Spiral Knights - New PVP mode; mob battles.

New PVP mode; mob battles.

13 replies [Last post]

Thu, 01/15/2015 - 20:00

Chaos-Mist

I was chatting away with guildees when I came up with (what I believe to be) a neat idea. I understand this would be relatively difficult for the programmers to design but if they managed I think it'd make a rather enjoyable game mode for PVP players, as LD and BN are getting rather boring (I enjoy BN and all but no-one is ever on so it's pointless).
So here's the idea; One set of players spawn as Knights. Their job is to reach the lift at the end of the mission but in their way are the Mobs. These are the other players. The mobs have set respawn points (they choose which one to spawn at after they die) and their job is to stop the knights from reaching the end of the depth by killing them. Knights do not respawn. At the end of the first round both sides will switch sides (knights becoming mobs and mobs becoming knights) and then the same happens. The winner is the team that manages to get the most knights to the lift.

Tiebreaker:-
It's pretty easy to draw by the above rules. So in order to tiebreak in the following scenarios;
-Both teams get the same amount of knights through (other than 0): the team that managed to get their knights through the fastest wins.
-Neither team makes it to the lift (the time taken to die is the tiebreaker).

Mob Selection:-
This can either go one of two ways. The mobs available should be based on the map. E.g. if Jelly Palace were to be a map there should be no players strolling around as a Trojan.
1. Mob selection is almost completely random.
2. Players select their mobs. Stronger mobs maybe cost time and/or have worse spawn points available.

Possible trinkets:-
There could also be the introduction of trinkets made for the specific use of this PVP mode. These could include trinkets with effects such as increasing 4% chance on spawning as an advanced mob or Resisting Normal damage.

Knight's equipment:-
Just to make it clear, knights would use their own equipment. There would be an armoury box at the start of the depth with the usual one-way force-field or party button before the battle begins. The force-field/party button will not allow players past until the game beings. Alike LD, players will have time to reach the starting gate before time actually begins. Knights would also be able to use sprites and attain vials and such.

Aren't Knights OP compared to mobs?:-
Not at all. The biggest weakness of a mob is it's predictability and indecision. Mobs have strange habits such as standing looking at a player, moon-walking around or walking into blatant traps (damn right Trojans, I'm looking at you). Not only that but the Mobs are respawnable and it maybe possible (in a 12 player mode) to have 4 knights, 8 mobs (with there being 3 rounds to let everyone play as Knight and Mob).

Why would you need this? Isn't BN and LD enough?:-
No. Everyone knows that BN is dead and once you've completed SK you have 4 options. LD until you're bored, quit Sk, bash vana for no reason other than to look prettier or sit talking in Haven while looking at the new items you want but you already have. A new PVP mode can only liven things up.
Most SK players are PVP players and I'm sure they want something new.

Fri, 01/16/2015 - 17:18

Supnaplamqw

+1 I would actually play this

Also on the mob part,I believe mobs should be a resembling mixture in game mobs and new ones.
I believe there shouldn't be raw upgraded versions of mobs,each should have their respawn 'quirks'.
Also,the I'd suggest for at least some of the mob types to deviate from the 4 most basic RPG classes, perhaps like one that specializes in ranged and heavy flinch-power combat,but has low attack speed.

Sat, 01/17/2015 - 10:50

Chaos-Mist

@Supnaplamqw

I like the representation of RPG classes. Like Devilites for Archer, Gremlin Mender for Cleric, A new mob for Mage (or maybe Kats), Dust Zombies for Warrior and Wolver for Ravager?
What I meant by advanced mobs is Trojans, Mecha Knights, Alpha Wolvers and such. Maybe a player could level up into these from their classes during the match. Then the trinkets would be things like "EXP boost +5%"

Sat, 01/17/2015 - 11:15

Supnaplamqw

I'm not too fond of the leveling idea,could create unbalance

Anyways,I wouldn't mind rpg classes,but I feel it would be much more interesting if most of them didn't reflect that.It could create some pretty interesting strategies, and some time getting use to.I also feel it could potentially create a kind of dependence on team defence as some of those classes do stand out on their own,not to mention most people probably have more experience in those classes.
Also,going along the advanced mob idea, perhaps their mobility is restricted as well,not just in speed sense,but location as well.
BTW, are we able to change what mob we are?

Sat, 01/17/2015 - 12:26

Chaos-Mist

@Supnaplamqw

"BTW, are we able to change what mob we are?" - I said in the original post that I'm not sure whether players should choose their mob or it be assigned to them randomly.
"I'm not too fond of the leveling idea,could create unbalance" - I don't mean permanently leveling up, after your round your level would reset. The level up would be attained as you deal damage to knights during your round and increase the variation of mobs you could be upon respawn. After your round your level would reset.
"Also,going along the advanced mob idea, perhaps their mobility is restricted as well,not just in speed sense,but location as well." - in the post I said 'Stronger mobs maybe cost time and/or have worse spawn points available.' I don't believe advanced mobs should have movement or attack speed decreases because then they wouldn't be very advanced.

Sat, 01/17/2015 - 13:10

Fangel

Interesting.

Has a lot of openings for cool things. If the mob team can make some sort of "barricade" to slow the knights down or force a detour it would be great. But it might also be good for knights to have to kill the mobs for some points as well, as not to just encourage speedrunning.

Also, would there be normal mobs all about? Like, would a room of scuttlebots still appear? If so then the AI could drop lower points and the player mobs would drop higher points.

This sounds fun if done correctly. No need to get too far into the deep end with "monster classes".

Sat, 01/17/2015 - 13:18

Supnaplamqw

Thanks for your responses

I knew that leveling wouldn't be permanent,but seeing your latest post,I'm now concerned about the experience,specifically how to obtain it.What about mobs who aren't meant for dealing damage,or mob strategies that don't emphasize it?Also, locked mobs that have different playstyle?Are you going to leave the unlocks specifically to the advanced ones?

As for the first point you adressed,I'm sorry I missed that one,I assumed you decided by now.

As for the last one, that's no what I meant by location.I meant a mob being restricted only to a portion of the map,unless that's what you meant by "spawn points,"no?

Sat, 01/17/2015 - 13:38

Chaos-Mist

@Fangel

Regarding barricades, that's currently a highly unlikely thing to happen to the game. However, there's a thread regarding changing the levels on SK someone did and they added in utility weapons that plant ghost blocks and such, purely to help with problem solving. http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/105990#comment-975899
It's actually a really good post. I think the poster was Fehzor...although it might be spelt slightly different.
If those utility weapons are brought into the game then it wouldn't be too hard for OOO to input barricade building or such into this game mode. I think the varying routes would also help this game mode.

"Also, would there be normal mobs all about?" - I was originally against it because then the one side would receive enemy support, however the more I think about it's a good idea. That way Knights won't know whether to respond to an enemy as they would a player or not, meaning predicting enemies becomes harder. It would also offer players the chance to tactically hide in enemy groups that may be slow and stupid so the Knights try to rush past, then they're...I dunno...back-stabbed...the hiding idea was not a successful one...

"But it might also be good for knights to have to kill the mobs for some points as well, as not to just encourage speedrunning." - I was originally thinking of the maps being split into sectors and when the Knights break past one sector the enemies respawn in another. Thinking about it that's a horrendous idea. I also don't want there to be points for kills, because if mob team is respawning then players would not care about their time, as-long as they can get kills. I have since thought back to something else I said;

"E.g. if Jelly Palace were to be a map there should be no players strolling around as a Trojan." - If the maps were based in actual depth maps then there would be parts where knights cannot leave a room until all mobs are defeated. All player-mobs outside the room could be teleported inside the normal mob spawn points randomly upon the gate appearing, but aslong as the gate is there they can only spawn when enemies would usually spawn, so as to stop the gate being endlessly impossible to open (or maybe as soon as each mob has been killed a certain amount of times it opens). Maybe also some player-mobs can either be assigned to, or pick up a key upon spawning (alike taking the bomb in CoD Search and Destroy) and if the holding mob is killed the key spawns. That way Knights would have to kill for keys to open locked gates even when it's not usually in place (and since mobs respawn they'd have to kill tactically to avoid slaughtering the same people while the key person is running around avoiding death).

Sat, 01/17/2015 - 13:44

Chaos-Mist

@Supnaplamqw

Have you ever played Resistance 2? In the co-op mode, healers level up fastest by healing allies, spec ops level up fastest by supporting allies and soldiers for tanking and dealing damage. I support an EXP system like that that supports rewarding players depending on their skill in their play style, not just damage dealing.

"Are you going to leave the unlocks specifically to the advanced ones?" - Yes. You have to level up to unlock mobs.

"I meant a mob being restricted only to a portion of the map" - I misunderstood you there the first time, however, I don't think this is too great an idea as no-one wants to play within a restricted game, especially if they've had to work hard to earn being there. Tactically speaking, good mob-players will learn to prefer guarding areas rather than all out attacking if they have bad spawn points. Another idea to force people to be careful rather than just rushing the enemy would be that if you die as an advanced mob you go back to be being a basic mob with reset EXP.

Sat, 01/17/2015 - 14:00

Supnaplamqw

I haven't played Resistance 2

The problem I have comes with what is considered good play. With those classes I could see,but what about a little more unorthodox methods with specific classes.I'm okay w/ a leveling system,but I fear it might become quite restrictive.If there were a supposed leveling system,I believe there should be no more than 2 upgrades, and the upgrades have only somewhat minor changes to the playstyle.

Now the hardest part of what I'm going to say,the trick w/ advanced mobs shouldn't be to flat out be superior in every way to the supposed minor counterparts,but rather have the potential to be better at the supposed 'job',and w/ having some statistical up and downsides and more cost,that's where the leveling system comes in (Think of the arcade tier system b/f missions), as well as create some extra strategy of what mob to pick.

Sat, 01/17/2015 - 14:52

#10

Chaos-Mist

@Supnaplamqw

Another game for reference of short leveling up systems only in game is 'Happy Wars'. I'm not sure but I think that was Xbox Live only...it may also be a PC game. The player selected their character's abilities before the game, then unlocked the more advanced ones as they played by killing others. The levels up only count to the 1 game they level up in. One example is maybe an ability that will let you fire lightning, then you unlock the ability to buff people's weapons, then the ability to send a tornado at the enemy. You use each skill by pressing a different button.

"I believe there should be no more than 2 upgrades,"... - What I mean by an upgrade is like, at the start you could be a Devilite, but you got loads of kills so now you can be a Trojan if you like. As in, you unlock advanced mobs by leveling up in the mission.

"advanced mobs shouldn't be to flat out be superior in every way to the supposed minor counterparts" - I don't think Trojans are. I understand I think I've been misunderstood by what I meant by advanced but this post should make it all clear.

"(Think of the arcade tier system b/f missions)" - I started playing the game a few months after it came out. By that point there were missions (or atleast I think there were. :\).

Sat, 01/17/2015 - 16:24

#11

Supnaplamqw

Alright

Thank you for clearing this up a bit.I wish this could be in game,but unfortunately its unlikely.
Any who,missions still restrict newbies from waltzing in the game like b/f,but they may end up not use to being w/ certain monsters depending if they decided to play in the clockwork.

Sat, 01/17/2015 - 16:51

#12

Autofire

You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

This...

Is...

AWESOME!

I would love to be a Gunpuppy. Wait a second...how would that work? Maybe players probably shouldn't play as turrets...that would be dull and you couldn't really pursue running players.

Sat, 01/17/2015 - 17:12

#13

Chaos-Mist

"but they may end up not use

"but they may end up not use to being w/ certain monsters depending if they decided to play in the clockwork." - I think this PVP mode could double over as a way for players to get to know the mobs better.

"I would love to be a Gunpuppy." - Well the spawn points would have to be restricted, because otherwise you could have a full team setting their respawn so they all appear as turrets infront of a path (blocking it).

Also when replying I came up with an idea for another game mode based on this; Hide and Seek.

One team are Knights, the other team are stone-block slimes (with them appearing as stone blocks when at full health). The stone-block slimes have to try and reach an objective without being killed by the patrolling Knights (with certain areas blocked for the Knights to stop them guarding those points instead of searching).