imagen de Fireherat
Fireherat
wait wait wait

Since when you Dc it evers uses your ER? i nevered happend to me

Sitio elaborado con Drupal, un sistema de gestión de contenido de código abierto