FoV range
Dom, 04/26/2015 - 13:50
I was bored, so I did some more testing.
It appears that FoV range is dependent on the attack speed.
Potential Explanation:
Since FoV attack is *slowed, the hitboxes of the attack are delayed. This is important because the hitboxes are delayed towards the end of the forward movement, instead of the case of Caliburs and Brandishes which have their hitboxes activate towards the beginning of the forward movement (thus having less range). FoV doesn't have any more range, it's just that the range seems farther because of the delayed hitboxes.
Thus, ASI affects the range of FoV regular (and also Brandishes and Caliburs), but this is to quite the minor extent...
The 3rd strike of the ASI+6 FoV has roughly half block less of range than the 3rd strike of ASI-2 FoV. (my test target doesn't hug the obstacle perfectly, and I have to line up half-blocks by eye)
For the hell of it, I also did the test with my LHB. And surprisingly it's also like half a block. So if you notice you often whiff your 3rd strike of the combo, it's probably cuz you got high on ASI. Because that half-block matters more for the Calibur than the FoV.
tl;dr ASI and MSI the everything, cuz range don't matter none.
*EDITED: "delayed" to "slowed" for clarification.
Dom, 04/26/2015 - 20:58
#2
Lionheart Honor Blade. It's that fancy shmancy Leviathan Blade that was given out for free in Homecoming(?) week a couple years ago or something.
No matter how much ASI(well y'know up to the limit) you have, you still have more range due to the delayed hit than a Calibur or Brandish. Between ASI+6 FoV and ASI-2 LHB, between a quarter and half a block difference in range. (I'm not really sure about this number because I didn't specifically test between these two to see the relationship). At the current state of the game, FoV will always have more range on the 2nd and 3rd strikes than Calibur or Brandish (this may change if we can get some ASI-6).
I'm not sure what this is: "the speed resetting the attack sequence too early in combination with the delayed attack?". In any case, I believe you've got it reversed. The speed was reduced, so the hit was delayed, and thus we have more "range". It's not like they purposely delayed the hitboxes, it's because they reduced the speed; it's a consequence of making FoV slower. I don't think people would go through the trouble to specifically go in and make a new attack pattern with delayed strikes.
Yeah... you've got the reasons and results the wrong way round.
Dom, 04/26/2015 - 22:35
#3
Random sidenote, Lionheart Honor Blade is a reskin of the Leviathan. People know the Levi. I honestly didn't know what you meant by LHB, even though I got my own in my armory. I kept thinking some bizarre version of the Wild Hunting Blade.
Lun, 04/27/2015 - 02:18
#4
This is very fascinating! Thanks for figuring it out. May I request a demonstration video? If you are unable to make one, I could try to do so myself. Been a good while since I've made any video for this lovely little game.
Lun, 04/27/2015 - 06:02
#5
agree
I've never noticed that Fang of Vog has different range. And actually I won't be convinced until I observe it myself. But this thread is quite interesting and gives me a lot to think about, so thanks. :)
Lun, 04/27/2015 - 08:18
#6
@Krakob
I dunno about a video. An issue with testing this is that the scuttlebot I use in the Advanced Training Hall as a target doesn't line up perfectly, and sometimes the attack will whiff when I'm sure it should hit (maybe because the scuttlebot isn't lined up, but could be something else). So I have to do a lot of repetitions to get a good sense of roughly where it succeeds and fails.
But for the purposes of demonstrating range, it is clear between ASI+6 LHB and ASI-2 FoV. But, I'll probably be too lazy to make a video.(There may be a better way to test in the GTH, but it's not easily accessible to me. My guild is defaulted so I can't use the GTH.)
I'll just share how I tested ASI+6 LHB and ASI-2 FoV. I'm not exactly sure about the method since I didn't actually write down exactly what method I used. I was just testing for lulz or something... I forgot why I felt like testing or why I considered testing ASI and FoV... but I was in the training hall at the time.
In the ATH, go to the top-right and lure the scuttlebot to the divider.
For ASI+6 LHB: Walk to the left-end of the enclosure and line up against the wall. Do two attack combos and you should generally hit with the 6th attack. Now try varying it slightly further by walking into the entrance (from the lined-up position), and it starts to consistently miss.
For ASI-2 FoV: Walk outside the enclosure and line up against the outside of the room. Do two attack combos and you sometimes might hit (after the first attack combo, you might want to stop to check if you're on path to hit the scuttlebot), but for a higher chance of hitting, move slightly closer before starting.
The best I've gotten for range on ASI-2 FoV is my knight's foot about half a block from the divider. Whatever-ASI LHB always has to touch the divider to hit the scuttlebot.
Lun, 04/27/2015 - 08:23
#7
Ah, I misinterpreted your
Ah, I misinterpreted your postin that case. My bad.
I think a demo video would be very useful as well. I knew that the FOV had more range than the brandishes, but never why
Lun, 04/27/2015 - 10:32
#8
I can access a GTH. In fact I think I'll go try right away! Either way there's bound to be some open guild hall with a training hall available. Just gotta look around enough.
Lun, 04/27/2015 - 17:26
#9
Uhh....
I dunno if it's just me, but I just realized that Brandish sword slashes (at least the 3rd strike) have rectangular hitboxes. I know this because I was derping in Clockworks and I tried my usual thing where I hit a switch two blocks away with my sword, but it didn't work this time.
So, I did a little testing, and between roughly 5 and 30 degrees, the 3rd strike can hit 2 blocks away, but if you attack dead on, it won't. I wonder if the devs know about this, because there are a lot of places in SK where there are switches 2 blocks away that if you were playing with a joystick/controller, you would never be able to hit with a normal 3-hit sword because you can only have 0, 45, 90, 135,etc... degrees. #mousemasterrace
EDIT: I think you can hit a switch two blocks away with a Brandish sword charge, but I'm not sure I did an exact(facing cardinally) test.
I am unsure if this technique would help in on open ground. I have an idea of how to test it, so I'll do that later. (or someone can test for me :D)
I was going to try to look into the hitboxes of 2-hit swords because that piqued my interest, but my internet stopped being happy during a Danger Room and hasn't settled down. So, I'll do this some time later (too).
Mar, 04/28/2015 - 04:06
#10
Works just fine with gamepads. I guess not with keyboard, though.
Mar, 04/28/2015 - 10:14
#11
Mar, 04/28/2015 - 10:44
#12
thanks
Thanks for the interesting discussion, everybody.
Lun, 02/29/2016 - 21:41
#13
Necrooowh. I should rename thread: Statistically Unsound Testing
I find myself bored again, so I did more testing.
I attempted to upload some terrible video that I captured, but apparently .flv isn't recognized by Youtube when it should be.
Soooo... whatever. Here's my results...
Triglav vs. Divine Avenger:
Triglav has 1-2 steps (taps of movement) longer reach than the Divine Avenger.
--Triglav definitely has a smidgen more range than Divine Avenger. I just don't know how to quantify it when hit detection at maximum range varies by about 1 step. I would need to do a tedious amount of testing to more-accurately measure this difference.
--This (1-2 step difference) applies to both Attack Speed Decrease: Medium and Attack Speed Increase: Ultra (what I tested). aka. at the same attack speed, the difference in range between the two swords does not significantly change.
Between ASD: Medium and ASI:Ultra, applicable to both the two heavy swords, there is a difference in reach of roughly half a block for the 2nd strike.
NOTE: Recall that at maximum range, there is variance for hit detection, so if you want to get all statistical on me... My results are probably +/- 1/5 a block of the actual difference in range (based off of my feeling).
Furious Flamberge:
Between ASD: Medium and ASI:Ultra, there is a difference of roughly 3/4 of a block for the 3rd strike.
(bah I wasn't going to test the 2nd strike because I forgot to, but I was too interested)
Between ASD: Medium and ASI:Ultra, there is a difference of roughly 1/2 of a block for the 2rd strike.
I'll do a test focusing on Brandishes/Caliburs sometime later. If I had to guess, there should be such a similar difference, as Flourishes and FoV have a similar difference in range for 3rd and 2nd strike (too lazy to link my FoV results). *(I may have used ASI max when doing my FoV tests back then versus ASI ultra now, so the results may not actually be so similar)
I tested the Triglav and DA because I said I was going to, but never got around to doing it.
I tested the Flamberge because I knew that pseudo-increased-range was a thing for all sword attacks that move the player, but the discussion and Krakob's video kind of implied that it was only for FoV.
Since this Attack Speed relation with range is universal across sword attacks that move the player, there is the potential for the range of Magnuses and Tortofists to also have varied range based on attack speed. I don't feel like testing this at the moment, I'll let it sit for at least a few months.
Sorry, took a hiatus, what is the LHB?
Also, I agree with your results. Having a no ASI FOV made the 3rd hit much more consistent on hitting than the 3rd hit when I used a SSB. I used to test this with skellies in FSC when I went FOV only runs. Third hit would randomly miss. The charge though....beastly
So you are saying that, if the FOV has over a certain amount of ASI, the third delayed hit gets cancelled due to the speed resetting the attack sequence too early in combination with the delayed attack? Maybe delaying the hit was a cheap way of decreasing the attack speed slightly.
Nevertheless, it is a bug, and won't be fixed. As usual.